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Thread: Artis Gilmore

  1. #1
    foretaz
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    Default Artis Gilmore

    the A-train was truly a stud....for those of us that had the chance to see him play, most all would agree he was about as good of a center as has ever played.....unbelievably mild mannered for such a dominating force.....

    this is a very good read with a couple of pacer legends prominently mentioned and quoted....



    http://www.hoopshype.com/articles/gilmore_friedman.htm



    Still waiting for Hall of Fame call
    by David Friedman / July 5, 2005

    Here is a question that is guaranteed to stump your friends: Who is the NCAA Division I career leader in rebounds per game average? After they round up the usual suspects Wilt, Russell, Kareem you can provide a hint: this player's college career ended after Kareem's did. When they give up after you tell them that the answer is not Walton or Shaq, be prepared for some surprised looks when you say, "Artis Gilmore, 22.7 rpg."

    Gilmore led unheralded Jacksonville to the 1970 NCAA Championship game against perennial powerhouse UCLA. Coached by the legendary John Wooden, the Bruins had already won three straight titles en route to a record seven consecutive championships. Gilmore had 19 points and 16 rebounds as Jacksonville gave the Bruins their toughest battle yet in a title game before succumbing 80-69. He was a Consensus All-America 1st Team selection in 1971, but Jacksonville lost a first round NCAA Tournament game to Western Kentucky on a last second shot. Gilmore led Jacksonville to a 48-6 record during those two seasons, averaging 24.3 ppg to go along with his record rebounding average.

    He had an immediate impact upon joining the ABA's Kentucky Colonels for the 1971-72 season, winning Rookie of the Year and MVP honors after ranking tenth in scoring (23.8 ppg) and leading the league with 17.8 rpg, .598 field goal shooting, 3666 minutes played (43.6 mpg) and an ABA record 422 blocked shots (5.0 bpg). Kentucky improved from 44-40 in 1970-71 to a league record 68-16. Gilmore posted virtually identical numbers in the postseason, but a hot-shooting Rick Barry led the New York Nets to a 4-2 upset victory over the Colonels.

    In 1972-73 the Colonels went 56-28 and advanced to the ABA Finals, where they lost in seven games to their arc, the Indiana Pacers Gilmore averaged 22.1 ppg, 17.3 rpg, 5.3 apg and 4.0 bpg for the series. During the regular season, Gilmore again led the ABA in rebounding (17.6 rpg), field goal percentage (.559) and blocks (3.1 bpg) and ranked second in minutes played (3502) and tenth in scoring (20.8 ppg).

    Darnell Hillman, a great shot blocker who played forward and center for the Pacers, will never forget his encounters with Gilmore.

    "If I wanted to be anyone other than Darnell I wanted to be Artis' size and still have my jumping ability. Every time I walked out on the floor with him, I always challenged him as best I could-6-9 versus 7-2. Artis would block my dunk shots all the time and that was the key that really turned me on to go back after him and block his dunks. So that was a rivalry right there between Artis and I."

    Hillman learned the value of preparation and anticipation by playing against Gilmore and practicing against Indiana teammate Mel Daniels, a two-time ABA MVP.

    "I gave away a lot of pounds and inches, so I had to be very clever. That came from playing against Mel in practice.When Artis decided to throw it down, he was going to throw it down and I had to be there to catch it before he really got a full head of steam going to throw it down."

    Daniels, the director of player personnel for the Pacers since 1996, offers this scouting report of Gilmore:

    "He was very efficient, a very good offensive basketball player, could defend, could block shots, run very well, and score on the block. If you look at some of the guys who are in the Hall of Fame, he should definitely be in the Hall of Fame. The guy has proven himself in both leagues."

    Kentucky went 53-31 in 1973-74, sweeping Larry Brown's Carolina Cougars in the first round of the playoffs before being swept by Julius Erving's Nets in the second round. Gilmore led the ABA in rebounding (18.3 rpg), ranked first in minutes (3502) and second in blocked shots (3.4 bpg).

    The Colonels hired Hubie Brown as head coach before the 1974-75 season. Gilmore echoes what teammate Joe Hamilton told this writer at the ABA Reunion: Brown's encyclopedic basketball knowledge and meticulous game planning are the hoops equivalent to the football wizardry of New England Patriots' coach Bill Belichick.

