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Thread: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Give him a clean slate. For ****'s sake you guys. Might as well go ahead and wipe the slate clean for this upcoming season--the team is rebuilding, he did not sign up for this, etc. What more do you have to see from this ****ing guy to know that he isn't very good? Seriously. What would it take? I'd love to know.
    So how many games did Nate cost us last year? Should we have been a 50 win team?

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  3. #52

    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    5 teams locked for the playoffs:

    1. Celtics
    2. Cavs
    3. Wizards
    4. Bucks
    5. Heat


    #6, 7 & 8 seeds are up for grabs & the following teams will fight for them:
    Raptors, Pacers, Hornets, Pistons.


    Lottery bound:
    10. 76ers (might be able to put them with that 6/7/8 group actually but I think they are still 1 year away. They're not making the jump quite yet.)
    11. Nets
    Philly / Brooklyn will "impress" this year & play to win, while these bottom 4 will probably be positioning for ping pong balls all year.
    12. Knicks
    13. Magic
    14. Bulls
    15. Hawks
    Last edited by I Love P; 07-15-2017 at 07:17 PM.

  4. #53
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Nate isn't considered a contender caliber coach, but the fact that he is viewed as a bad coach exhibits the culture of today's sports. Either you're a perineal champion or you're trash.

    Nate has a winning record in 13 seasons.
    Last edited by freddielewis14; 07-15-2017 at 07:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    So how many games did Nate cost us last year? Should we have been a 50 win team?
    You could make a very strong case that he cost us two playoff games alone.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Nate is not a coach you want leading a contender because he will cost you.

    You can tell about where Nate ranks by comparing him to other Pacer coaches. He is probably a bit below our average.

    Good coaches
    Larry Brown
    Rick Carlisle
    Frank Vogel

    OK coach
    Larry Bird

    Below average coach
    Nate McMillan

    Bad coaches
    Jim O'Brien
    Isaiah Thomas
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    You could make a very strong case that he cost us two playoff games alone.
    Well goodness, you can make a strong case Vogel cost us a trip to the ECF the year before. Is Vogel a bad coach?

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Give him a clean slate. For ****'s sake you guys. Might as well go ahead and wipe the slate clean for this upcoming season--the team is rebuilding, he did not sign up for this, etc. What more do you have to see from this ****ing guy to know that he isn't very good? Seriously. What would it take? I'd love to know.
    The same amount of looking we gave Vogel before deeming him a coach that Indiana should have never let go...

    People complained the roster. People complained about the coaching. Which is it? He couldn't win due to the roster, or the roster didn't win like it should have due to the coaching?


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Well goodness, you can make a strong case Vogel cost us a trip to the ECF the year before. Is Vogel a bad coach?
    Explain to me how you would make that case, freddie. Lay it out for me.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    The same amount of looking we gave Vogel before deeming him a coach that Indiana should have never let go...

    People complained the roster. People complained about the coaching. Which is it? He couldn't win due to the roster, or the roster didn't win like it should have due to the coaching?
    Stop me if you've heard this before--but it was both. Shocking, I know.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Well goodness, you can make a strong case Vogel cost us a trip to the ECF the year before. Is Vogel a bad coach?
    Vogel did make some critical mistakes in that series with Toronto which is why I classify him a bit lower than most people. He is not a brilliant coach. He has a nice smile. He is a very nice guy. He can coach pretty well. He just isn't at the level of a Rick Carlisle, for example. He's just not as sharp. He cannot tie Larry Brown's shoes.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Explain to me how you would make that case, freddie. Lay it out for me.
    I will. Pretty easy to highlight Vogel misteps and why playoff PG would have bulldozed the Heat. But first you mind answering my 2 questions I've asked?

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    I hope we don't have people on this site who think Nate McMillan is remotely close to being as good a coach as Frank Vogel. Nate is lucky to have an NBA coaching gig. I'm not sure I understand how he is keeping his job. Frank Vogel, as much as I think he's overrated on this board, is a pretty hot commodity. And he's just better than Nate...clearly. If find it funny that Vogel was an interim head coach when really Nate should be that even now.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

  16. #63

    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    McMillan & Vogel both have no clue how to substitute. Half the battle is to know who to play & who not to play & they both suck at it. Any basketball coach worthy of a job is going to have plays/x's & o's ..... if you have the players you'll be fine, that's why NBA coaches don't really matter but the thing that does matter is knowing who to play, who not to play & when to take someone out or put in. They both have no clue what they're doing when it comes to that & that's why they both suck IMO. McMillan more so but he didn't cost us a playoff series like Vogel against Toronto.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Don't look now, but the Pacers aren't all that good.
    This space for rent.

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  19. #65
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I hope we don't have people on this site who think Nate McMillan is remotely close to being as good a coach as Frank Vogel. Nate is lucky to have an NBA coaching gig. I'm not sure I understand how he is keeping his job. Frank Vogel, as much as I think he's overrated on this board, is a pretty hot commodity. And he's just better than Nate...clearly. If find it funny that Vogel was an interim head coach when really Nate should be that even now.
    I said I would rather have Vogel, but if I'm being honest I can't really describe why. I can't tell you what Vogel did better than Nate.

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Stop me if you've heard this before--but it was both. Shocking, I know.
    So again I ask, how many games do you think that roster should have won?

