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Thread: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

  1. #26
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie4Three
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    When I disagree with the entire premise of your argument, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the NBA is NOT the place to be working on fundamentals. Kids that have not learned these in high school (judging by many high school entries, very few have) are far better off to learn these and work them into their games in college than try these things against the best players in the world right off the bat. You don't learn to run before you learn to walk, and the game of basketball is no different in my opinion.

    Even if I suscribed to your theory that they are better off learning the basics against the best players in the world, there is no need to waste my NBA dollar, as a fan, on teaching a kid the basics of the game. I don't care to watch it. Let him learn those elsewhere and fill out his game. I don't want to pay to watch him develop basic post moves or the use of his off hand. Let me pay to watch the best player today, not the player that will be better in 2 years.

    By the way, Wade did play in college (all 4 years I think, but I could be wrong). I'm not sure why you keep bringing him up. Lebron is the exception that came into the league and was immediately worthy of a starting position. KG and Kobe could've spent a year in college and nobody would've missed much. I don't believe they would be any less of a player today if they had.

    A better product may not be based on age, but I do believe it IS based on experience. Experience is in no small part based on age, although not exclusively. An age limit WILL bring in more experienced players into the league and improve the product. There is absolutely no other reasonable point of view.
    Let me address this part by part (highlighted)

    Please tell me where I said it was the place to work on fundamentals, I did not, in actual fact I said that they would get better, which is meant to be by way of the rigours of an NBA team, the phylosophie behind it and the fact that their opponents are so much better in practise as well as the trainingstaff and surroundings.
    If a team picks a player that does not have fundamentals, then let the team burn their money any which way, but I think they would consider that bad business.

    Then if you state that Kobe and KG were not worthy of a starting in the NBA and would have not been worse of coming later into the league then I guess I better keep my opinion to myself.

    of course it was the year in college till he was 19 that made Spencer Haywood the highest scorer in the ABA (30pts) in his rookie season and Julius Erving should have finished college as well, he would have been so much better.

    In the case of Spencer Haywood there was a lawsuit (ok ok ok several) but the judge ruled that it was his decision if he wanted to work for a living and if someone wanted to pay him, and he wanted to do it then that was it.

    I am simply amazed some of you can not see the consequences of this decision and the obvious game played by the owners.
    By "forcing" the "hardship" cases to the NBDL they haev themselves a nice minor league for little money, can put their hands on lottery picks for pennies thus save themselves millions upon millions, add to that the shortening of the guarantee on rookie contracts with more options for the owners, and the players have lost major money here.
    Each owner CAN save himself around 30 million with this age limit.
    And you want to argue that the 900 million in savings is less important then a perceived rise in quality which can in no way be proven..

    yeah
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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  2. #27

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Let me address this part by part (highlighted)

    Please tell me where I said it was the place to work on fundamentals, I did not, in actual fact I said that they would get better, which is meant to be by way of the rigours of an NBA team, the phylosophie behind it and the fact that their opponents are so much better in practise as well as the trainingstaff and surroundings.
    If a team picks a player that does not have fundamentals, then let the team burn their money any which way, but I think they would consider that bad business.

    Then if you state that Kobe and KG were not worthy of a starting in the NBA and would have not been worse of coming later into the league then I guess I better keep my opinion to myself.

    of course it was the year in college till he was 19 that made Spencer Haywood the highest scorer in the ABA (30pts) in his rookie season and Julius Erving should have finished college as well, he would have been so much better.

    In the case of Spencer Haywood there was a lawsuit (ok ok ok several) but the judge ruled that it was his decision if he wanted to work for a living and if someone wanted to pay him, and he wanted to do it then that was it.

