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Thread: Pacers not in free agent market

  1. #1
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Pacers not in free agent market

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...TS04/507010442

    July 1, 2005

    Pacers not in free agent market
    They won't go after available big-name players because team is over the salary cap.

    By Mike Wells
    mike.wells@indystar.com

    Don't expect to hear the names Michael Redd or Ray Allen, the top two players on the free agent market, linked to the Indiana Pacers during the negotiating period, which begins today.

    It's not that the Pacers don't like them. They can't afford them.

    The Pacers are over the NBA salary cap. They only have the midlevel exception, around $5million a year, and a $1.6 million exception to spend on free agents. Free agent signings cannot begin until July 22.

    Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said the team's first priority is to re-sign its own free agents -- Dale Davis, James Jones and John Edwards. Jones and Edwards are restricted free agents, meaning the Pacers can match any offer up to the midlevel exception. Neither player is expected to get that type of offer.

    "I like to try to take care of our own guys before we go on the outside looking," Walsh said. "It's different for us this summer because we know we can go out and play right now and be competitive. There are teams that have to sign people just to put enough players on the court."

    Davis played an important role in the Pacers making the playoffs. He was signed March 4, the day after forward Jermaine O'Neal went down for 22 games with a sprained right shoulder. Davis, who played his first nine seasons here, started all 38 games after rejoining the team.

    "Indiana is definitely at the top of the list," Davis' agent, Chubby Wells, said Thursday. "Hopefully we can get something worked out."

    The Pacers, who have 13 players under contract for next season, have some leeway for possible trades because of their depth. Backup center Scot Pollard likely will be mentioned in trade rumors because he is entering the final year of his contract.

    Walsh said the Pacers don't need to make drastic changes, just a tweak here and there.

    Ron Artest, suspended for most of last season, will return, and the Pacers are hoping Jonathan Bender, the fifth pick in 1999, can come back from injury.

    "I think we're pretty well covered at each position," Walsh said. "I think we have a good team coming back. Drafting Danny Granger made us a lot better. You can certainly get better through signings, but also through trades. We'll explore all of them."

    Granger is a perimeter player who could see time at three positions. But the Pacers still might try to acquire a veteran 3-point shooter through a trade or free agency. Stephen Jackson and Fred Jones, the team's top two shooting guards, aren't considered premier long-range shooters.

    The Pacers could exercise a clause in the new collective bargaining agreement that allows them a one-time option of releasing a player to avoid paying the luxury tax on that salary.

    Forward Austin Croshere could be a candidate. The Pacers still would be responsible for the remaining two years of Croshere's salary of about $18.4 million. Croshere is the team's second highest-paid player but averaged only 8.9 points and 5.1 rebounds last season.

    "I don't know right now. Once we get going through the summer, we'll see," Pacers president Larry Bird said. "Our owners don't want to go over the tax; that's very clear. Austin has value to this team and he works hard and does the right things. It would be tough to lose a kid like that."

    New York's Allan Houston and Dallas' Michael Finley reportedly will be released by their teams to avoid the luxury tax on their salaries. Walsh said teams can wait until the Oct. 1 deadline to decide if they want to cut a player.

    "You can take a chance with your money by waiting to see who's going to be released," Walsh said. "You want to leave yourself some flexibility just in case there are some players out there you may be interested in signing."
    ----------------------

    The article kind of belies the article title if you ask me.

  2. #2
    Formerly PacerFanInAZ Cactus Jax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Resigning John Edwards... if he's back on the team, he must have naughty pictures of Bird and/or Walsh.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  3. #3

    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanInAZ
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    Resigning John Edwards... if he's back on the team, he must have naughty pictures of Bird and/or Walsh.
    Thats what I was thinking, he couldn't even help when we were down to 6 players after the brawl
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
    Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

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    Member bread's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Please let that be a typo or DW just trying to be nice by including Edwards' name in that group. How in the world could re-signing him be a priority??? The guy is the definition of a stiff. If we re-sign him only to put him in the NBDL or the IL I'll be pissed.


    We could easily draft someone in the 2nd round next year that's as bad as he is.

  5. #5
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by bread
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    Please let that be a typo or DW just trying to be nice by including Edwards' name in that group. How in the world could re-signing him be a priority??? The guy is the definition of a stiff. If we re-sign him only to put him in the NBDL or the IL I'll be pissed.


    We could easily draft someone in the 2nd round next year that's as bad as he is.
    Truth be told the same things were said about Brezac on here. Now he's doing pretty well starting for Charlotte. If the Pacers want to keep Edwards I guess they have reason.

  6. #6
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    The Pacers are never really 'in' the free agent market as far as big name FA's go. It is not the modus operandi of the organization. Re-signing their own has always taken priority.

    That said...
    That doesn't mean they wouldn't entertain a trade for one of those names if their original team wants to do a sign and trade and the Pacers feel it is fair (I'm sure that some of us would jump at some things the org would pass on tho).

