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Thread: How about Artest to Hornets

  1. #26
    foretaz
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    new orleans has clearly stated.....very clearly stated.....in very non-posturing tones, that:

    pj brown is not leaving....period....

    so forgetting all the other stuff.....theres nothing really to discuss when it comes to a proposed deal that involves pj brown leaving the hornets....cause hes not leaving......does the untouchable word mean anything?

    youd be just as good discussing a trade involving lebron....some things just arent happening

  2. #27
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Damn, why do they Hornets have to be so bad?

    I would have no problem trading Ron for Magloire, if we could also get a solid vet who plays defense at the SF spot in return. Right now, I'm not seeing that guy on their roster.

    I don't care how much I want Ron off this team, I don't want to head into the season with a rookie as our only starting quality SF. Get me a Posey type player, or maybe even slightly worse than a Posey, and it's a done deal.

    We may as well throw out the Foster-for-Brown portion of the deal, though, that would never happen.

    Actually, I'm not sure the Hornets would want Ron anyway. If you are looking to rebuild, do you build around a dependable center who is less talented than Ron, or a unreliable forward as talented as Ron? I think they pick the center.
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    You couldn't be more wrong.

    Brad Miller averaged 13.1 points, 8.3 rebounds, 0.6 blocks, and shot and shot 49.3% from the field in 73 games in his 2002-2003 allstar season with the Pacers.

    In his 2003-2004 allstar season Magloire averaged 13.6 points, 10.3 rebounds, 1 block, and shot 47.3% from the field in ALL 82 GAMES.

    Tell me how Miller's numbers were "better."

    In the future, please research your statistics before you make outrageous claims such as that.

    Your's or anyone's personal opinion about Jamal Magloire being an allstar means absolutely nothing. I could sit here all day and say he was the the most deserving person to make the team while you say he shouldn't have been there at all. Both opinions mean nothing. At the end of the day, he was an allstar. The fact that the coaches selected him means that he deserved to be there. Magloire played EVERY GAME in 2003-2004.
    Miller put up those numbers averaging less mins. per game then Magloire. If you put them at equal mins. per game, Miller averaged 14.4pts 11.3rbs and 2.9assists to Magloire 13.6pts 10.3rbs. and .8assists

    Take those per 48mins., and Miller averages 20.3pts 15.95rbs. 4.09assits.
    Magloire would of averaged 19.2pts 14.5rbs and 1.13assists.

    Better numbers? Yes he did. Might want to make sure each are on level playing fields when you compare numbers.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Well only defensive sf they have is George Lynch.

    Another version that works capwise is.

    Artest and Pollard for Magloire, Lynch (1yr on contract) and a future #1.

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Miller put up those numbers averaging less mins. per game then Magloire. If you put them at equal mins. per game, Miller averaged 14.4pts 11.3rbs and 2.9assists to Magloire 13.6pts 10.3rbs. and .8assists

    Take those per 48mins., and Miller averages 20.3pts 15.95rbs. 4.09assits.
    Magloire would of averaged 19.2pts 14.5rbs and 1.13assists.

    Better numbers? Yes he did. Might want to make sure each are on level playing fields when you compare numbers.

    Per 48 minutes is the most useless statistic in the history of NBA basketball. No player is ever going to play 48 minutes a game, so its a meaningless statistic. If you're using 48 minutes to "prove" one player is better than the other, you don't have much of a case.

    If a player just plays 2 minutes a game and averages 2 points, you can put a spin on it and say "hey, if this guy played 48 minutes, he'd average 48 points....therefore he's the best"

    The only stats that matter are the ones that were recorded. Magloires 03-04 allstar stats are slightly better than Brad's 02-03 allstar stats.

    It doesnt matter anyway. Magloire and Miller were both picked to be allstars. Therefore, they both deserved it. Yours or anyones opinion means nothing. Personal opinions don't determine who "deserves" to be an allstar or not. If the coaches think enough of them to pick them, they deserve to be there.

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    Per 48 minutes is the most useless statistic in the history of NBA basketball. No player is ever going to play 48 minutes a game, so its a meaningless statistic. If you're using 48 minutes to "prove" one player is better than the other, you don't have much of a case.

    If a player just plays 2 minutes a game and averages 2 points, you can put a spin on it and say "hey, if this guy played 48 minutes, he'd average 48 points....therefore he's the best"

    The only stats that matter are the ones that were recorded. Magloires 03-04 allstar stats are slightly better than Brad's 02-03 allstar stats.

