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Thread: Ron just became less of a concern

  1. #26
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    The Pacers took Granger because he was the best player available, regardless of position.

    He had originally been projected to go anywhere from pick 6 to 10. How and why he slipped to us at #17, I don't know.

    But, I agree with others. It's not like Bird and Walsh looked at Granger, and said "Wow, now we have a Plan B to cover Ron Artest."

    Guys, we already had a Plan B. In a pinch, Jackson could slide right back into the "3", and the Jones boys could have split the "2".

    SF was by no means the top priority. We merely took the best player available. Higher priorities continue to be an interior player that can shoot and a perimeter shooter. [At this time, we have a couple of perimeter SCORERS, but we have no true perimeter SHOOTER.]

    I still believe the Pacers will atempt to sign James Jones. And, I think the Pacers will attempt to sign the guard from Russia. Some version of that trade everybody was talking about for Magloire to acquire the interior player and also reduce our numbers would be a finishing touch. That, and re-signing DD, of course.
    You are deluded if you don't think that Rick, Donnie and Larry all think we got some insurance in Danny. Rick even said as much. Also, they didn't expect Danny to fall that far. If I recall correctly, Bird said if Green was available he would pick him. He didn't because Granger was available. It may have been happenstance, but I assure you Donnie's and Larry's phones were on fire when it was apparent that Danny was available.

  2. #27
    Diesel
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    The Pacers took Granger because he was the best player available, regardless of position.

    He had originally been projected to go anywhere from pick 6 to 10. How and why he slipped to us at #17, I don't know.

    But, I agree with others. It's not like Bird and Walsh looked at Granger, and said "Wow, now we have a Plan B to cover Ron Artest."

    Guys, we already had a Plan B. In a pinch, Jackson could slide right back into the "3", and the Jones boys could have split the "2".

    SF was by no means the top priority. We merely took the best player available. Higher priorities continue to be an interior player that can shoot and a perimeter shooter. [At this time, we have a couple of perimeter SCORERS, but we have no true perimeter SHOOTER.]

    I still believe the Pacers will atempt to sign James Jones. And, I think the Pacers will attempt to sign the guard from Russia. Some version of that trade everybody was talking about for Magloire to acquire the interior player and also reduce our numbers would be a finishing touch. That, and re-signing DD, of course.

    I agree with you on that. When you get to 17 and you see two guys projected to be top 10 picks in Granger and Green you have to scoop one of them up. I would have been happy with either pick and I in know way though either one of them would be available to us. I do think though that we can play Artest and Granger together at times, so I don't think we picked Granger to replace Artest although if somebody gave us a great offer for Artest the selection of Granger would make it easier to part ways. Like Ive said in the other threads the defensive ability of Granger and Artest will be alot of fun for us to watch next season. I hope they keep both of them.

  3. #28
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    James Jones at the 2 spot?? Are you trying to make me laugh?

    One of our biggest problems last season was that Jack had to slide over to cover for Ron at the three. And that's *with* Reggie. Its imperative that Jack stay at SG this season at whatever time Ron commits his annual "conduct detrimental to winning". If that's your Plan B, I'm glad that DW and Bird were flexible enough to take advantage of this opportunity when Granger dropped from #5 or #6 on most boards to us.

    Face it, there's now a very strong possibility that Ron is going to be expendable in a season or two.
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  4. #29

    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    James Jones at the 2 spot?? Are you trying to make me laugh?

    One of our biggest problems last season was that Jack had to slide over to cover for Ron at the three. And that's *with* Reggie. Its imperative that Jack stay at SG this season at whatever time Ron commits his annual "conduct detrimental to winning". If that's your Plan B, I'm glad that DW and Bird were flexible enough to take advantage of this opportunity when Granger dropped from #5 or #6 on most boards to us.

    Face it, there's now a very strong possibility that Ron is going to be expendable in a season or two.
    Never!
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  5. #30
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel
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    I agree with you on that. When you get to 17 and you see two guys projected to be top 10 picks in Granger and Green you have to scoop one of them up. I would have been happy with either pick and I in know way though either one of them would be available to us. I do think though that we can play Artest and Granger together at times, so I don't think we picked Granger to replace Artest although if somebody gave us a great offer for Artest the selection of Granger would make it easier to part ways. Like Ive said in the other threads the defensive ability of Granger and Artest will be alot of fun for us to watch next season. I hope they keep both of them.
    Agreed, I think we could see Ron and Danny both in the game with JO at the 5 spot. Ron and Danny can both play 3 and 4. I like the ideal of a smaller quicker line up with Tins and Jax in the back court. That lineup could really play some serious D and get out and run.
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  6. #31
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    Never!
    Yeah, he'll never be expendable. Just like he wasn't before 11/19.

  7. #32
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    James Jones at the 2 spot?? Are you trying to make me laugh?

