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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

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  • The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

    We can all agree that going from Paul George/CJ Miles to Bojan Bogdanovic/Glen Robinson III is a huge step down.

    But looking at the other spots, are we sure we aren't better at 3, maybe even 4 other positions?

    Let's start with the one I think is most debatable: Point guard. Jeff Teague and Aaron Brooks, now Darren Collison and Cory Joseph (which one ends up starting is debatable). While Teague is almost certainly better than DC or Joseph, are we sure that Teague + Brooks is > DC + Joseph? I think this is debatable, but it's still interesting that it's even a debate IMO.

    Then let's look elsewhere. Shooting guard. We had Monta Ellis and Rodney Stuckey for most of last year, now we have Victor Oladipo and Lance Stephenson. Is this even a question? I don't think it is; I think it's a big step up.

    Next, power forward. It appears for the moment that Thaddeus Young may stick around after all, so he remains the same, and I'm not sure he'll be better or worse than last year. Hopefully his wrist is healed up. That means looking at the backup spot. Last year, that was usually LaVoy Allen, now it could be Domantas Sabonis or TJ Leaf. At the moment, none of them are exciting names, yet I have to think almost everyone here would prefer Sabonis or Leaf over Allen.

    Lastly, center. Myles Turner 2018 should be better than Myles Turner 2017 unless something goes horribly wrong. Behind him we had Al Jefferson and then eventually Kevin Seraphin last year. Now it may still be them, or it may be Sabonis. Collectively, this would appear to be a net gain, and it's more a question of if it's a slight gain or a larger gain depending on how Myles improves, how Seraphin or Sabonis does, and the biggest long shot, if Al is actually in good shape this year. Nothing spectacularly different here, but it's hard to argue that it's worse, and it's probably at least marginally better.

    There's no getting around that the overall talent is down until proven otherwise, but on a position by position basis, it's not nearly as gloomy as it may immediately appear, no?

    If nothing else, we should have better depth, shooting, and defense in the back court, and hopefully improved play in the front court, if even a little. If Myles has a leap year, this could be dramatic, but I'm not quite ready to expect that just yet.

    Truthfully, the only part that really horrifies me is defense at SF with Bogdanovic because going from Paul to that is just... brutal. If we're lucky, Glen Robinson has a better year, and if he does he just might earn the starting role before the year is over, and bring superior athleticism an defense along with him, which would certainly help.

    Or maybe we're going to win 20 games. But there's definitely some encouraging things to consider, right?

    I'm hoping the pieces fit better than last year's pieces as well, which would obviously help. The biggest question to me is if Nate goes back to a fast game like he tried last year. If he does, and if it sticks around all year, things could get pretty interesting.

  • #2
    Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

    The bench should be much improved, and there are going to be guys pushing each other for playing time. Imagine that, competition!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

      I think the point guard position is undoubtedly better. I'm also thinking there's a chance that CoJo winds up better than Teague, even if points and assists aren't as high.

      Won't know for certain, but I think this is a breakout year for CoJo.

      And I think all the other positions are upgrades as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

        I think it's likely the Pacers end up with about the same record as last year.


        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

          Wings as a whole:

          PG
          CJ
          Monta
          GR3

          Vs.

          Oladipo
          Lance
          Bogdonavic
          GR3

          Obviously we got worse because we lost PG. But I definitely like Lance > Monta and GR3 should improve. Haven't seen enough of Bogdonavic to have a huge opinion he vs CJ.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

            We are 100 million dollars in debt at the SF position. But don't worry - we saved $500 combined at all other positions. We're about even.
            Lifelong pacers fan

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

              Our defense at the guard positions will be much, much better. The PF position is a little better. The players on the team fit together much better. That combination will help the weakness at the SF position out.

              Personally, I think Lance is a better fit with CoJo and Victor. That would be a very good defense people. Also, CoJo and Victor are offensive minded players. Bojan is too. Lance is a passer. Come on.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

                Our arms got stronger but that doesn't make up for having our foot chopped off.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

                  ^^ OR .......... it's like getting that boil in the crack of your butt removed. It's gonna hurt for a while, but the long term results are better than keeping it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

                    Originally posted by PacersHomer View Post
                    Our arms got stronger but that doesn't make up for having our foot chopped off.
                    Depends. Are you jogging or doing hand-over-hand on a ladder bar?
                    BillS

                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

                      There are different ways to judge how good a team is going to be in the future. One way to do it is to it position by position, player by player. You often see that prior to a playoff series. Team A could be better at 3 of the 5 starting positions, and Team A might have a better bench. So does that mean Team A is better than team B. Not really, maybe. If team B is the Thunder and you have Westbrook and PG dominating the games and it could be a huge mismatch.