    It doesnt matter anyway. Magloire and Miller were both picked to be allstars. Therefore, they both deserved it. Yours or anyones opinion means nothing. Personal opinions don't determine who "deserves" to be an allstar or not. If the coaches think enough of them to pick them, they deserve to be there.
    Obviously you missed the stats when they were both at 34mins a game. Either way he put up better numbers per min, per five min, per ten min, per thirty min, per forty-eight min. Better is better, and he did.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00
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    While most think Ron is a lock to be here , I don't. Adding Granger , in my way of thinking makes trading Artest a more likely occurance.
    It absolutely astounds me that a lot of people here seem to overlook the fact that management was eager to trade Ron last summer after his behavior during the ECFs (that on top of everything else). And then 11/19 happens, followed by a year-long suspension and voilà! "Bird has his heart set on giving him another chance?!?!" Please put down the crackpipe, people.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Maybe they are not as high on Ron as they seem to be but they always said that they would only trade Ron for a top talent, and I don't see that in Magloire.

    I don't want to loose Ron, I don't know why, but as some other people here, I love this guy.

  9. #34
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    Talking Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    Done, Done, and Done. I'll buy them the plane tickets.
    I'll greet them at the airport.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac
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    Horrible trade, and you think starting a rookie at SF will get us to the championship? Why do people on here continue to make trades that make our team worse, what do you want us not to win.

    Because getting Artest off this team IS a winning move.

  11. #36
    foretaz
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Because getting Artest off this team IS a winning move.
    hmmm....just a hunch, but based on this, im guessing u havent been the gm of too many winning teams....

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    It absolutely astounds me that a lot of people here seem to overlook the fact that management was eager to trade Ron last summer after his behavior during the ECFs (that on top of everything else). And then 11/19 happens, followed by a year-long suspension and voilà! "Bird has his heart set on giving him another chance?!?!" Please put down the crackpipe, people.
    Same old **** from you just a different offseason

  13. #38
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    hmmm....just a hunch, but based on this, im guessing u havent been the gm of too many winning teams....
    Ya know at this point I'm ready to proclaim Reggie Miller as the most over-rated piece of garbage that ever played.

    Looking back on it, he never had anything to do with our success. The only reason the Pacers made it to the ECF in 94 and 95, then in 98, and the Finals in 2000 was because of Ron Artest. Without him it would not have mattered if Miller scored 100, because the play of Ron Artest is the only way the Indiana Pacers win. From the beginning to the end. Even after Artest's body has long been buried, it will be his ghost that haunts the fieldhouse that allows the Pacers to win.

    In fact it was just that old rust anchor Reggie, that held the Mighty Artest from defeating the Pistons. Well that and the demon from the underworld Stern.
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  14. #39
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    You guys need to ignore Diamond Dave.

    He's a freaking anti-artest fanatic..This is another one of his crazy *** trades. Just stop making posts..Everyone involves a bash to Artest or some plot of trading him for dirt and a bag of rocks.

    And I'm not even gonna bother on the post above me..Good lord. Don't ever make a post again..This is as bad as reading some of the garbage over at Indystar.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Yeah, whatever happenned to the "Granger is an insurance IF things go wrong with Ron"-policy? Whatever happenned to that? And when was that put forward? Oh yes ... 3 nights ago.

    Regards,

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  16. #41
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses
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    You guys need to ignore Diamond Dave.

    He's a freaking anti-artest fanatic..This is another one of his crazy *** trades. Just stop making posts..Everyone involves a bash to Artest or some plot of trading him for dirt and a bag of rocks.
    Which Diamond Dave.

    Oh it doesn't matter.

    A bag of rocks, eh? I think I like this deal, those rocks have a serious reputation for leading. They are solid vets, and I for one would like some maturity out of our small forward spot.
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  17. #42
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Yeah, whatever happenned to the "Granger is an insurance IF things go wrong with Ron"-policy? Whatever happenned to that? And when was that put forward? Oh yes ... 3 nights ago.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    Oh, I was never on board for that. No way does drafting Danny Granger somehow make me feel safe with Ron Artest.
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Obviously you missed the stats when they were both at 34mins a game. Either way he put up better numbers per min, per five min, per ten min, per thirty min, per forty-eight min. Better is better, and he did.

    Well, if you want to take that stance....then check this out.

    Brad and Jamal were both allstars in 2003-2004, Magloire with the Hornets, Brad with the Kings.

    Brad averaged 14.1 points and 10.3 rebounds in 36.4 minutes.

    Magloire averaged 13.6 points and 10.3 rebounds in 33.9 minutes.