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    McMillan & Vogel both have no clue how to substitute. Half the battle is to know who to play & who not to play & they both suck at it. Any basketball coach worthy of a job is going to have plays/x's & o's ..... if you have the players you'll be fine, that's why NBA coaches don't really matter but the thing that does matter is knowing who to play, who not to play & when to take someone out or put in. They both have no clue what they're doing when it comes to that & that's why they both suck IMO. McMillan more so but he didn't cost us a playoff series like Vogel against Toronto.
    I disagree with most of your posts, but this is a good one. Yes, they are not good at substitutions. Larry Brown was brilliant at that. Rick Carlisle had his flaws but could do it. Vogel has shown to a lesser degree that he can do that well.

    I will give this to Nate. He isn't nearly as bad as Jim O'Brien. At least Nate didn't put idiot lineups out there, wondering why his teams were always terrible. I realize Jim didn't have great talent but he underperformed badly. Terrible to the players too. It is good JOb is retired.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I said I would rather have Vogel, but if I'm being honest I can't really describe why. I can't tell you what Vogel did better than Nate.
    His coaching instincts are a little better. I think he's better working with the players. A better people person obviously. I think he's above average in the current NBA. Nate is probably around the 25th percentile. Nate isn't as bad as JOb or Zeke. Nate is more like the assistant coach.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    His coaching instincts are a little better. I think he's better working with the players. A better people person obviously. I think he's above average in the current NBA. Nate is probably around the 25th percentile. Nate isn't as bad as JOb or Zeke. Nate is more like the assistant coach.
    I mean, how do you know Nate isn't a people person. And the biggest knock against Vogel is terrible in game instincts. Like when he called a timeout game 7 v Raptors when we had a 3 man advantage fast break to win the game.

  24. #70

    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    I wasn't neccesarily against the promotion of Nate to head coach but the way it happened was just asinine. The "players tune a coach out after 3 years" montra made no sense AT ALL considering there were only three players left on the team that made it to the ECF 3 years before (Lavoy, PG, Solo). To then promote someone who was already on that same coaching staff to head coach further flies in the face of the 3 year rule. The entire thing was botched.

    As for Nate himself, I do believe he is a far better coach than last season's record indicated. When your best player:

    A) does not buy in 100% with what the coach is trying to do
    B) does not execute the plan with any gumption or enthusiasm
    C) some combination of the two

    it really cuts your legs out from under neath you. I think now that the cloud of PG is no longer hanging around, Nate should enjoy more clout with the players than last year.

    Lastly, Nate served as an assistant coach for team USA on 2 gold medal winning teams. To be regarded as one of the 5-6 best coaches in the country is no small feather in the cap. This alone gives me hope. I feel that this upcoming season should be a more accurate representation of Nate's coaching ability. For better or for worse.
    Last edited by Phree Refill; 07-15-2017 at 09:01 PM.

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  26. #71
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I mean, how do you know Nate isn't a people person. And the biggest knock against Vogel is terrible in game instincts. Like when he called a timeout game 7 v Raptors when we had a 3 man advantage fast break to win the game.
    He has no personality. He has nothing insightful to say when asked. Sorry, but that's my read on him. Very blah/boring.

    Edit: I agree Vogel is not particularly good with in-game decisions. I view Nate as putting the team on auto-pilot. Probably worse.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Oh...and I could tell with both JOb and Zeke. Nate McMillan's last NBA head coaching job is the one he currently holds. I guarantee you. Quote this.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    You certainly have a right to feel that way. But there's not feeling great about the coach and then there's outright disliking the coach, and I've seen quite a few posters who just dislike him entirely for some reason.
    Hey, I cannot talk for everyone. I do feel that the majority doesn't outright dislike Nate, though. They just think that he was a very disappointing hire.

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I mean, you really think that was laying the track for KP? Nate is very clearly a KP guy, we've brought in several people from his Blazer days.
    I don't think that Bird hired Nate for KP. I believe that Bird hired Nate for Bird. Larry was looking for someone who would do exactly as he told him and Nate fit that bill since he was grateful to return a second chance at a head coaching position.
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  29. #74
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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Hey, I cannot talk for everyone. I do feel that the majority doesn't outright dislike Nate, though. They just think that he was a very disappointing hire.



    I don't think that Bird hired Nate for KP. I believe that Bird hired Nate for Bird. Larry was looking for someone who would do exactly as he told him and Nate fit that bill since he was grateful to return a second chance at a head coaching position.
    Then why is Nate still the coach?

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    Default Re: Don't look now, but Pacers aren't all that bad

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Nate isn't considered a contender caliber coach, but the fact that he is viewed as a bad coach exhibits the culture of today's sports. Either you're a perineal champion or you're trash.

    Nate has a winning record in 13 seasons.
    Sigh. Who exactly called him a bad coach? It certainly wasn't me or cdash. Heck, it wasn't even BlueNGold. No one's saying that Nate's a bad coach. Well, some of the more knee-jerky posters on the forum may say stuff like that but like always we can ignore that. Nate isn't JOB. He's just an average coach. There's nothing wrong with that but it's just not something you really want around young players. You want coaches that can help them improve and reach new heights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    People complained the roster. People complained about the coaching. Which is it? He couldn't win due to the roster, or the roster didn't win like it should have due to the coaching?
    As cdash said, it was both. Last year's roster wasn't build to win anything and Nate didn't help either.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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