    I am simply amazed some of you can not see the consequences of this decision and the obvious game played by the owners.
    By "forcing" the "hardship" cases to the NBDL they haev themselves a nice minor league for little money, can put their hands on lottery picks for pennies thus save themselves millions upon millions, add to that the shortening of the guarantee on rookie contracts with more options for the owners, and the players have lost major money here.
    Each owner CAN save himself around 30 million with this age limit.
    And you want to argue that the 900 million in savings is less important then a perceived rise in quality which can in no way be proven..

    yeah
    1. Players lacking in fundamentals get drafted all the time. It's only bad business if they don't then put in the time to develop and complete their game. I think this is what should be done by the time they enter the NBA and you seem to think that the NBA is the best place for them to do this. Bad business isn't drafting a player that lacks some fundamentals. They can develop those. Bad business would be to pass up supreme talent and let another team get them because they're going to need 2 years to develop instead of taking a player that is better now but might not ever be a superstar. Therefore, it is now bad business to make your team better now because you could be paying for it big time down the road. It should NEVER be bad business to put a better product on the floor NOW. That's why the age limit is here, and that's why it's a good thing.

    2. Kobe and KG were not worthy of starting spots in their first year in the league. Lebron and Stoudamire were. I'm still confused about Wade. Did you not know that he went to college?

    3. I don't know that what players end up becoming has anything to do with them coming into the league too early. I still want to watch the best players in the world when I watch the NBA. I don't want to watch the best potential, but the best players. There's a big difference between the two.

    4. I have no idea how each owner is going to save 30 million by this. That logic is totally lost on me. I think giving them the option to put players in the NBDL will actually cost them more money and cutting the guarantee on rookie contracts will just allow them to replace a player more easily (and yes, they'll have to pay the replacement too) and get rid of busts more quickly. If a player is drafted, their contract is set and guaranteed no matter if they are on the NBA roster or sent to the NBDL as I understand it. Of course, if a player is sent to the NBDL, then there is another roster spot available on the NBA roster. Therefore, the owner will now be paying 2 players instead of just the one he was paying before.

    You seem to be looking at this from the standpoint of a player while I'm looking at it as a fan. In short, all I care about is the product on the floor. I don't care who pockets more money (neither the owners or players will be starving) as long as the product is better. The product will obviously be better even if you choose not to see that. I'm actually shocked that anyone could argue otherwise.

  3. #28
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    The NBDL and the NBA have different pay-scales, never the two shall meet.

    henceforth the math: savings on guaranteed contract 3.5 mio for the top 1.5 for the bottom, avg 2.5 mio for 7 years (duration of the cba) = 17.5 mio
    savings on getting the draftpick of next year (HS kid) into the NBDL:slary 150 thousand tops, 2 - 3 year contract when "called" up minimum payment schedule NBA = avg 650 thousand, if player had been 1st round pick : (we are talking second year earliest here) 1 mio minimum savings over 2 years = 3.5 mio per year after the 1st year hence 5 times 3.5 mio = 17.5 mio
    including a failure or two the total savings come down to 30 mio per team = 900 mio for the league.
    Does the product improve?

    Considering players that are not ready get little or no playing time, the "normal" 7 - 9 player rotation will be used, with 14 players on the roster most picks, whether college or HS will see exceptionally little playing time, exceptions to be considered, like LeBron (yes I was mistaken about Wade, sorry) and Wade (in this case valid example) and others.
    Other talented players get developped more slowly, but would another pick see playing time? in short no

    Henceforth the draft (barring exceptions) has very little influence on the "product" on the floor per direct.

    Now that takes away your argument one would say.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  4. #29

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    The NBDL and the NBA have different pay-scales, never the two shall meet.

    henceforth the math: savings on guaranteed contract 3.5 mio for the top 1.5 for the bottom, avg 2.5 mio for 7 years (duration of the cba) = 17.5 mio
    savings on getting the draftpick of next year (HS kid) into the NBDL:slary 150 thousand tops, 2 - 3 year contract when "called" up minimum payment schedule NBA = avg 650 thousand, if player had been 1st round pick : (we are talking second year earliest here) 1 mio minimum savings over 2 years = 3.5 mio per year after the 1st year hence 5 times 3.5 mio = 17.5 mio
    including a failure or two the total savings come down to 30 mio per team = 900 mio for the league.
    Does the product improve?

