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Thread: How about Artest to Hornets

  1. #51
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    Brad and Magloire were picked, IMO, because the coaches thought they were teh best players available.

    If you make the allstar roster, you deserve to be there, IMO.
    When there's a calling for one more PF player, and forgo the center position, you hardly deserve to be there.

    The Jordan reference was to you saying do I believe Brad deserved to be there on those numbers. I don't care if it's MJ, Wilt, or Russell, if they don't put enough good enough numbers then they don't deserve to be there.

    Giving an all-star spot to someone with not enough qualifications, is the affirmative action, not the Jordan reference.

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    When there's a calling for one more PF player, and forgo the center position, you hardly deserve to be there.

    The Jordan reference was to you saying do I believe Brad deserved to be there on those numbers. I don't care if it's MJ, Wilt, or Russell, if they don't put enough good enough numbers then they don't deserve to be there.

    Giving an all-star spot to someone with not enough qualifications, is the affirmative action, not the Jordan reference.

    Who exactly are the allstar centers, in your opinion?

    Shaquille, Yao, Ben, and Illgauskis?

    Those are the only centers I would put above Magloire and Brad. If you say Brad, you have to include Magloire as well. Their numbers are basically identical, give or take. I'm not talking about Magloire's stats in 20 something games. I'm talking about the heatlhy Magloire we saw in 2004.

    Brad and Magloire are all stars. The center position is not what it was a decade ago (Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, Zo, etc). There is supposed to be a certain number of centers picked. It doesn't matter if there are better forwards or not. If Brad and Jamal are the best centers remaining, they deserve to be picked.

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Yeah, whatever happenned to the "Granger is an insurance IF things go wrong with Ron"-policy? Whatever happenned to that? And when was that put forward? Oh yes ... 3 nights ago.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    Please post where Pacers management said that.
    Oh right, that was HERE, but Artest fans.
    Some of us are more than ok with Granger REPLACING Artest

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses
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    You guys need to ignore Diamond Dave.

    He's a freaking anti-artest fanatic..This is another one of his crazy *** trades. Just stop making posts..Everyone involves a bash to Artest or some plot of trading him for dirt and a bag of rocks.

    And I'm not even gonna bother on the post above me..Good lord. Don't ever make a post again..This is as bad as reading some of the garbage over at Indystar.
    I've got a month old unwrapped snickers bar that I'd trade him for.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Please post where Pacers management said that.
    Oh right, that was HERE, but Artest fans.
    Some of us are more than ok with Granger REPLACING Artest
    I wouldn't call Jay an Artestfan and there were more of the "darksiders" that agreed to it.

    I agree Granger is a great insurance policy for Ron, BUT the difference is that I ALSO would have wanted the Pacers to keep Ron even without this insurance, so it's more logical for the "darksiders" to adhere to Granger as a safetybelt than it is for us "Artestjunks".

    I guess it's the real "he's gotta go no matter WHAT!!!"-kind of types, like you, that well want him out "no matter WHAT!!!" and then expect the team to do ... better as this last season? And than also without Reggie frequently bailing us out?

    Still can't believe you want a rookie to replace a DPOTY All-star forward btw that's just irresponsible, look at what happenned this last season when we had a pathetic SF positioning pre-Jackson coming back from suspension.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  6. #56
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses
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    Artest messes up again, which I don't think he will, Then I'm all for trading him.
    Really?

    If you truly believe this, then you should have no problem with those of us who took the same stance toward Ron last offseason (or any offseason that Ron has been here, really), and have stuck to it.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  7. #57
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Artest for Magliore is the dubest trade known to man. It doesn't really make our team better, it just adds a player that isn't really that important to the team we have right now and also adds another player -- in the middle that's going to want playing time. There's a whole new problem.

    Putting myself in Larry's shoes, I see exactly what he's thinking. Keep Ron. Let him make or break HIMSELF. The entire team is not likely to go down like before if he has an episode and Granger is there to step in if Ron doesn't pan out. We can terminate Ron's contract (I believe there is a rule on this) if he engages in further misconduct, so why try trading him for someone we don't really need or someone that really isn't equal value? We have our insurance (Granger), I highly doubt a "brawl" like situation will happen again, so IMO we don't have much to lose in keeping Ron and giving him a chance...

    Let me reword that last sentence, and make sure to save it where you can find it in the future.

