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Thread: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    The JOB teams were insufferable moreso because of the roster than the win/loss total, you should know that. We traded for quite possibly the two worst contracts in the league in one fell swoop, had no athleticism on the entire roster, played old guys over young players for no reason and had a highly unlikable coach...unlike Nate, JOB earned the dislike. There were only like two players with any upside to speak of.

    As for how many players will be here from now, I'd guess a lot more than 2-3. But you could play that game year to year, it means nothing. You never know what's going to work and when a team is going to change its direction.
    Agree with most of this, except there only being 2 players with upside on the roster

    Danny Granger
    Roy Hibbert
    Brandon Rush
    Tyler Hansbrough
    AJ Price
    Josh McRoberts
    Darren Collison
    Jarret Jack


    And probably more. Plenty of young talent on those teams. He just didn't play them enough.
    Lifelong pacers fan

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchConnection View Post
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    You're right. I just checked.
    Jonathan Bender (maybe not technically, but the same situation.)
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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Jonathan Bender (maybe not technically, but the same situation.)
    I though about that, but we had to trade AD for that pick. The point was that we pick too often in the late lottery and never in the single digits. And the pacers are in fact the only team to not "earn" a single digit pick since 1989.


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  5. #29
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchConnection View Post
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    You're right. I just checked.
    You sure?


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers_heath View Post
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    Agree with most of this, except there only being 2 players with upside on the roster

    Danny Granger
    Roy Hibbert
    Brandon Rush
    Tyler Hansbrough
    AJ Price
    Josh McRoberts
    Darren Collison
    Jarret Jack


    And probably more. Plenty of young talent on those teams. He just didn't play them enough.
    Even though James Posey was getting killed. I don't remember what game that was, but the entire forum turned on JOB in one voice, lol.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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  9. #31
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Even though James Posey was getting killed. I don't remember what game that was, but the entire forum turned on JOB in one voice, lol.
    James Posey on Blake Griffin? JOB saying before the game that they were going to dare him? And then he lit us up for 42 or 43 if I remember correct.
    Yay, we don't know what we're doing as a franchise! thanks PG!

  10. #32
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    You sure?
    I listed all the teams and scanned all the drafts from 1989-2017, checking each team off when the picked in the top 9. Every team had a pick in the top nine that they got without a trade except for the Pacers.


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  12. #33
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    unlike Nate, JOB earned the dislike.
    Ok, as someone who has always been against making Nate the coach I feel the need to clarify something. I don't dislike Nate. He isn't a bad coach. I don't blame him for our failed season. I just don't think that he's the coach that can take our young players to the next level. He just isn't a good coach. He's simply average.
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So maybe they win 35 games the next two years. That is what we were when JOB was coach and was anyone happy? No one I know.
    The stunning, staggering, ridiculous problems that were JOB had little to do with the number of games we won. That was about 8th on the list.
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchConnection View Post
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    I listed all the teams and scanned all the drafts from 1989-2017, checking each team off when the picked in the top 9. Every team had a pick in the top nine that they got without a trade except for the Pacers.


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    You're kinda switching the goal posts here. The larger alleged point was that we can't win without single digit draft picks, and we haven't had one since 1989. Well, we have. And he was a disaster.
    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference


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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    You're kinda switching the goal posts here. The larger alleged point was that we can't win without single digit draft picks, and we haven't had one since 1989. Well, we have. And he was a disaster.
    This is where I think you are wrong. People keep arguing against needing high draft picks in order to compete and calling Oladipo and Sabonis high draft picks to justify something. No one thinks you need high draft picks to compete. You need great players to compete. It just so happens the easiest way of getting great players is to have high draft picks.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    I will say that I am confident enough in this team that I will bet the Over on the Pacers win loss record when I go to Vegas next weekend
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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  21. #38
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    I just wish we had a great coach I believed in. And I'm completely on board with giving Nate a chance, he should get more than one season with us before we judge. But even I would be more confident with Vogel. Or just about any other candidates at the time. BUT, if we trust KP, which I think many do, we kinda have to trust the Nate hire.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I just wish we had a great coach I believed in. And I'm completely on board with giving Nate a chance, he should get more than one season with us before we judge. But even I would be more confident with Vogel. Or just about any other candidates at the time. BUT, if we trust KP, which I think many do, we kinda have to trust the Nate hire.
    This drives me crazy. Why should he get more than one season with us before we judge him? He's coached over 1,000 NBA games--we know what the guy is, and we know what he isn't.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    You're kinda switching the goal posts here. The larger alleged point was that we can't win without single digit draft picks, and we haven't had one since 1989. Well, we have. And he was a disaster.
    My original post was just to confirm Sollazzo's suspicion that we are the only team to not have a single digit draft pick since 1989. Going through all the drafts like I did, the most striking thing is how little that determines long term success. For instance, I don't think that the Pacers fortunes would have been any different if they would have had the 4th pick in 1998 and taken Antawn Jamison. Larry Hughes was picked before Paul Pierce. If having high draft picks ensured success, the Nets and Clippers would have competing dynasties. 1998 had two players that could lead a team to a title (Dirk and Pierce) and they were picked 9 and 10. Small market teams have to pick right and get a group of guys that all hit in the same window. We've done that three times. KP has to do it a fourth.

