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Thread: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

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    --------- freddielewis14's Avatar
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    Default [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    I mostly just posted this because the 538 formula puts PG and Dipo on the same tier as a 3rd best player on a contender...

    Let’s develop some terminology to describe degrees of the stardom in the NBA. I’ll introduce three types of players: Alphas, Betas and Gammas.

    An Alpha is a player who’s as good as the best player on a typical championship-winning team. This is an MVP contender — one of the half-dozen best players in the league.

    A Beta is as good as the second-best player on a typical NBA champion. As I mentioned, Hayward is a good example of a Beta. Betas are usually All-Stars, perhaps even All-Star starters, and they’re among the best players at their position. But they’re not among the very best players in the league.

    And a Gamma is good as third-best player on a typical championship team. A Gamma might be an All-Star, but he usually won’t make one of the three All-NBA teams. He probably has one or two weaknesses (defense, shooting, etc.) along with his obvious strengths. But he’s still a very good player and might be the best player on a non-contending team. Thomas, although he’s somewhat difficult to evaluate because of his defense — various statistical systems rate it anywhere from mediocre to execrable2 — is a reasonably good example of a Gamma.


    Read the entire article here:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...title-not-yet/

  2. #2

    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Wow - according to this we traded the 23rd best player in the league (on a 1 year rental) for the 33rd best (25 yrs old) and a nice young player haha. This article thinks highly of Dipo. Hope theyre more right than others in the media.

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    Pacer fan since 1993 Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Man what could have been, seeing Kawhi up there just makes my stomach churn of what was missed out on.

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    Pacer fan since 1993 Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    1988-89 and 1989-90 Detroit Pistons, the 2003-04 Pistons, and the 2013-14 San Antonio Spurs — won a title with someone about as good as Hayward as their best player.

    I am sorry but no, Isiah was an amazing player and Tim Duncan was as well. The 03/04 Pistons sure but we should have won that year if not for Meta World *******.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    The same author predicted Hillary Clinton had a 98% chance at winning the election (not making this political just using as a reference)..

    It's a nice little stat chart but idk what it means in real life. Only 1 "beta" has ever made a conference final.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    Man what could have been, seeing Kawhi up there just makes my stomach churn of what was missed out on.
    Not me. Kawhi could be named MVP the next 10 straight seasons & I wouldn't care. Wasn't our pick. If we kept it we would have taken Chris Singleton or Jon Leur

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Welp, there you have it. Oladipo is officially as good as PG. That didn't take long.
    Lifelong pacers fan

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
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    The same author predicted Hillary Clinton had a 98% chance at winning the election (not making this political just using as a reference)..

    It's a nice little stat chart but idk what it means in real life. Only 1 "beta" has ever made a conference final.
    If you're talking about Silver he always had several qualifiers with that prediction, but even at 98% that still leaves a chance to lose.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Not talking politics but you'd be hard pressed to find a better prediction team than 538.

    Whether true or not, it's good to see any stats or odds that project Dipo to be in this tier.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers_heath View Post
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    Welp, there you have it. Oladipo is officially as good as PG. That didn't take long.
    Lol, let's not go that far.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    This list is so, so bad. When you only look at stats you end up looking dumb when Harden and CP3 never win a ring.

    PG3 being a 3rd guy is just wrong.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    This list is so, so bad. When you only look at stats you end up looking dumb when Harden and CP3 never win a ring.

    PG3 being a 3rd guy is just wrong.
    So Westbrook and PG is enough for a chip then?

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    Not me. Kawhi could be named MVP the next 10 straight seasons & I wouldn't care. Wasn't our pick. If we kept it we would have taken Chris Singleton or Jon Leur
    Based off of what? Not the Pacers draft board...which had Leonard 6th.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    Man what could have been, seeing Kawhi up there just makes my stomach churn of what was missed out on.
    BUT BUT, Larry just had to have George Hill. Then he had to have Peja too... for a half season rental. I said when the Geo Hill deal was made that Bird made a bad deal, but Bird had to try making a combo guard into a PG. SMH

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    Not me. Kawhi could be named MVP the next 10 straight seasons & I wouldn't care. Wasn't our pick. If we kept it we would have taken Chris Singleton or Jon Leur
    Best laugh I've had all day!!