    Using your method, had Magloire played in 36.4 minutes as Brad did, he would have averaged 14.6 points, and 11.05 rebounds.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    That clearly states that Magloire would have had better statistics had he had Brad Millers minutes. This is from the SAME season. Not to mention Magloire played in EVERY GAME that season. I've basically just used your little formula to show that by taking your approach, Magloire was a better player than Brad in 2004 when they were both allstars. If you don't believe Magloire deserved to be there, than I don't guess you should believe that Brad did either.

    I guess you have to say that Magloire is the better player now. I mean, his stats are better when they are both for 36.4 minutes, right?

    Again, it's meaningless. They were both allstars and deserved to be there.
    Saying that someone doesn't deserve to be there is meaningless. All that means anything is the fact the coaches picked them.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    Which Diamond Dave.

    Oh it doesn't matter.

    A bag of rocks, eh? I think I like this deal, those rocks have a serious reputation for leading. They are solid vets, and I for one would like some maturity out of our small forward spot.
    If we want Maturity, Why not put Larry Bird there?

    Why trade the best SF and probably a top 3-4 player in the game today..For a guy like Magloire? I realize Magloire is a great Center..But we have a glut of centers as it is..If Artest messes up again, which I don't think he will, Then I'm all for trading him. But as it is right now, I'm not about to trade away our best player when we are on the verge of a championship season. If Granger develops into the player everyone says he's going to be, Then I can see us trading Ron in the future when he asks for alot of money.

    Alot of people on here seem to think as long as Ron Artest is in a pacers uniform, We can't win a championship..Well I'm pretty much exactly the opposite of that. Sure the guy is a little crazy, But I think he's going to improve after being suspended for so long. I'm not about to lose out on a championship season just because there is a small chance Ron Artest could mess up again. The worst that could happen is a few tech fouls..Rasheed gets those all the time..But you don't see the Detroit fanbase screaming trade Rasheed.

    Bottom line, Ron Artest brings intensity, skill, defense, and offense to the table. No other player in the league is as talented an all around player as Ron is. Besides, I don't think there is anything Artest can do that will result in a season long suspension. On top of that, If Prince gives Artest fits next year in the ECFs..We always have Granger to fall back on and use against him. Think about it..We don't even need another low post scoring option unless it's coming off the bench.

    And as for the ECFs a year ago..That was one big acting job by Detroit.

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    Well, if you want to take that stance....then check this out.

    Brad and Jamal were both allstars in 2003-2004, Magloire with the Hornets, Brad with the Kings.

    Brad averaged 14.1 points and 10.3 rebounds in 36.4 minutes.

    Magloire averaged 13.6 points and 10.3 rebounds in 33.9 minutes.

    Using your method, had Magloire played in 36.4 minutes as Brad did, he would have averaged 14.6 points, and 11.05 rebounds.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    That clearly states that Magloire would have had better statistics had he had Brad Millers minutes. This is from the SAME season. Not to mention Magloire played in EVERY GAME that season. I've basically just used your little formula to show that by taking your approach, Magloire was a better player than Brad in 2004 when they were both allstars. If you don't believe Magloire deserved to be there, than I don't guess you should believe that Brad did either.

    I guess you have to say that Magloire is the better player now. I mean, his stats are better when they are both for 36.4 minutes, right?

    Again, it's meaningless. They were both allstars and deserved to be there.
    Saying that someone doesn't deserve to be there is meaningless. All that means anything is the fact the coaches picked them.

    Like I said earlier this week, it's pretty much Affirmative Action at the pro-basketball level, which I'm against at any level.

    If you paint that picture for Michael Jordan, I'm going to hold the stance that he didn't deserve to be there.

    I might be mistaken, but I believe in 03-04 Brad was voted in by the fans. That's a whole different discussion entirely, but has major impact on who does/doesn't deserve to be there. Being picked by coaches means you play to be there, being voted in means your liked enough for people to want to see you there.

  21. #46
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses
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    If we want Maturity, Why not put Larry Bird there?

    Why trade the best SF and probably a top 3-4 player in the game today..For a guy like Magloire? I realize Magloire is a great Center..But we have a glut of centers as it is..If Artest messes up again, which I don't think he will, Then I'm all for trading him. But as it is right now, I'm not about to trade away our best player when we are on the verge of a championship season. If Granger develops into the player everyone says he's going to be, Then I can see us trading Ron in the future when he asks for alot of money.

    Alot of people on here seem to think as long as Ron Artest is in a pacers uniform, We can't win a championship..Well I'm pretty much exactly the opposite of that. Sure the guy is a little crazy, But I think he's going to improve after being suspended for so long. I'm not about to lose out on a championship season just because there is a small chance Ron Artest could mess up again. The worst that could happen is a few tech fouls..Rasheed gets those all the time..But you don't see the Detroit fanbase screaming trade Rasheed.