    One of our biggest problems last season was that Jack had to slide over to cover for Ron at the three. And that's *with* Reggie. Its imperative that Jack stay at SG this season at whatever time Ron commits his annual "conduct detrimental to winning". If that's your Plan B, I'm glad that DW and Bird were flexible enough to take advantage of this opportunity when Granger dropped from #5 or #6 on most boards to us.
    Exactly. Otherwise they would have picked Green.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Jay, please re-read. I merely said "in a pinch", regarding James. I realize that is not the desirable solution.

    What I really view as desirable at the "2" is for us to be fortunate enough to acquire a talent good enough to enable Jackson to come off the bench as our sixth man. But I concede that scenario isn't likely at all. But my point is, at "2" I want a scorer that is also a shooter. I guess you could call me a little spoiled.

    But I think you and Harmonica are mistaken if you believe that Granger was selected because he could be a Plan B or a possible replacement for Artest. The Pacers took one of two players (Green being the other) that they simply could not pass on, period.

    However, I definitely do agree with you that Granger is the type of player that certainly provides the potential to be a starting small forward for the Pacers. And if it turns out that he is ready for that role in a couple of years, then I say that is great. If we still have Ron at that time, that means we're deeper than hell at the "3", and would have an excellent resource (whether Artest or Granger) to be used in a trade to return us an excellent player to fill any pressing need that we might have.

  9. #34
    Chest Rockwell
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Al Harrington could have been the starting SF for us too, but the fact is that Artest, when mentally sound, is a top 10 talent. Granger will only play major minutes if Artest is traded, injured, or suspended (knocks on wood)

  10. #35
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    But I think you and Harmonica are mistaken if you believe that Granger was selected because he could be a Plan B or a possible replacement for Artest. The Pacers took one of two players (Green being the other) that they simply could not pass on, period.
    Possible replacement? No one said that. Donnie and Larry had had it with Ron last summer after the ECFs and tried to move him. I can't imagine that changed much after he announced his retirement to the team and followed that by charging into the stands in Detroit. Although I've heard Ron's doing everything that's been asked of him by the team to get his act together. That said, when Granger fell, as Jay said, Donnie and Larry took advantage of it because they saw an opportunity to provide some insurance at the three. Otherwise, why didn't they take Green as Bird said they would if he was still available?

  11. #36
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    if its defense u want and a bit of an odd lineup how bout this.....'in a pinch'

    jo
    artest
    jj/granger
    jack
    f. jones

  12. #37
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    Jay, please re-read. I merely said "in a pinch", regarding James. I realize that is not the desirable solution.

    What I really view as desirable at the "2" is for us to be fortunate enough to acquire a talent good enough to enable Jackson to come off the bench as our sixth man. But I concede that scenario isn't likely at all. But my point is, at "2" I want a scorer that is also a shooter. I guess you could call me a little spoiled.

    But I think you and Harmonica are mistaken if you believe that Granger was selected because he could be a Plan B or a possible replacement for Artest. The Pacers took one of two players (Green being the other) that they simply could not pass on, period.

    However, I definitely do agree with you that Granger is the type of player that certainly provides the potential to be a starting small forward for the Pacers. And if it turns out that he is ready for that role in a couple of years, then I say that is great. If we still have Ron at that time, that means we're deeper than hell at the "3", and would have an excellent resource (whether Artest or Granger) to be used in a trade to return us an excellent player to fill any pressing need that we might have.

    Perhaps I should re-phrase... and maybe Jay's_Wife@Section204 is the only one I've said this to...

    I think Granger was a no-brainer as the "Best player available" and that's why he was taken. Absolutely. However, he also fills a need that this team has - some of us have thought getting another starting caliber SF as a "Plan B" was the Pacers' most critical need - even over perimeter shooting or backup post play and I'll acknowledge we need both of those as well. So in one move, the Pacers were able to pick the "best player available" AND fill a major need.

    Now lets say the Pacers find a good trade for Artest that involves, hypothetically, a center or a SG that would be an upgrade. Now they can do it. Prior to about two hours ago, they *had* to get a starting caliber SF in exchange for Ron.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
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  13. #38
    Diesel
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop
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    Agreed, I think we could see Ron and Danny both in the game with JO at the 5 spot. Ron and Danny can both play 3 and 4. I like the ideal of a smaller quicker line up with Tins and Jax in the back court. That lineup could really play some serious D and get out and run.
    Actually I don't see Granger playing alot of powerforward for us.He could play powerforward for Pheonix but thats about it. Like Ive said many times hes somewhat similar to Shawn Marion and I heard Greg Anthony compare him to Scottie Pippen probably because of his lenght and defensive skills more so then his offensive skills. I can see Carlise playing Granger and Artest at the two and three positions depending on certain match ups. I know neither one is really a two guard but in certain match ups Granger will be able to guard some of the bigger guards. Im not sure how effectively they will be on the offensive end but if Artest continues to improve on his jumper we may be able to see a Artest / Granger defensive combo at the two and three positions.Picking Granger gives Carlisle alot of flexibility.