    Gilmore says of Brown, "He was a very detail-oriented coach and as a result when we competed against teams he had statistics and reports about some of the things that were successful against those particular teams. In a sense, he was ahead of his time by having such detailed scouting reports."

    That may not seem like a big deal now, but only a few years earlier Bill Fitch and the Cleveland Cavaliers made expansion draft selections on the basis of statistics found on basketball cards.

    In 1974-75, Gilmore ranked first in minutes (3493), second in rebounding (16.2 rpg), second in field goal percentage (.580), second in blocks (3.1 bpg) and sixth in scoring (23.6 ppg). The Colonels finished with a 58-26 record, including a 22-3 mark in the last 25 games. Kentucky stormed to the title with a 12-3 postseason run. Gilmore ranked first in playoff rebounding (17.6 rpg) and was among the postseason leaders in scoring, field goal percentage and blocked shots. He averaged 25 ppg, 21 rpg and 1.2 bpg in the 4-1 win over Indiana in the ABA Finals. In a game three victory he rang up 41 points and 28 rebounds and in the game five series clincher he had 28 points and 31 rebounds.

    Kentucky's success on the court did not lead to financial stability for the franchise, so owner John Y. Brown sold star forward Dan Issel to the Baltimore Claws for $500,000. The Claws franchise was in much worse shape financially than Kentucky and could not pay the $500,000, so the deal was reworked with the Denver Nuggets paying the $500,000 for Issel and compensating Baltimore by shipping them Dave Robisch.

    Losing Issel was a big blow to the Colonels, who fell to 46-38 in 1975-76. They beat Indiana in a first round mini-series and pushed the 60-24 Nuggets to seven games in the next round. Gilmore had his best professional
    scoring average (24.6 ppg, fourth in the league) and ranked first in rebounding (15.5 rpg), second in field goal percentage (.552), second in minutes (3286) and third in blocks (2.4 bpg).

    The NBA agreed to merge with four of the remaining ABA teams after the 1975-76 season. The owners of the Spirits of St. Louis and Kentucky Colonels received financial settlements in lieu of joining the combined league. A dispersal draft was held to allocate the ABA players whose teams folded and Gilmore was selected first overall by the Chicago Bulls.

    The Bulls started 3-14 in the 1976-77 season, but closed on a 20-4 run to qualify for the playoffs with a 44-38 record. Chicago lost 2-1 to Bill Walton and the Portland Trail Blazers, who went on to win the championship. Gilmore ranked fourth in rebounding (13.0 rpg) and blocked shots (2.5 bpg) and tenth in field goal percentage (.522).

    During Gilmore's Chicago years he perennially ranked among the league leaders in rebounding, blocked shots and field goal percentage and finished as high as ninth in scoring (23.7 ppg in 1978-79), but the Bulls never surrounded Gilmore with enough talent to be a contender.

    Before the 1982-83 season, the Bulls traded Gilmore to the San Antonio Spurs, one of the four ABA teams that joined the NBA during the merger. Now the Spurs had a formidable inside-outside duo with Gilmore and All-NBA guard George Gervin. The Spurs won a then franchise-record 53 games and made it to the Western Conference Finals, losing to the defending champion Lakers 4-2. Gilmore led the league in field goal percentage (.626) while ranking fourth in rebounding (12.0 rpg) and fifth in blocks (2.3 bpg).

    Injuries to Gilmore and point guard Johnny Moore sent the Spurs plummeting to 37-45 in 1983-84. Even in a down year, Gilmore still led the NBA in field goal percentage (.631) and ranked fifth in blocks (2.1 bpg). He
    averaged enough rebounds to rank in the top ten, but did not play in enough games or have enough total rebounds to qualify.

    Gilmore ranked in the top ten in field goal percentage (.623; second), blocks (2.1; seventh) and rebounds (10.4 rpg; tenth) in 1984-85, but the Spurs were knocked off in the first round of the playoffs.

    Age began to take a toll in 1985-86 and for the first time in 15 professional seasons Gilmore failed to average at least 10 rpg. He still managed to rank second in field goal percentage (.618). Gilmore also ranked second in field goal percentage in 1986-87 (.597) as a 37-year-old player in his second to last season.