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by Merz View Post
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    Based off of what? Not the Pacers draft board...which had Leonard 6th.
    Wish I could thank your post a 1,000 times.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    Man what could have been, seeing Kawhi up there just makes my stomach churn of what was missed out on.
    I like to tell myself that he never would have developed to this point in Indiana because the Spurs are A+ at developing guys (and I think have some lauded shooting coach that did wonders for his jump shot?), though it's a backhanded thing to say because of what it implies about our favorite team's ability to maximize players.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by Merz View Post
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    Based off of what? Not the Pacers draft board...which had Leonard 6th.
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Wish I could thank your post a 1,000 times.
    Which means those idiots had 5 players rated better than Kawhi heading into the draft.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
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    The same author predicted Hillary Clinton had a 98% chance at winning the election (not making this political just using as a reference)..
    To be fair, he was doing the best he could with the data available, which led almost everyone to predict a similar outcome for that election. It was a very, very weird election. Don't want to get into it further than that, just to say that in fairness to this guy his numbers sort of betrayed him because they didn't 'fit' this election that way they normally would be expected to 'fit'.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers_heath View Post
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    Welp, there you have it. Oladipo is officially as good as PG. That didn't take long.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Which means those idiots had 5 players rated better than Kawhi heading into the draft.

    Which was a higher rating for Kawhi than any of the other idiot GMs.












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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    Not me. Kawhi could be named MVP the next 10 straight seasons & I wouldn't care. Wasn't our pick. If we kept it we would have taken Chris Singleton or Jon Leur
    That doesn't change the fact we could've (or should've) taken Kawhi. He was the Pacers for the choosing.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    That doesn't change the fact we could've (or should've) taken Kawhi. He was the Pacers for the choosing.
    I really wish I had a way to look into that alternate reality where Kawhi spends most of his rookie year on the bench mired behind PG and Granger, and the major fights on PD over who should get the playing time between Kawhi and Lance.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Read the whole article. Here is his conclusion.

    At the same time, it would be easy to underestimate the challenge Ainge faced. The Celtics’ 53-29 record last year was deceptive, in that it came against a weak conference and relied on what were arguably career years from several players, including Thomas.7 In many respects, they were a rebuilding team dressed up as a competing team. And precisely because the Celtics weren’t just one player away from contending for a title, Ainge needed to acquire a player like Hayward or Butler without compromising the Celtics’ ability to acquire or develop another such player down the road. Even if the Celtics are still a star away from seriously contending for a title — maybe even a superstar away — that’s closer than they were last week.
    Interesting take on the Celtics. The author sees them as a very good developing team rather than a developed Championship level team. JMO, but I can't disagree with that. Lots of good players, not many star-type players. Kind of a poor man's 2004 Pistons model. Perhaps the Celtics would be better served if they had traded for a guy like Paul George or Jimmy Butler instead of signing Hayward. Both George or Butler are state of the art 3D guys which would make a better fit that the jack of all trades that Hayward is. At least when it comes to the playoffs against other really good teams with really good players.

    Wonder if Kyrie Irving is a guy that the Celtics should make a serious effort to trade for. They have a good PG is Isiah Thomas that they could put in the offer and maybe Marcus Smart and the Brooklyn pick. Just a thought.

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    Default Re: [538] Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet. (Dipo mention)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I really wish I had a way to look into that alternate reality where Kawhi spends most of his rookie year on the bench mired behind PG and Granger, and the major fights on PD over who should get the playing time between Kawhi and Lance.
    I really wish I had a way to look into an alternate reality where every thread on PD didn't inevitably lead to this inane discussion about "we could've had Kawhi Leonard!"

    :
    It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

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