    What's the difference between trading Ron for a lesser talent and letting him play, blow up, ruin his career, and have Granger step in? Either way we lose something, but either way we don't lose much. On the other hand, keeping Ron and having him go through the season and beyond trouble free we have a dominant player that makes us a serious championship contender for years to come.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Someone who gets there because there's no deserving candidates is hardly an all-star. He's that little boy that was on the All-star team during your local pee-wee league baseball diamond. Was on the team for the number factor, but just sat in a corner and played with his gum.

    He deserved to be on that team just as much as Edwards deserves to be on this Pacer team.
    I know this was early on the first page, but I wanted to grab this. Because as I recall, Magliore was close to being the best player on the court for the East for a good portion of the game. In fact, I think at one point the announcers theorized that it could be the first time that a bench All-Star won the MVP.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

    I think this would be a great trade - getting PJ Brown would also be fantastic, I've wanted him on this team for a long time. Of course, as has already been noted, the Hornets love the guy so we won't be getting him.

    IndyToad
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by indytoad
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    I know this was early on the first page, but I wanted to grab this. Because as I recall, Magliore was close to being the best player on the court for the East for a good portion of the game. In fact, I think at one point the announcers theorized that it could be the first time that a bench All-Star won the MVP.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

    I think this would be a great trade - getting PJ Brown would also be fantastic, I've wanted him on this team for a long time. Of course, as has already been noted, the Hornets love the guy so we won't be getting him.

    IndyToad
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    Well, as it turned out, a bench player DID win the MVP that game. Shaquille O'Neal was the MVP that game, and did not start(Yao did).

    But yes, Magloire played extremely well.

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by tora tora
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    I'll take Foster over Magloire anyday.

    I fully agree. Magloire is not a better defender then either Foster, or DD.
    In 30.6 min. he ave. 8.9 boards, and 11.7 points. This on a really bad team. He's 6'11", and 259.
    By comparison Foster averaged 9.0 boards, and 7.0 points in 26.1 min., extend this to the same playing time, and you get 10.6 boards, and 8.3 points on a far better team.
    Dale averaged 8.9 boards, and 6.9 points in 29.2 min. while playing with the pacers last season.

    I'd say Magloire is comparable, but not better then either Foster, or DD.
    We'd be giving up Artest for nothing. If we want to do that, just cut him instead of Cro with the Amnesty waiver.

  11. #61
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    Talking Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    I wouldn't call Jay an Artestfan and there were more of the "darksiders" that agreed to it.

    I agree Granger is a great insurance policy for Ron, BUT the difference is that I ALSO would have wanted the Pacers to keep Ron even without this insurance, so it's more logical for the "darksiders" to adhere to Granger as a safetybelt than it is for us "Artestjunks".

    I guess it's the real "he's gotta go no matter WHAT!!!"-kind of types, like you, that well want him out "no matter WHAT!!!" and then expect the team to do ... better as this last season? And than also without Reggie frequently bailing us out?

    Still can't believe you want a rookie to replace a DPOTY All-star forward btw that's just irresponsible, look at what happenned this last season when we had a pathetic SF positioning pre-Jackson coming back from suspension.

    Regards,

    Mourning

    Since he DIDN"T PLAY, why WOULDN"T we be better next year with SOMEONE REPLACING HIM???????? (Reggie, though excellent, was still a below average 2 guard OVER ALL)
    A Rookie, a college sophomore, a freaking high school JV player. All would be better for this TEAM than that pathetic excuse for a NBA player.
    The "he's gotta go no matter what" stems from his ACTIONS that affect TEAM. Not from his on court skills.
    Some of you may learn the value of that someday. Some will not.
    Regards back at ya.

  12. #62
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Since he DIDN"T PLAY, why WOULDN"T we be better next year with SOMEONE REPLACING HIM???????? (Reggie, though excellent, was still a below average 2 guard OVER ALL)
    A Rookie, a college sophomore, a freaking high school JV player. All would be better for this TEAM than that pathetic excuse for a NBA player.
    The "he's gotta go no matter what" stems from his ACTIONS that affect TEAM. Not from his on court skills.
    Some of you may learn the value of that someday. Some will not.
    Regards back at ya.
    Well, guess you weren't watching the last months of the regular season... without Reggie chances are we wouldn't have even been in the play-offs this last season, so don't give me that crap about him beying a below average 2 guard "OVERALL", you really seem to have a strange comprehension what "average" let stand "below average" is.
    It's undenieable to me that this team has lost significant quality the day Reggie retired. It's not always in the scoringnumbers (though it was largely the last few months) that show you who is a good player or not. Tying down defences for instance is also a pretty good way to indicate other teams thought that Reggie still could lighten your team up. And that loss will be replaced partially by the current players on the team further developing and well the "new guy" you want for Artest. But, let's not forget other teams don't sit back either and other teams do improve themselves aswell by either new aquisitions or by players growth or worse by both (San Antonio? Detroit the past few years?). No WAY we are going to bridge that gap if we do what you suggest.