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  26. #41
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    This drives me crazy. Why should he get more than one season with us before we judge him? He's coached over 1,000 NBA games--we know what the guy is, and we know what he isn't.
    Because in life, people can learn things when they practice their craft for a decade and then re-enter their field. Nate coached USA and was an assistant as the pace and landscape of the NBA changed. It would be absurd to not factor that in.

    And further, Nate was not an unsuccesful coach. If you think so, go look at the injuries and matchups he dealt with in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I just wish we had a great coach I believed in. And I'm completely on board with giving Nate a chance, he should get more than one season with us before we judge. But even I would be more confident with Vogel. Or just about any other candidates at the time. BUT, if we trust KP, which I think many do, we kinda have to trust the Nate hire.
    I agree, but we have a completely new roster that is more balanced and complement each other. Add in that the FO had a different culture and direction in how it wants the team to be run, I will gives Nate a second chance. We have a fresh start now and will approach Nate the same way.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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  30. #43
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    This drives me crazy. Why should he get more than one season with us before we judge him? He's coached over 1,000 NBA games--we know what the guy is, and we know what he isn't.
    My thinking is, might as well keep Nate around during this rebuilding/retooling phase, then hire someone else later. Nate was signed for 3 years only I believe, so unless he's extended he's not going to be around for much longer.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    BUT, if we trust KP, which I think many do, we kinda have to trust the Nate hire.
    Why? Bird was the one who called the shots when Nate was hired, not KP.
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    My thinking is, might as well keep Nate around during this rebuilding/retooling phase, then hire someone else later. Nate was signed for 3 years only I believe, so unless he's extended he's not going to be around for much longer.
    Yeah, I don't have much of a problem with that line of thinking. My gripe is with people who think Nate is suddenly going to have things click into place 11 years into his NBA coaching career. Guys learn, evolve, and all that, but he's shown his colors on good teams, rebuilding teams, not so good teams, etc. He's just mediocre.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Yeah, I don't have much of a problem with that line of thinking. My gripe is with people who think Nate is suddenly going to have things click into place 11 years into his NBA coaching career. Guys learn, evolve, and all that, but he's shown his colors on good teams, rebuilding teams, not so good teams, etc. He's just mediocre.
    Has he? People change and learn. I'm looking at the fact that he was a competitive coach in the Western Conference at one point in his coaching career. I refuse to gloss over that, and pretend he's a "medicore" coach. I'm going to give him a pass on last season, and give him a clean slate since he was involved in the construction of this teams roster.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Ok, as someone who has always been against making Nate the coach I feel the need to clarify something. I don't dislike Nate. He isn't a bad coach. I don't blame him for our failed season. I just don't think that he's the coach that can take our young players to the next level. He just isn't a good coach. He's simply average.
    You certainly have a right to feel that way. But there's not feeling great about the coach and then there's outright disliking the coach, and I've seen quite a few posters who just dislike him entirely for some reason.

  38. #48
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Don't look now but the pacers blow donkey balls

    Just kidding...kinda...
    Lifelong pacers fan

  39. #49
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Why? Bird was the one who called the shots when Nate was hired, not KP.
    I mean, you really think that was laying the track for KP? Nate is very clearly a KP guy, we've brought in several people from his Blazer days.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Has he? People change and learn. I'm looking at the fact that he was a competitive coach in the Western Conference at one point in his coaching career. I refuse to gloss over that, and pretend he's a "medicore" coach. I'm going to give him a pass on last season, and give him a clean slate since he was involved in the construction of this teams roster.
    Give him a clean slate. For ****'s sake you guys. Might as well go ahead and wipe the slate clean for this upcoming season--the team is rebuilding, he did not sign up for this, etc. What more do you have to see from this ****ing guy to know that he isn't very good? Seriously. What would it take? I'd love to know.

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