    Considering players that are not ready get little or no playing time, the "normal" 7 - 9 player rotation will be used, with 14 players on the roster most picks, whether college or HS will see exceptionally little playing time, exceptions to be considered, like LeBron (yes I was mistaken about Wade, sorry) and Wade (in this case valid example) and others.
    Other talented players get developped more slowly, but would another pick see playing time? in short no

    Henceforth the draft (barring exceptions) has very little influence on the "product" on the floor per direct.

    Now that takes away your argument one would say.
    Draft picks have a set contract. I do not think this will change although I have not read the new CBA so I can't guarantee it. I would be willing to bet alot of money that anyone drafted and sent to the NBDL will still be paid according to their draft status. I would be shocked if the PA gave the owner's that. Aside from that, getting players that aren't ready off the NBA court DOES improve the product. A garbage man making $5 million a year is still a garbage man. The fact that the players get less, and I don't think they will, doesn't make them less of a player. They also aren't any better if they get paid more. If the player is ready to help a team, they will be on the NBA roster. If not, they'll be in the NBDL and I can watch a capable player instead in the NBA. And as far as player rotations go, some teams may use a rotation not including these players and some do. Even for those that don't, let's not forget that injuries and suspensions happen and teams often use these players not originally in their normal rotation.

    Therefore, the product on the court can only get better with this. If they really wanted to improve it they would set it a year higher. I don't think your argument has much merit.

  5. #30
    Member SycamoreKen's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    If you go back to this thread

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=12939

    the article indirectly makes the arguement that the age limit is uneeded. Acording to this writer, 4 of the best picks were high schoolers, and T-Mac isn't one of them, while the high schoolers only made up 2 of the worst picks. How does this rule apply to foriegn players, many of whom start playing professionally early on?

    This is just the owners trying to save themselves from themselves, nothing more.

  6. #31
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie4Three
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    Draft picks have a set contract. I do not think this will change although I have not read the new CBA so I can't guarantee it. I would be willing to bet alot of money that anyone drafted and sent to the NBDL will still be paid according to their draft status. I would be shocked if the PA gave the owner's that. Aside from that, getting players that aren't ready off the NBA court DOES improve the product. A garbage man making $5 million a year is still a garbage man. The fact that the players get less, and I don't think they will, doesn't make them less of a player. They also aren't any better if they get paid more. If the player is ready to help a team, they will be on the NBA roster. If not, they'll be in the NBDL and I can watch a capable player instead in the NBA. And as far as player rotations go, some teams may use a rotation not including these players and some do. Even for those that don't, let's not forget that injuries and suspensions happen and teams often use these players not originally in their normal rotation.

    Therefore, the product on the court can only get better with this. If they really wanted to improve it they would set it a year higher. I don't think your argument has much merit.



    Explain to me in al logic why an owner would use a NBA draftpick to select a player for his NBDL team which he can sign outright for far less money?

    That is not going to happen.

    Perhaps a 2nd rounder, but not a guaranteed money first rounder.

    And do we really want to go over the list of garbage players making millions (or even the league minimum) that are 10 year veterans?

    I think most HS first round draft picks have more to offer then for instance Kendal Gill.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  7. #32

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen
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    If you go back to this thread

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=12939

    the article indirectly makes the arguement that the age limit is uneeded. Acording to this writer, 4 of the best picks were high schoolers, and T-Mac isn't one of them, while the high schoolers only made up 2 of the worst picks. How does this rule apply to foriegn players, many of whom start playing professionally early on?

    This is just the owners trying to save themselves from themselves, nothing more.
    Once again, it's irrelevant how the pick turns out to me. If the player can come in and actually deserve his roster spot based on current ability and not potential, then I have no problem with them being drafted. With only a couple of exceptions, these 18 year olds aren't ready to play and their potential replaces the ability of a player who is currently superior. Therefore, the product is weakened.