    And well... you said it yourself Ron wasn't on the court this whole season, as he damnwell is required to be as a pro, so that means his value is low add to that the previous "incidents" and then you see his value in trades drop to rock bottom. What do you prefer? A player that is one of the best on his position and generally regarded as one of the top-15-20 players, one of the premiere lock down defensive players in the league OR do you prefer someone who comes in shoots say 10-12 a game, is a below average defender and probably makes more? You tell me? And don't give me this "Ron did nothing this year", because when he DID play this year he was more then just impressive and it's cheap because the incident which happenned in Detroit was a once in xxx-years incident you can't seriously expect that to repeat itself? ... oh waite .. you probably are .

    But, ok, you are Mr. Know-it-all, so why would you even listen to me, because I as "Ron Lover" know nothing about teamplay, no sir, I don't value that either .... whatever

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  13. #63
    foretaz
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    save ur breath mourning my friend....look at what ur dealing with....think about that...then u will realize ur wasting ur time and hes simply not worth it....

    you cant rationalize with an irrational person....

    regards,

    taz

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Well, guess you weren't watching the last months of the regular season... without Reggie chances are we wouldn't have even been in the play-offs this last season, so don't give me that crap about him beying a below average 2 guard "OVERALL", you really seem to have a strange comprehension what "average" let stand "below average" is.
    It's undenieable to me that this team has lost significant quality the day Reggie retired. It's not always in the scoringnumbers (though it was largely the last few months) that show you who is a good player or not. Tying down defences for instance is also a pretty good way to indicate other teams thought that Reggie still could lighten your team up. And that loss will be replaced partially by the current players on the team further developing and well the "new guy" you want for Artest. But, let's not forget other teams don't sit back either and other teams do improve themselves aswell by either new aquisitions or by players growth or worse by both (San Antonio? Detroit the past few years?). No WAY we are going to bridge that gap if we do what you suggest.

    And well... you said it yourself Ron wasn't on the court this whole season, as he damnwell is required to be as a pro, so that means his value is low add to that the previous "incidents" and then you see his value in trades drop to rock bottom. What do you prefer? A player that is one of the best on his position and generally regarded as one of the top-15-20 players, one of the premiere lock down defensive players in the league OR do you prefer someone who comes in shoots say 10-12 a game, is a below average defender and probably makes more? You tell me? And don't give me this "Ron did nothing this year", because when he DID play this year he was more then just impressive and it's cheap because the incident which happenned in Detroit was a once in xxx-years incident you can't seriously expect that to repeat itself? ... oh waite .. you probably are .

    But, ok, you are Mr. Know-it-all, so why would you even listen to me, because I as "Ron Lover" know nothing about teamplay, no sir, I don't value that either .... whatever

    Regards,

    Mourning

    Hard to get through that mismash of ideas, but here goes:
    Reg finished strong and won some games for us with big shots. But here's some things that obviously you know nothing about. 1/2 the game is DEFENSE, and Reg just can't play much of it anymore. That means we got scorched by lots of opposing 2 guards. But then that doesn't count right? Just the shots he made? Oh, yeh, he had the lowest % 3 pt shooting of his CAREER, but he's still the best right? Or can't you comprehend such things?

    SO according to you we bridge the widening(?) gap with other teams by sticking with a 40 y/o 2 guard for HOW LONG??????????? YOU say it's not all in the scoring numbers when in fact that's pretty much all Reg gave us at this point in his career. As for stretching the defense, he's not double teamed so he's guarded by ONE player. Last time I checked, most players ARE guarded by ONE other player, so where's the factor? Or is this too tough?

    Can't make much sense of what you are saying about Artest so I'll just say: I prefer a player that doesn't destroy his team with his selfish play and desire to be "the man". Notice I didn't even mention 11/19? I was done with that idiot BEFORE he showed what a total *** he really is. Oh, that's right, you just care about "how good he is".

