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Thread: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

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    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Great read. NO face the same struggles the Pacers have

    ://www.si.com/nba/2017/07/14/anthony-davis-pelicans-demarcus-cousins-superteam-era-warriors

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    There is a simple solution to this, make the small market teams exempt from the LT or better yet make it so that players you draft only count as half of their salary towards the LT so that if you draft a couple of superstars in the making you do not have to let one go to not pay the tax.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Rather them uncap max deals instead.

    On top of that, I'd like to see there be a few more mid range option deals teams can offer if they're over cap.

    That way you can have your star, pay him and still put a team together.
    "man, PG has been really good."

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Not sure it can be broken down by individual cities - it would have to be something that would apply to all teams.

    The NBA should look closer at the NFL structure. Hard caps, franchise players, compensation for losing a player, yada-yada ........... 'small market' teams are able to stay competitive in the NFL. The NBA needs to address this latest trend of 'buddies' getting together - or it's going to get ugly for the small teams and eventually the NBA itself. I'm sure the players & their union would fight anything like that, but the league needs to start being concerned with what the fans have to say and not the players.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    How 'bout a "You-be-the-GM" knowledge test among season ticket holders? The higher the median score on an annual test covering both team specifics and league rules, the higher the luxury-tax line. (PD, how do you think we'd do?) Owners would be incentivized to thoroughly educate their fans and immerse them in the details. Outstanding trade proposals would be given bonus points. Interactivity would become the norm. Seattle fans would clamor to collectively own a team. Maybe a new kind of developmental league would form....


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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Not sure it can be broken down by individual cities - it would have to be something that would apply to all teams.

    The NBA should look closer at the NFL structure. Hard caps, franchise players, compensation for losing a player, yada-yada ........... 'small market' teams are able to stay competitive in the NFL. The NBA needs to address this latest trend of 'buddies' getting together - or it's going to get ugly for the small teams and eventually the NBA itself. I'm sure the players & their union would fight anything like that, but the league needs to start being concerned with what the fans have to say and not the players.
    While I certainly agree you are right, this will not happen in the NBA. They don't really care about having a league where teams have a fair shot at competing. It doesn't mean more money, so it will not happen. You will either need to accept the league for what it is (i.e. fake competition) or you just need to move on to another sport.
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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    I absolutely hate the Franchise tag.

    I'm all for seeing what works within other leagues and incorporating it into the NBA in order to address the perceived lack of competitive balance. But for the players sake, I hope they wouldn't even consider the franchise tag

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I absolutely hate the Franchise tag.

    I'm all for seeing what works within other leagues and incorporating it into the NBA in order to address the perceived lack of competitive balance. But for the players sake, I hope they wouldn't even consider the franchise tag
    I agree. I think it can be handled in other ways. The league has to agree to it though.

    The issue is that some negotiating the CBA don't care about the fans at all.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    While I certainly agree you are right, this will not happen in the NBA. They don't really care about having a league where teams have a fair shot at competing. It doesn't mean more money, so it will not happen. You will either need to accept the league for what it is (i.e. fake competition) or you just need to move on to another sport.
    I disagree, I think every team having a fair shot is a major reason why the NFL is so popular today.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I absolutely hate the Franchise tag.

    I'm all for seeing what works within other leagues and incorporating it into the NBA in order to address the perceived lack of competitive balance. But for the players sake, I hope they wouldn't even consider the franchise tag
    Personally if I had a choice between a franchise tag and RFA I would choose franchise tag. I think RFA and max contracts are terrible for small markets. It basically results in players not making what their "fair market value" would be without those two mechanisms.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I disagree, I think every team having a fair shot is a major reason why the NFL is so popular today.

    Personally if I had a choice between a franchise tag and RFA I would choose franchise tag. I think RFA and max contracts are terrible for small markets. It basically results in players not making what their "fair market value" would be without those two mechanisms.
    So, you are saying that more parity (or at least a fair shot) will mean more money for the NBA? I actually doubt that. There are way too many NBA fans who don't have that mindset. Way too many don't care or don't care enough about all the teams having a fair shot.

    You can tell that from Pacers Digest. For someone who prefers pure competition, it's just sickening to see that among hard core fans. What you might expect from fans watching a competitive sport, you really don't have among NBA fans. Lots and lots of people don't get it or just prefer the league to be run the way it is.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    One of the big reasons that players have more clout in the NBA, than in other sports, is that you can put a player like Lebron James on any team, and you'll have a chance to go the finals. Putting Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or any other transcendental-type player, on any other team, don't necessarily mean they're a shoe-in to even make the conference finals. In NFL, it's the mixture of players, coaching, team concept, fit, etc.

    Think about this....about 95% of NBA players considered all-time greats have won a ring, or, at least made it to the finals. There are many players in the NFL that are/were considered one of the best - of all times, or even just in their positions - and never sniffed the super bowl.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by pogi View Post
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    One of the big reasons that players have more clout in the NBA, than in other sports, is that you can put a player like Lebron James on any team, and you'll have a chance to go the finals. Putting Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or any other transcendental-type player, on any other team, don't necessarily mean they're a shoe-in to even make the conference finals. In NFL, it's the mixture of players, coaching, team concept, fit, etc.