    WARNING: Dark thoughts appear below

    And more importantly (to me)... Edwards?
    Geeez... I thought maybe the team would've learned something about wasting roster spots on players that are incapable or unwilling to contribute (for whatever reason) after this past season when it was shown you can need your bench. Instead we read they're not trading Bender (assuming anyone would want him anyway) and he's going to be here next year come Hell or highwater... or [insert injury here]... And they are also looking to re-sign Edwards! ...Edwards!???

    Not only are they wasting roster spots on players they won't play or who can't play BUT they are wasting money IMHO. It's no wonder we can't play in the Free Agent sandlot because we tie up all our money re-signing our own to a fault.

    I'm sure there's a counter argument to my ranting that speaks to the loyalty being good for the players because it allows us to keep the players we want to keep as they 'repay' Donnie's loyalty to them (as they hopefully grow). ...And a counter argument that would talk about the continuity being good for the fans. Phooey... Let's quit wasting money and time and let's quit being a team always built for 'next year'. A team of 'if's'...

    I can only hope the stories of Edwards' and Bender's return in 2005-2006 are simply ploys to raise some interest in them as filler in a trade. I doubt it tho... It's the same old summer re-run the Pacers are known for: Overhype the draft pick(s) and downplay free agency.

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    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    Let's quit wasting money and time and let's quit being a team always built for 'next year'. A team of 'if's'...

    I can only hope the stories of Edwards' and Bender's return in 2005-2006 are simply ploys to raise some interest in them as filler in a trade. I doubt it tho... It's the same old summer re-run the Pacers are known for: Overhype the draft pick(s) and downplay free agency.

    -Bball
    I kinda thought we were built for the now this past season until Ron went coo-coo for cocoa puffs and, well, you know the story.

    I'm glad that it appears we're not thinking about doing a wholesale trade of talent for a big name free agent. A tweak or two will do. I like our roster right now with a couple of small adjustments. Do that and I think we'll be in the hunt next season. That said, the idea of getting Pierce still intrigues me.

  8. #8
    Member Knucklehead Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Let's just say Edwards is the equivalent of MIA and leave him on the bench. On a very deep team where about 6 guys are going to potentially be squawking about PT, we don't need to get rid of Edwards just to find another 15th man who will sit on the IL in his place.

    We have 16 guys. If we waive Cro, we can send Edwards to the IL, especially since we already have 4 other centers. He's insurance in case one of those 4 guys go down, especially since a couple of them are pretty old and 3 of them did go down last year.

    OTOH, would you rather the Simons paid the luxury tax and keep Cro or let Edwards go? I vote for Croshere.

    Now, anyone can produce a trade for a decent player where we let our extra chaff fly in the wind, like Redd for Bender, Cro, Gill, AJ, JJ, Pollard, and Edwards, but we know that's pie in the sky don't we? People a lot smarter than us are already figuring out what to do.

    If we pick up this Sarunas guy, then I say both Cro and Edwards are history.

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    Member bread's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    Truth be told the same things were said about Brezac on here. Now he's doing pretty well starting for Charlotte. If the Pacers want to keep Edwards I guess they have reason.
    I see your point but can you honestly tell me that you have seen anything from Edwards that we couldn't get next year from our low first round pick? I guess I just don't see the sense in signing him and putting him on the bench or in the NBDL when he'll never be more than a 3rd string player AT BEST IMO. Those are a dime-a-dozen. Although we're not talking about a lot of money it could be better used elsewhere.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by bread
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    I see your point but can you honestly tell me that you have seen anything from Edwards that we couldn't get next year from our low first round pick? I guess I just don't see the sense in signing him and putting him on the bench or in the NBDL when he'll never be more than a 3rd string player AT BEST IMO. Those are a dime-a-dozen. Although we're not talking about a lot of money it could be better used elsewhere.
    I agree with everything you said. And I admit I haven't seen anything from him. However it occurred to me when reading this thread that I had heard the same arguments before so I pointed it out.

    I'll point it out again. The real basketball experts, Pacers brass, are talking about keeping him. Why the big discrepancy between their view and the board?

    I know I'm not a basketball expert, and I'll admit that I can't tell the difference between a real basketball expert and a imposture, except in the one way that manifests itself on this board. When they disagree with known experts.

  11. #11
    Member skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    If Saras gets signed then I think Gill will be cut.
    Cro waived to avoid luxury tax.

    I hope our 12 man roster looks like:

    PG : Tins/Saras/AJ
    SG : Jax/Fred
    SF : Ron/JJ/Granger
    PF : JO/Foster
    C : DD/Hulk

    with Pollard, Bender and Edwards filling out the 15 man squad.

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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    I'm glad that it appears we're not thinking about doing a wholesale trade of talent for a big name free agent. A tweak or two will do. I like our roster right now with a couple of small adjustments. Do that and I think we'll be in the hunt next season. That said, the idea of getting Pierce still intrigues me.
    And what would they be?