    Continue to live in LA LA land. You fit right in. Disregards.

  15. #65
    foretaz
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Hard to get through that mismash of ideas, but here goes:
    Reg finished strong and won some games for us with big shots. But here's some things that obviously you know nothing about. 1/2 the game is DEFENSE, and Reg just can't play much of it anymore. That means we got scorched by lots of opposing 2 guards. But then that doesn't count right? Just the shots he made? Oh, yeh, he had the lowest % 3 pt shooting of his CAREER, but he's still the best right? Or can't you comprehend such things?

    SO according to you we bridge the widening(?) gap with other teams by sticking with a 40 y/o 2 guard for HOW LONG??????????? YOU say it's not all in the scoring numbers when in fact that's pretty much all Reg gave us at this point in his career. As for stretching the defense, he's not double teamed so he's guarded by ONE player. Last time I checked, most players ARE guarded by ONE other player, so where's the factor? Or is this too tough?

    Can't make much sense of what you are saying about Artest so I'll just say: I prefer a player that doesn't destroy his team with his selfish play and desire to be "the man". Notice I didn't even mention 11/19? I was done with that idiot BEFORE he showed what a total *** he really is. Oh, that's right, you just care about "how good he is".

    Continue to live in LA LA land. You fit right in. Disregards.
    the gross arrogance and name calling are sure fire ways to give credibility to anything u say....

  16. #66

    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    I have a certain admiration for Diamond Dave's ability to argue with such great passion.

    After having argued the P's ought to trade their first round pick to LA for a chance to dump Jon Bender, he now wants to replace Ron Artest with his new golden boy Danny Granger, our 17th pick.

    Anybody else see the irony in this new trade scheme which by the way is a really bad idea?

  17. #67
    foretaz
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    I have a certain admiration for Diamond Dave's ability to argue with such great passion.

    After having argued the P's ought to trade their first round pick to LA for a chance to dump Jon Bender, he now wants to replace Ron Artest with his new golden boy Danny Granger, our 17th pick.

    Anybody else see the irony in this new trade scheme which by the way is a really bad idea?
    just makes us appreciate the competent people we have running the franchise that much more....and hopefully dd keeps his day job....though i would say he seems to have all the qualifications to run the raptors....or maybe even the clipps

  18. #68
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    "SO according to you we bridge the widening(?) gap with other teams by sticking with a 40 y/o 2 guard for HOW LONG??????????? YOU say it's not all in the scoring numbers when in fact that's pretty much all Reg gave us at this point in his career. As for stretching the defense, he's not double teamed so he's guarded by ONE player. Last time I checked, most players ARE guarded by ONE other player, so where's the factor? Or is this too tough?"

    WHERE did I EVER say that? You can argue all you want on Reggie, BUT you just can not deny with a straight face that by losing him we do loose certain aspects in the game and thus the gap with other elite teams will grow if we wouldn't do anything But letting go of Reggie. As I stated we will probably grow, because long not everyone on our team has reached its full potential yet, BUT that's also the case with most other serious contenders aswell (San Antonio, Detroit, Phoenix).
    Add to this that we won't be able to sign a top free agent to close the gap, while forinstance San Antonio is and the gap gets even greater.

    Your solution of getting, let's stay positive here, a 11-14 point a game player for Artest might if we are lucky make up for the loss of Reggie (still quite a big IF if you ask me, but ok).

    So, that puts us about break even, again if we look at it positively, ok than we add a rookie, who is going to do great, but he is still a rookie and surely you must have heard of the "rookiewall" (sp?) and has, offcourse, NO playoffs experience, so how is this going to put us over the top again?

    Ron has been a more then serious "nuisance"(sp?), but I'll gladly take the chance on him this season, we've seen basically the worst that can happen and don't preach to me that that is going to happen again, but ok, fair is fair you were fed up with him BEFORE the brawl.
    And WHY do I take the chance on him? Because I believe that Ron IS an important factor on both ends of the floor and DOES at the very least give us that extra lift qualitywise that MIGHT at the very least put us VERY close to going over the top, while the player swap you want won't, not now and not next year, we might aswell start rebuilding if we pursui (sp?) your plan.
    Yes, there certainly is a risk in my option aswell, but when you want to reach the top and get over it you will have to take risks, otherwise your just a top team without serious championship aspirations, so I'll gladly take the risk. That's the difference between us.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

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