  8. #33

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Explain to me in al logic why an owner would use a NBA draftpick to select a player for his NBDL team which he can sign outright for far less money?

    That is not going to happen.

    Perhaps a 2nd rounder, but not a guaranteed money first rounder.
    Then explain to me how an owners are going to save 900 million again. It sounded to me as if your argument was that the owners were going to be sending their draft picks to play in the NBDL in an attempt to get out of paying them their guaranteed contracts. All I was saying was that even if they do this, those picks will still get paid their guaranteed contract based on the position they were drafted. I don't see how the owners are going to be paying less money because of this.

    For the record, I do think that some 1st round picks will play some in the NBDL.

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    And do we really want to go over the list of garbage players making millions (or even the league minimum) that are 10 year veterans?

    I think most HS first round draft picks have more to offer then for instance Kendal Gill.
    I don't. Well, maybe Kendall Gill who isn't in the league anymore anyway. I think I heard the other day that he won his first professional boxing match. Perhaps the Pacers should sign him so Artest can have a sparring partner.

    At any rate, the 10 year vets and "garbage players" are still better players than the vast majority of the 18 year olds that have come into the league.

  9. #34
    foretaz
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie4Three
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    At any rate, the 10 year vets and "garbage players" are still better players than the vast majority of the 18 year olds that have come into the league.

  10. #35
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Out of the 8 HS rookies of last year, 6 made the roster,

    *Dwight Howard (Orlando) 82 st 32.6 mpg
    *Shaun Livingston Clippers 15 st 27.1 mpg
    *Sebastian Telfair Portland 26 st 19.6 mpg
    *Al Jefferson Boston 1 st 14.8 mpg
    *Josh Smith Atl. 59 st 27.7 mpg
    *JR Smith (prep) NO 56 st 24.5 mpg

    2 didn't make a roster, but weren't expected to.
    1 Coll rook did not make the roster,
    1 foreigner did not make the roster

    foreign

    *Udrih Spurs 2 st 14.4 mpg
    *Vujacic Lakers 3 st 11.5 mpg
    *Khryapa Blazers 5 st 16.3 mpg
    *Podkolzin Mavs 0 st 2 mpg
    *Biedrins Warriors 1 st 12.8 mpg

    coll:

    *Okafor Charlotte 73 st 35.6 mpg
    *Gordon Bulls 3 st 24.4 mpg
    *Devin Harris mavs 19 st 15.4 mpg
    *Childress Atl. 44 st 31.2 mpg
    *Deng Bulls 45 st 27.3 mpg
    *Araujo Raptors 41 st 12.5 mpg
    *Iguadola Sixers 82 st 32.8 mpg
    *Luke Jackson Cavs 0 st 4.3 mpg
    *Humphries Jazz 4 st 13.0 mpg
    *Snyder Jazz 7 st 13.3 mpg
    *Jameer Nelson Magic 21 st 20.4 mpg
    *Delonte West Bost 7 st 13 mpg
    *Tony Allen Bost 34 st 16.4 mpg
    *D Harrisson Pacers 14 st 17.7 mpg

    Seeing the minutes played (average) and games started, please name vets for hs players onthose teams that would fill those places better?

    the best product is on the floor, including the HS players.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  11. #36

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Out of the 8 HS rookies of last year, 6 made the roster,

    *Dwight Howard (Orlando) 82 st 32.6 mpg
    *Shaun Livingston Clippers 15 st 27.1 mpg
    *Sebastian Telfair Portland 26 st 19.6 mpg
    *Al Jefferson Boston 1 st 14.8 mpg
    *Josh Smith Atl. 59 st 27.7 mpg
    *JR Smith (prep) NO 56 st 24.5 mpg

    2 didn't make a roster, but weren't expected to.
    1 Coll rook did not make the roster,
    1 foreigner did not make the roster

    foreign

    *Udrih Spurs 2 st 14.4 mpg
    *Vujacic Lakers 3 st 11.5 mpg
    *Khryapa Blazers 5 st 16.3 mpg
    *Podkolzin Mavs 0 st 2 mpg
    *Biedrins Warriors 1 st 12.8 mpg

    coll:

    *Okafor Charlotte 73 st 35.6 mpg
    *Gordon Bulls 3 st 24.4 mpg
    *Devin Harris mavs 19 st 15.4 mpg
    *Childress Atl. 44 st 31.2 mpg
    *Deng Bulls 45 st 27.3 mpg
    *Araujo Raptors 41 st 12.5 mpg
    *Iguadola Sixers 82 st 32.8 mpg
    *Luke Jackson Cavs 0 st 4.3 mpg
    *Humphries Jazz 4 st 13.0 mpg
    *Snyder Jazz 7 st 13.3 mpg
    *Jameer Nelson Magic 21 st 20.4 mpg
    *Delonte West Bost 7 st 13 mpg
    *Tony Allen Bost 34 st 16.4 mpg
    *D Harrisson Pacers 14 st 17.7 mpg

    Seeing the minutes played (average) and games started, please name vets for hs players onthose teams that would fill those places better?

    the best product is on the floor, including the HS players.
    You honestly think Telfair and Livingston were anything more than just a potentially good young player getting minutes on a terrible team? Put those players on a decent team and they don't see any minutes.

    I'm going to end the discussion on this note because you obviously aren't going to change your mind and I am confident I am right about my position as well. If you think the best product is on the floor right now, you think the owners are trying to lower the quality of the game by bringing in the age limit. The owners, who have millions invested in the NBA, would never do this. Somehow you come up with some magical 900 million in savings via this age limit. That doesn't add up. There is no reason the owners would do anything damaging to their investment, and they obviously are advised by alot of people more in the know than we are. Unless you can show me where this 900 million comes from, I don't see your argument adding up.

  12. #37

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    Do you watch NBA basketball?

  13. #38
    foretaz
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie4Three
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    You honestly think Telfair and Livingston were anything more than just a potentially good young player getting minutes on a terrible team? Put those players on a decent team and they don't see any minutes.

    I'm going to end the discussion on this note because you obviously aren't going to change your mind and I am confident I am right about my position as well. If you think the best product is on the floor right now, you think the owners are trying to lower the quality of the game by bringing in the age limit. The owners, who have millions invested in the NBA, would never do this. Somehow you come up with some magical 900 million in savings via this age limit. That doesn't add up. There is no reason the owners would do anything damaging to their investment, and they obviously are advised by alot of people more in the know than we are. Unless you can show me where this 900 million comes from, I don't see your argument adding up.
    youre right.....id much rather have had eddie gill than telfair or livingston....dude seriously, do u have any idea how ridiculous some of the stuff is ur typing?? im trying to stay quiet...but dude...ur soo far off its not even funny....

    but u are right about one thing....the owners do have some people advising them....its their accountants....and this is all about money....and has nothing to do with the product....they would rather pay eddie gill 750,000 than a livingston or a telfair millions....but more than that....a decent size of their fanbase-evidently ur a part of this chunk-doesnt relate to the highschoolers and has a certain resentment regarding them, feeling they dont deserve the millions....ud rather see scott pollard and eddie gill in the league versus a handful of high schoolers that have far more talent than these type of guys ever dream of having.....so please....dont talk to me about product, and the quality of such...


  14. #39
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie4Three
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    You honestly think Telfair and Livingston were anything more than just a potentially good young player getting minutes on a terrible team? Put those players on a decent team and they don't see any minutes.

    I'm going to end the discussion on this note because you obviously aren't going to change your mind and I am confident I am right about my position as well. If you think the best product is on the floor right now, you think the owners are trying to lower the quality of the game by bringing in the age limit. The owners, who have millions invested in the NBA, would never do this. Somehow you come up with some magical 900 million in savings via this age limit. That doesn't add up. There is no reason the owners would do anything damaging to their investment, and they obviously are advised by alot of people more in the know than we are. Unless you can show me where this 900 million comes from, I don't see your argument adding up.