    Hall of Famer Rick Barry faced Gilmore in the ABA and the NBA and had this to say about the big man:

    "Artis Gilmore was incredibly agile and was just an amazing shot blocker. In fact, I've had him on my radio show a couple times, and I think that he stopped blocking some of the shots because they were calling goaltending on him. I don't think that anybody had ever seen anything like that and they figured that he had to be goaltending, that you can't possibly block somebody's jump shot."

    Although Gilmore is listed in Alex Sachare's 1997 book The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame's 100 Greatest Basketball Players of All-Time, he has not advanced beyond the finalist stage in the induction process (most of the other 99 players profiled in the book who have been retired long enough to be eligible for induction are members of the Hall of Fame).

    When Gilmore finally assumes his rightful place in the Hall of Fame, he will need quite a plaque to detail his accomplishments. Put "Artis Gilmore: Tough, Durable and Consistent" in bold letters at the top and follow it with
    these achievement:

    - NCAA rebounding champion in 1970 and 1971

    - All-time NCAA Division I career rebounding average leader (22.7 rpg)

    - One of five NCAA Division I players with career averages of 20+ ppg and 20+ rpg

    - 1972 ABA MVP and Rookie of the Year

    - ABA regular season single game record 40 rebounds versus New York, 2/3/74

    - Four-time ABA rebounding champion (1972-74, 76)

    - Two-time ABA field goal percentage champion (1972-73)

    - Two-time ABA shot blocking champion (1972-73)

    - 1974 ABA All-Star Game MVP

    - 1975 ABA Playoff MVP

    - Five-time All-ABA 1st Team selection (1972-76)

    - Four-time ABA All-Defensive Team selection (1973-76)

    - Appeared in 670 consecutive ABA/NBA games

    - 11 All-Star selections in 17 ABA/NBA seasons

    - Ranked in the top ten in rebounding in 12 of 17 ABA/NBA seasons

    - Ranked in the top ten in blocked shots in 13 of 17 ABA/NBA seasons

    - Ranked in the top ten in field goal percentage in 15 of 17 ABA/NBA seasons

    - Four-time NBA field goal percentage champion (1981-84)

    - One of seven unanimous selections to the 1997 ABA All-Time Team

    - Ranks first in career ABA/NBA regular season field goal percentage (.582); also holds the NBA (.599) and ABA (.558) career records

    - Ranks third in career ABA/NBA regular season blocked shots (3178)

    - Ranks fifth in career ABA/NBA regular season rebounds (16,330)

    - Ranks 18th in career ABA/NBA regular season points (24,491)

  2. #2
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    The irony of this is that over the weekend I helped my parent clear out stuff from thier house (they are moving) & I came across this giant poster I had of the A-train throwing it down when he was with the Bulls.

    He was always one of my favorite players & it is a shame people don't remember him because IMO he was every bit as good as Ewing & Robinson. Not quite in the Shaq range but when Sam Perkins was asked during the 00 finals if Shaq was the strongest player he'd ever faced he said no, Artis Gilmor was. I think that might not be right but Artis sure had some strength.

    I hope he gets in the hall.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  3. #3
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Wow you played against Shaq and Gilmore?!

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Gilmore was a physically supririor player. He knew his limits better than maybe any player in history. Which is why he was never truly a dominant big man, despite the fact he hardly ever missed.

    He never had any dominant pet moves like every other HOF big man, he wasn't especially quick, he wasn't a great defender, and he never led a team to a championship.

    Gilmore played within himself very well, and he was no doubt an all-star. But was he a cut below Lanier, Malone, Walton, Jabbar, Thurmond, Unseld and Sikma? Definately.

    I'm not sure if he's hall-of-fame worthy, or just an all-star of his era.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    I strongly disagree that Artis was below Lanier & Sikma. I'm taking nothing away from either of these guys but IMO Gilmore was just a much more dominate player. He never had a team around him worth anything in Chicago so he never really had a chance to do anything special in the NBA & by the time he got to San Antonio his knees were shot.