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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    I know I'm not a basketball expert, and I'll admit that I can't tell the difference between a real basketball expert and a imposture, except in the one way that manifests itself on this board. When they disagree with known experts.
    So if they don't re-sign him will you concede that I am indeed an expert because the known experts agreed with me?

  14. #14
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    And what would they be?
    I don't trust Tinsley's health and we simply can't rely on AJ to carry the load if something should happen to Tins. As far as how that's addressed, I'll borrow from Will here, I'll leave that up to the experts. I'd like to get another big man, too, to back up JO. That said, I'd be pretty comfortable going into next season if all we did was address the PG position and then make any necessary adjustments at mid-season.

  15. #15
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    backcourt

    tinsley
    jackson
    jones
    saras
    jay williams

    frontcourt

    artest
    jo
    davis
    foster
    granger
    jj
    bender
    harrison
    pollard
    brian grant

    make it happen oh mighty front office.....

  16. #16
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    The Pacers are never really 'in' the free agent market as far as big name FA's go. It is not the modus operandi of the organization. Re-signing their own has always taken priority.

    That said...
    That doesn't mean they wouldn't entertain a trade for one of those names if their original team wants to do a sign and trade and the Pacers feel it is fair (I'm sure that some of us would jump at some things the org would pass on tho).

    WARNING: Dark thoughts appear below

    And more importantly (to me)... Edwards?
    Geeez... I thought maybe the team would've learned something about wasting roster spots on players that are incapable or unwilling to contribute (for whatever reason) after this past season when it was shown you can need your bench. Instead we read they're not trading Bender (assuming anyone would want him anyway) and he's going to be here next year come Hell or highwater... or [insert injury here]... And they are also looking to re-sign Edwards! ...Edwards!???

    Not only are they wasting roster spots on players they won't play or who can't play BUT they are wasting money IMHO. It's no wonder we can't play in the Free Agent sandlot because we tie up all our money re-signing our own to a fault.

    I'm sure there's a counter argument to my ranting that speaks to the loyalty being good for the players because it allows us to keep the players we want to keep as they 'repay' Donnie's loyalty to them (as they hopefully grow). ...And a counter argument that would talk about the continuity being good for the fans. Phooey... Let's quit wasting money and time and let's quit being a team always built for 'next year'. A team of 'if's'...

    I can only hope the stories of Edwards' and Bender's return in 2005-2006 are simply ploys to raise some interest in them as filler in a trade. I doubt it tho... It's the same old summer re-run the Pacers are known for: Overhype the draft pick(s) and downplay free agency.

    -Bball
    It's called being fiscally responsible.

  17. #17
    Member OnlyPacersLeft's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    wouldn't it be a b*tch if they resigned edwards and not James Jones? hmmmm
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by bread
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    So if they don't re-sign him will you concede that I am indeed an expert because the known experts agreed with me?

    Sure! I'm easy because that would make me an expert too, because I see no reason to sigh him either. (grin)


    By the way I was referring to the fans on here who said those things about PB.

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    Member Isaac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    If we just sign Sarunas, that's all I want.

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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacers67
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    If we just sign Sarunas, that's all I want.
    Agreed. If he becomes a Pacer, I don't care if we make other moves.

    Tinsley/Saras
    Jackson/Fred
    Artest/Granger
    O'Neal/Davis
    Foster/Hulk

    That is a great lineup. A lot of potential for the wheels to fall off, that's always been the problem and we know it. But you know what, they might not fall off. This could be a terrific team.

  21. #21
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    It's called being fiscally responsible.
    'What' is called 'fiscally responsible'? Re-signing players like Edwards to sit on the bench and never play? Hamstringing your roster mobility by overpaying 'your own' to the point your well over the salary cap? Signing your backup PG to a long term contract even with concerns about the position and financial status in regards to the cap? Paying your retired SG for a year you know he won't play?

    -Bball
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  22. #22
    PfanIU18
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Edwards is going to be muncent...give him a few years

  23. #23
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    I'm not sure why James Jones would re-sign in Indy. There's a possibility he could go all of next season without playing one important minute.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  24. #24
    PacerNthaDesert
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I'm not sure why James Jones would re-sign in Indy. There's a possibility he could go all of next season without playing one important minute.

    That's true and he's way too good not to be in someone's rotation.

  25. #25
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers not in free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    I agree with everything you said. And I admit I haven't seen anything from him. However it occurred to me when reading this thread that I had heard the same arguments before so I pointed it out.

    I'll point it out again. The real basketball experts, Pacers brass, are talking about keeping him. Why the big discrepancy between their view and the board?

    I know I'm not a basketball expert, and I'll admit that I can't tell the difference between a real basketball expert and a imposture, except in the one way that manifests itself on this board. When they disagree with known experts.
    Are many of you guys too young to know (not a slam) that teams have been keeping 7' "projects" on the end of the bench for about, oh, 30 years? "You can't teach height" comes from the 50's or 60's.
    BUT, don't we now have enough quality players that we don't have a dead spot on the end of the bench?
    PS - I always liked Primoz, haven't seen Edwards play at all.

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