    Bottom line, Ron Artest brings intensity, skill, defense, and offense to the table. No other player in the league is as talented an all around player as Ron is. Besides, I don't think there is anything Artest can do that will result in a season long suspension. On top of that, If Prince gives Artest fits next year in the ECFs..We always have Granger to fall back on and use against him. Think about it..We don't even need another low post scoring option unless it's coming off the bench.

    And as for the ECFs a year ago..That was one big acting job by Detroit.
    1) If Bird could suit up, obviously he would go there.

    2) I hope you're right, because if Artest can keep it together then he is a top 5 player. I've always said he was, but he has let me down too many times.

    3) I don't know how you can say that the chance of him screwing up is small. He has had issues every single season he has been in the league, thats why Chicago dumped him off for Jalen and Travis.

    4) It would not take much for Ron next year to get a life long suspension. He will be watched like no other player in history. One broken camera, one flipping off of the crowd, one fight that he starts and escalates into a bench clearer will result in a season to life long suspension IMO.

    5) If you're admitting that Prince gives Artest problems, then why should we not get a player who isn't bothered by the starting small forward of the team who has put us out 2 years in a row?
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  22. #47
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Like I said earlier this week, it's pretty much Affirmative Action at the pro-basketball level, which I'm against at any level.

    If you paint that picture for Michael Jordan, I'm going to hold the stance that he didn't deserve to be there.

    I might be mistaken, but I believe in 03-04 Brad was voted in by the fans. That's a whole different discussion entirely, but has major impact on who does/doesn't deserve to be there. Being picked by coaches means you play to be there, being voted in means your liked enough for people to want to see you there.
    You are mistaken, Brad was a reserve. Players with an * were starters.

    2004 WESTERN CONFERENCE ALL-STARS

    Head Coach: Flip Saunders (Minnesota)

    Player (Team) Pos. Ht. Wt. All-Star Selections
    *Kobe Bryant (L.A. Lakers) G 6-6 220 6
    *Tim Duncan (San Antonio) F 7-0 260 6
    *Steve Francis (Houston) G 6-3 200 3
    *Kevin Garnett (Minnesota) F 6-11 240 7
    *Yao Ming (Houston) C 7-6 310 2
    Ray Allen (Seattle) G 6-5 205 4
    Sam Cassell (Minnesota)** G 6-3 185 1
    Andrei Kirilenko (Utah)** F 6-9 225 1
    Brad Miller (Sacramento) C 7-0 261 2
    Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas) F/C 7-0 245 3
    Shaquille O’Neal (L.A. Lakers) C 7-1 340 11
    Peja Stojakovic (Sacramento) F 6-10 229 3

    I agree that there is some affirmitive action(which I also disagree with at any level, basketball..etc) in the decision. I just will not hold that against any player picked. I just believe that any player picked is not at fault about the circumstances in which they were picked. If they're there, they deserve to be, IMO.

  23. #48
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Like I said earlier this week, it's pretty much Affirmative Action at the pro-basketball level, which I'm against at any level.

    If you paint that picture for Michael Jordan, I'm going to hold the stance that he didn't deserve to be there.

    I might be mistaken, but I believe in 03-04 Brad was voted in by the fans. That's a whole different discussion entirely, but has major impact on who does/doesn't deserve to be there. Being picked by coaches means you play to be there, being voted in means your liked enough for people to want to see you there.

    You are wrong on this, Brad was selected by the coaches.
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  24. #49
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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    I agree that there is some affirmitive action(which I also disagree with at any level, basketball..etc) in the decision. I just will not hold that against any player picked. I just believe that any player picked is not at fault about the circumstances in which they were picked. If they're there, they deserve to be, IMO.

    I'm not holding it against him. He's an above average center, no doubt about it, but he's NOT all-star caliber.

    If you don't believe in affirmative action, then there's no way you can say that people deserve to be there, just because they're selected. That's the whole point of the action, to deversify a workplace by lowering standards to make sure a certain number of minorities are there.

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    Default Re: How about Artest to Hornets

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    I'm not holding it against him. He's an above average center, no doubt about it, but he's NOT all-star caliber.

    If you don't believe in affirmative action, then there's no way you can say that people deserve to be there, just because they're selected. That's the whole point of the action, to deversify a workplace by lowering standards to make sure a certain number of minorities are there.

    I was referring to Jordan being picked. That was clearly "affirmitive action." It wasn't HIS fault though, so I'm not going to hold it against him.

    Brad and Magloire were picked, IMO, because the coaches thought they were teh best players available.

    If you make the allstar roster, you deserve to be there, IMO.

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