    In Kentucky he had a decent team around him & he went to the ABA finals. Acutally now that I think about it, didn't his team win one ABA crown? I could be wrong there.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  6. #6
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I strongly disagree that Artis was below Lanier & Sikma. I'm taking nothing away from either of these guys but IMO Gilmore was just a much more dominate player. He never had a team around him worth anything in Chicago so he never really had a chance to do anything special in the NBA & by the time he got to San Antonio his knees were shot.

    In Kentucky he had a decent team around him & he went to the ABA finals. Acutally now that I think about it, didn't his team win one ABA crown? I could be wrong there.
    yes....they won a title and played in another couple championships i believe...

    to say that he was below that group is just not an informed opinion....at all...if they all were coming out of college at the same time, u take jabbar and maybe walton ahead of him....and thats it....the man was a stud...period....great on both ends of the floor...

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    I'd take Lanier over Gilmore any day of the week. Lanier was a lot more skilled.

    And don't tell me about "informed" opinions, when you still think Jerry West was a point guard.

    If you think he had a HoF ABA career, fine. I'm speaking based on his NBA performance. I never followed the ABA much at all.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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    foretaz
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I'd take Lanier over Gilmore any day of the week. Lanier was a lot more skilled.

    And don't tell me about "informed" opinions, when you still think Jerry West was a point guard.

    If you think he had a HoF ABA career, fine. I'm speaking based on his NBA performance. I never followed the ABA much at all.

    ur piston homeritis is showing....lanier was not more skilled than gilmore...it would be the other way around....

    and please dont tell me u still havent figured out that west played point guard for a great number of years on the lakers teams....and if ur gonna bring up stuff...get it right...i said he would start as my point guard any day of the week....jerry was probably one of the earliest true 'combo' guards.....but he played the point many years...so get ur facts straight...it appears not only did u not watch gilmore play with the exception of when he was in san antonio but u didnt watch west play either....

  9. #9
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    I remember watching the A-Train. The best word to describe him is "sturdy"

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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    And you're damn right I'd take Lanier over Gilmore. The guy had a ton of basketball skills. He could shoot from 15 feet, he had a nice baby hook, he could pass the ball, if it weren't for Jabbar, Lanier would have been the dominant center for the decade. Gilmore was big and strong, and that was about it. Fine center, but Lanier was a true great.
    I think you've been hammering home too many of Big Feet Bob's Miller Lites.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Sturdy is a good way to describe him.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I'd take Lanier over Gilmore any day of the week. Lanier was a lot more skilled.

    And don't tell me about "informed" opinions, when you still think Jerry West was a point guard.

    If you think he had a HoF ABA career, fine. I'm speaking based on his NBA performance. I never followed the ABA much at all.
    I always considered Bob soft. Now don't get me wrong I thought he was a good center but I just always felt he was a little soft to be considered anything above just a good center.

    Anyway here is the career comparison of Artis vs. Bob.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...submit=Compare

    & here is the career avg. per game. Acutually they are a lot closer than I even remember. Bob was the better scorer by one basket a game & Artis was a better rebounder by two.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...submit=Compare


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Jeez, I guess I never really gave much consideration to Gilmore not being HOF.

    That's surprising, really. IMO, without getting into listing them, he has to be one of the top 10 centers of all time. Where he would rank in that top 10, I don't know.

    As far as West being a PG or an SG, that's really kind of a moot point, isn't it. He played in an era before such labels existed. They just called 'em guards back then, and both of them were expected to score, defend and distribute.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    (thread cleaned of debris)
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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    foretaz
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    (thread cleaned of debris)

  16. #16
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Artis Gilmore

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    Jeez, I guess I never really gave much consideration to Gilmore not being HOF.

    That's surprising, really. IMO, without getting into listing them, he has to be one of the top 10 centers of all time. Where he would rank in that top 10, I don't know.

    As far as West being a PG or an SG, that's really kind of a moot point, isn't it. He played in an era before such labels existed. They just called 'em guards back then, and both of them were expected to score, defend and distribute.
    my top ten...in no particular order

    shaq
    wilt
    kareem
    mikan
    olajuwon
    russell
    gilmore
    ewing
    robinson
    malone

    the only reason i left walton off is the longevity issue...he had some very good years...but most of the others had a much longer period of time where they performed at that high of a level.....but no doubt walton could definitely be argued to be in this group....he probably was the best passing center of all time...

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