  14. #39
    Chest Rockwell
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Anyone who doesn't admit that Artest's psychosis is not an issue is just in denial. He could lose it at any time, and that's why Granger is a great pick for us. That said, Artest's talent is so immense that it's worth the risk IMO.

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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Perhaps I should re-phrase... and maybe Jay's_Wife@Section204 is the only one I've said this to...

    I think Granger was a no-brainer as the "Best player available" and that's why he was taken. Absolutely. However, he also fills a need that this team has - some of us have thought getting another starting caliber SF as a "Plan B" was the Pacers' most critical need - even over perimeter shooting or backup post play and I'll acknowledge we need both of those as well. So in one move, the Pacers were able to pick the "best player available" AND fill a major need.

    Now lets say the Pacers find a good trade for Artest that involves, hypothetically, a center or a SG that would be an upgrade. Now they can do it. Prior to about two hours ago, they *had* to get a starting caliber SF in exchange for Ron.
    Okay. I buy your explanation, I guess we will just have to wait and see how Granger pans out this year.

    I think we can all recall Bird's recent words when he said he thought the Pacers would be able to draft a player that could contribute on a consistent basis by the All-Star break. So, I really don't see Granger beginning to pick up any major minutes until about that time.

  16. #41
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    What I really view as desirable at the "2" is for us to be fortunate enough to acquire a talent good enough to enable Jackson to come off the bench as our sixth man. But I concede that scenario isn't likely at all. But my point is, at "2" I want a scorer that is also a shooter. I guess you could call me a little spoiled.
    I'm still hoping we make a move for Allen.
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  17. #42
    Diesel
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    I'm still hoping we make a move for Allen.
    I think with Granger aboard it would make Jackson and Freddy Jones more expendable to aguire somebody like Redd or Allen.

  18. #43
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    im actually more curious how granger affects the bender situation....because that is much more relevant....

    no matter what, i dont think we will ever know of any real draft strategy this year.....

    other than what i saw from marty blake regarding the pacers strategy and what it should be....

    'pick the best 15 players in the draft and see which one slides to u..'

    which is what they did....i just dont believe in their wildest dreams they thought it would be granger....a 10-15 talent sliding to 17? yes....a 6-10 talent sliding to 17? not likely....

    though bird did say that u could end up with a guy at 17 that very well could have gone at about 6.....so...guess he was a bit of a prophet after all...

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel
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    I think with Granger aboard it would make Jackson and Freddy Jones more expendable to aguire somebody like Redd or Allen.
    Agreed. The Sonics didn't get any immediate help in the draft, so their situation hasn't changed any. They might be less likely to want Foster because the guy they picked is a seven-footer.

    I'm no longer willing to give up our pick, so we'll see if anyone offers more than Jax/AJ/Pollard. Seattle probably needs more than that... I don't know if adding a future first really improves it much.
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  20. #45
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Agreed. The Sonics didn't get any immediate help in the draft, so their situation hasn't changed any. They might be less likely to want Foster because the guy they picked is a seven-footer.

    I'm no longer willing to give up our pick, so we'll see if anyone offers more than Jax/AJ/Pollard. Seattle probably needs more than that... I don't know if adding a future first really improves it much.
    i would give them next years first round pick...in fact i would give next years first round pick to anyone...

    we will have one of the best records in the league...the draft will suck next year....of course everyone probably knows that...but its still a good throwin...

  21. #46
    Diesel
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Agreed. The Sonics didn't get any immediate help in the draft, so their situation hasn't changed any. They might be less likely to want Foster because the guy they picked is a seven-footer.

    I'm no longer willing to give up our pick, so we'll see if anyone offers more than Jax/AJ/Pollard. Seattle probably needs more than that... I don't know if adding a future first really improves it much.

    With Granger aboard I would not hesitate to give that up for Allen or Redd even though I would rather have Allen. I would even up the offer a bit to Jackson/Foster/Pollard and a future first round pick to get a deal done.

  22. #47
    Chest Rockwell
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Bender is nothing more than an afterthought IMO.

  23. #48
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Considering we have Granger, and all the decent players who weren't even drafted, I don't think we should be too worried about gutting our bench if a great trade came along. I think it might end up being pretty easy to replenish.
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  24. #49
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    Default Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I see it as plan F. As in fail.

    OK, I admit that was pretty lame. But if anyone thinks that Grainger is going to make anyone forget about Artest they are insane
    Some of us have already forgotten about Artest. The PACERS backup plan is place.

  25. #50
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    Wink Re: Ron just became less of a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Yeah, he'll never be expendable. Just like he wasn't before 11/19.
    Plenty of Pacer fans were ready to dump his psycho *ss BEFORE 11/19.

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