    If you'd take the time to read what I wrote you would see that I more the sufficiently explained where that money comes from.

    Furthermore I am not saying that they are risking the product for a profit, but in business one makes decisions based on gains in more then one way, so does a NBA owner.
    It is not about a lesser product, but the almost same product for less money.
    Excluding risks is a wish for every business man, and this is one way to save money and make their risks cheaper and less of an influence on the team straight away.

    It does not exclude the wins for them, they just became cheaper.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  15. #40
    foretaz
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie4Three
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    Do you watch NBA basketball?

    ummm...its becoming increasingly obvious by ur statements that im not the one who is uninformed....

  16. #41
    CA Pacer Fan A-Train's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    u have to have a 'better' product to have successful marketing...

    if the increased marketing was not received in a positive manner, then u could definitely argue that the product wasnt better....

    the fact that the product has been so well received globally indicates the product is better....

    more marketing doesnt guarantee a positive reception....ultimately the product dictates the success....not the marketing...
    Seems to me the reception to the league in the US is waning, and the league is countering that by taking its game overseas.

  17. #42
    CA Pacer Fan A-Train's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    That can not be blamed on them, but only on the person drafting them for selecting them and not making sure that said understanding is entered into the head of said player.
    And now they (the owners) have taken a step, albiet a small one, in remedying that situation.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    By "forcing" the "hardship" cases to the NBDL they haev themselves a nice minor league for little money, can put their hands on lottery picks for pennies thus save themselves millions upon millions....
    Does it upset you that Major League Baseball owners can draft players (regardless of age) and pay them much smaller salaries to play for their minor league teams, or do you think those players, simply because they were drafted, should be allowed to go straight to the majors and make what major leaguers make?

    Gee, those poor baseball players have to ride on buses and share hotel rooms and, god forbid, PROVE themselves worthy of playing in the best league in the world BEFORE they get paid like they're already ready. That's just awful!

    We need to save these poor souls from the injustice they face by being forced to make less before they've proven they're ready.

    The expansion of the NBDL is going to be the best thing for the NBA.


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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    And do we really want to go over the list of garbage players making millions (or even the league minimum) that are 10 year veterans?

    I think most HS first round draft picks have more to offer then for instance Kendal Gill.
    I would much rather see a 10 year vet making millions as a garbage player than an 18 year old kid who's never done anything in his life but dominate at the high school level.

  20. #45
    foretaz
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train
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    Does it upset you that Major League Baseball owners can draft players (regardless of age) and pay them much smaller salaries to play for their minor league teams, or do you think those players, simply because they were drafted, should be allowed to go straight to the majors and make what major leaguers make?

    Gee, those poor baseball players have to ride on buses and share hotel rooms and, god forbid, PROVE themselves worthy of playing in the best league in the world BEFORE they get paid like they're already ready. That's just awful!

    We need to save these poor souls from the injustice they face by being forced to make less before they've proven they're ready.

    The expansion of the NBDL is going to be the best thing for the NBA.


    and this is why there is a fan problem in the usa....the underlying resentment that these youngsters havent 'earned' the right to make all these millions...

    bottom line is they are more talented than many playing in the league....there are many players, as scot pollard would tell u, that get paid alot of money to suck....

    as long as eddie gill and half the atlanta roster is in the league...not too mention at least 2 players on every roster that is just not that good....there should be no problem with a handful of the very best teenagers in the world joining the league....

    but then jealousy and resentment are funny things...

    some evidently feel they should earn that right....well, my friend....its based on talent...not on years served or a persons age....and if u dont believe for a second that sebastian telfair and sean livingston arent more talented and better players than eddie gill and at least another dozen players in this league, then im sorry....but u must be watching something different than what im watching....

  21. #46
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    and this is why there is a fan problem in the usa....the underlying resentment that these youngsters havent 'earned' the right to make all these millions...
    You can try and make that the issue if you'd like, but it seems to me there exists a resentment on this forum against owners trying to protect themselves from throwing money away on kids that aren't ready to contribute.