    Think about this....about 95% of NBA players considered all-time greats have won a ring, or, at least made it to the finals. There are many players in the NFL that are/were considered one of the best - of all times, or even just in their positions - and never sniffed the super bowl.
    ...which is why comparing the NFL and the NBA is so stupid.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    The last place the NBAPA would look for guidance is the NFL. Their collective bargaining agreement is awfully one sided. And that side ain't the players. Then again innovation is never rewarded in the NFL. Or college for that matter. Football is a behemoth sport that moves at a glacial pace when it comes to change. Take that HS coach in OK who hasn't lost a game in 10 seasons or something because they never punt, always kick onside and always go for 2. I think the NFL could be ripe for a revolution if one owner would try something like that out. But it will never happen. Football ownership is by far the most staid, traditionalist group. No one is going to be the one to try something new.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    The NFL has instant replay, coaches challenges, and has never had a referee jailed for tinkering with games. That alone makes them better than the NBA.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I disagree, I think every team having a fair shot is a major reason why the NFL is so popular today.




    Personally if I had a choice between a franchise tag and RFA I would choose franchise tag. I think RFA and max contracts are terrible for small markets. It basically results in players not making what their "fair market value" would be without those two mechanisms.
    I'm not a fan of basically making a player stay on a specific team. Especially if said player would otherwise leave for a better opportunity (financial, more competitive, longer termed commitment, etc)

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    The NFL has instant replay, coaches challenges, and has never had a referee jailed for tinkering with games. That alone makes them better than the NBA.
    The NBA has had replay for 15 years. The NFL is also complicit in some of its best players killing themselves. But whatever makes you feel better...

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    For the everyday working person, the NFL is much more manageable. I know many people don't like the expansion of the games like being televised on Thursday now. Many just can't stay up that late and would rather keep games on Sunday. People can easily get involved when it's a every Sunday game. For teams to only have 1 game per week is easy for fans to keep up with.

    NBA and MLB has so many games and most people just can't stay up with that game log, especially if they are rooting for that small market team that loses half the games anyways. Most people not going to know what the local team is doing let alone the rest of the league.

    The NFL is just easier to get on board, participate, be knowledgeable and discuss at work. The players are longer term, especially the core players which creates stability.

    The NBA could easily change to the NFL model as far as keeping core players together longer to actually have the time to put a team together with the right chemistry and talent to compete for championships. But I don't see the players giving in to that sort of agreement any time soon.
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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Question, how was KD able to sign as a FA to the Warriors that was over cap? He had no bird rights

    They are at 136 mil, 37 million over cap... guess the NBA might want to look at that for future changes.
    Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Question, how was KD able to sign as a FA to the Warriors that was over cap? He had no bird rights

    They are at 136 mil, 37 million over cap... guess the NBA might want to look at that for future changes.
    Steph curry. His cap hold was based on his ridiculously low salary from before. IIRC cap hold was $18M he signed for $35M??? After KD signed. Timing is everything in the league. Golden State has been lucky with their guys, but have done a good job of taking advantage of that luck.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    An idea I came up with recently was based around All-NBA results.

    What I'd like to see is teams can only have under contract two All-NBA players at a time, unless players were drafted. In the case of the Warriors it allows them their original three but prevents the signing of Durant.

    Additionally, I'd like to see something in place to stop players opting out and then signing again at the same team for less. If they opt out they can either sign for more or move elsewhere.

    And the luxury tax should not be allowed to go over 50% (ideally even less) over the cap let alone the Warriors projection by 2021.
    Last edited by Eamer; 07-17-2017 at 03:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Two ideas I have are the oblivious franchise tag for up to two players. They get paid the max but for only one year. This can be used twice per player, so you get to keep them for two more years. I also like the all nba selection idea of just having two from that list unless the third player was drafted. Finally, the super max was a nice idea but really kills a salary cap especially for small market teams, I still think it is a great idea but instead of the entire super max counting against the salary cap, have it count as just a regular max contract. That way you reward the player and don't handcuff the team with a huge cap hit.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Question, how was KD able to sign as a FA to the Warriors that was over cap? He had no bird rights

    They are at 136 mil, 37 million over cap... guess the NBA might want to look at that for future changes.
    There's an exception called the non-Bird exception. It allows a team to sign any player who finishes the year with them to up to 120% of their previous salary and still be above the cap. That's why Durant coming out and saying he would take less than his max was so important. By doing that, they didn't need to use cap space anymore for him and could use the non-Bird exception instead.

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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Idea

    Using a hard cap merely for balance only. All excess revenues that players are to earn is given out at year end to each team evenly. Then each team give out based on starting, performance, minutes played. This percentage bases would be some what complex, but structured the same for each team.

    This would calm down the crazy bad, inflated contracts (Portland), yet reward performance for all players.
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    Default Re: Small market teams to struggle against super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The NBA has had replay for 15 years. The NFL is also complicit in some of its best players killing themselves. But whatever makes you feel better...
    And the NFL puts a much more competitive, enjoyable product on the field than the NBA currently does with it's gimmicks and WWE style competition and rules.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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