    If, as a business owner, you can construct safeguards against wasting money, wouldn't you do so?

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    as long as eddie gill and half the atlanta roster is in the league...not too mention at least 2 players on every roster that is just not that good....there should be no problem with a handful of the very best teenagers in the world joining the league....
    And there will STILL be plenty of 18 and 19 year olds in the league. That's not going to change. They will just have to have proven themselves somewhere else besides high school first.

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    but then jealousy and resentment are funny things...
    Especially when directed towards those who pay your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    some evidently feel they should earn that right....well, my friend....its based on talent...not on years served or a persons age....
    If that's the case, then why have a rookie salary cap at all?

  22. #47

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    [COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=3]
    as long as eddie gill and half the atlanta roster is in the league...not too mention at least 2 players on every roster that is just not that good....there should be no problem with a handful of the very best teenagers in the world joining the league....
    Eddie Gill and players like him are not getting paid a million dollar salary most of the time. They know there role and no one expects much out of them. I don't see the point in trying to compare the 2.

    EDIT: Also just because these HSers are more talented doesn't mean that they know how to play in the NBA. Fact is there basketball IQ usually won't be as high.

  23. #48
    foretaz
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    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie
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    Eddie Gill and players like him are not getting paid a million dollar salary most of the time. They know there role and no one expects much out of them. I don't see the point in trying to compare the 2.
    oh really????? maybe u should take a closer look at some of the salaries...u realize that eddie gill will make close to 900,000 this coming year?????? please, please dont tell me about salaries....and eddie is at least on teh bottom rung of salaries....some of the salaries in this league are ridiculous...and its not those of the highschoolers..

  24. #49

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    oh really????? maybe u should take a closer look at some of the salaries...u realize that eddie gill will make close to 900,000 this coming year?????? please, please dont tell me about salaries....and eddie is at least on teh bottom rung of salaries....some of the salaries in this league are ridiculous...and its not those of the highschoolers..
    Gill's salary will be almost 900,000. Shaun Livingston will get paid 3 million.

    And how many of these veterans like Gill are getting a 4 year contract? Don't forget to consider that factor.

    Lets not forget that these veterans have had to prove themselves. Unless High School upgraded the competition being 6'6+ and dominating players 6 foot isn't to impressive. Now some of these HSers have faced some good competition in HS, but in the end there is a huge gap between HS ball and NBA ball.

  25. #50

    Default Re: My Take on the NBA Age Limit Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    youre right.....id much rather have had eddie gill than telfair or livingston....dude seriously, do u have any idea how ridiculous some of the stuff is ur typing?? im trying to stay quiet...but dude...ur soo far off its not even funny....

    but u are right about one thing....the owners do have some people advising them....its their accountants....and this is all about money....and has nothing to do with the product....they would rather pay eddie gill 750,000 than a livingston or a telfair millions....but more than that....a decent size of their fanbase-evidently ur a part of this chunk-doesnt relate to the highschoolers and has a certain resentment regarding them, feeling they dont deserve the millions....ud rather see scott pollard and eddie gill in the league versus a handful of high schoolers that have far more talent than these type of guys ever dream of having.....so please....dont talk to me about product, and the quality of such...

    First, I wasn't aware that Telfair and Livingston was on the Pacers. Second, in terms of being a player last year, there wasn't much of a difference between the three. I absolutely can't stand Eddie Gill so the other two were probably somewhat better than him last year, but it's not like I look at Eddie Gill against Telfair and think that he's going to be any worse than usual. In 3 years, that may be a different story. Then again, in 3 years, nobody may remember much of any of them. But hey, they got their cup of coffee in the NBA so that should make you happy.

    The only thing you said that I agree with is that these high schoolers have more talent than most of the rest of the league. HOWEVER, talent alone does not make a player. It's becoming increasingly evident that most NBA fans are all about talent and athleticism.

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