                      The way I like to judge a team when I am trying to determine how they are going to be. I judge a team by looking at their best player, their second best player and maybe their third best player. I do that first and foremost. I don't really care in the macro sense who the 7th man is, or even who their 5th best starter is.

                      And when I do that with the Pacers, they really fall short. Who will be the Pacers best player. Turner, Dipo, Lance, who? You can pick whoever you like and I would argue our best player is one of the worst best players in the NBA. So this Pacers team will struggle. We don't have a star player or even close to one. We don't have nearly enough three point shooting to compete in todays NBA. We have too many poor defenders. Our best defender? is probably Cory Joseph. And he likely only play 20-25 minutes per game. Dipo is a good defender I would rate him second best, but he is not great, I would certainly rate him behind George Hill and PG.

                      So if this team wins 30 plus games that would be a major accomplishment.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                        There are different ways to judge how good a team is going to be in the future. One way to do it is to it position by position, player by player. You often see that prior to a playoff series. Team A could be better at 3 of the 5 starting positions, and Team A might have a better bench. So does that mean Team A is better than team B. Not really, maybe. If team B is the Thunder and you have Westbrook and PG dominating the games and it could be a huge mismatch.

                        The way I like to judge a team when I am trying to determine how they are going to be. I judge a team by looking at their best player, their second best player and maybe their third best player. I do that first and foremost. I don't really care in the macro sense who the 7th man is, or even who their 5th best starter is.

                        And when I do that with the Pacers, they really fall short. Who will be the Pacers best player. Turner, Dipo, Lance, who? You can pick whoever you like and I would argue our best player is one of the worst best players in the NBA. So this Pacers team will struggle. We don't have a star player or even close to one. We don't have nearly enough three point shooting to compete in todays NBA. We have too many poor defenders. Our best defender? is probably Cory Joseph. And he likely only play 20-25 minutes per game. Dipo is a good defender I would rate him second best, but he is not great, I would certainly rate him behind George Hill and PG.

                        So if this team wins 30 plus games that would be a major accomplishment.
                        I get what you are saying. I will leave you with one word and that word is Chemistry. It may take a little time but once is kicks in this team will be better than the sum of its parts. I think 30-40 wins is very doable and likely.
                        {o,o}
                        |)__)
                        -"-"-

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

                          Originally posted by owl View Post
                          I get what you are saying. I will leave you with one word and that word is Chemistry. It may take a little time but once is kicks in this team will be better than the sum of its parts. I think 30-40 wins is very doable and likely.
                          First we don't know if the chemistry will be good. You never know until you know. Second, I will mentioned the Nets last season had great chemistry, they played hard every night, they played the right way, all those intangibles they were good and yet they won 20 games - because their talent level was terrible.

                          My only point is this. if everything comes together this season. Chemistry is great, coaching, great, they play the right way, players get better. Injuries are minimal. IMO they still only win in the low 30's - maybe 35 at the absolute most - but that is if all the intangibles are perfect.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

                            Originally posted by owl View Post
                            I get what you are saying. I will leave you with one word and that word is Chemistry. It may take a little time but once is kicks in this team will be better than the sum of its parts. I think 30-40 wins is very doable and likely.
                            The Pacers with Reggie, rarely had the best player and second best player. They might have the best 3rd and 4th, and a great bench. And the chemistry you speak so highly of took nearly 5 years to develop. It took getting McKey and Mullin, waiting on Smits and Antonio, and having Jalen and Best as your core bench h help. The NBA is compeltly different now. It was a crock pot then, it is a full blown microwave now. The Warriors took how long from when Thompson got drafted to contend?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The talent drop at small forward is massive... but what about the other positions?

                              Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                              The Pacers with Reggie, rarely had the best player and second best player. They might have the best 3rd and 4th, and a great bench. And the chemistry you speak so highly of took nearly 5 years to develop. It took getting McKey and Mullin, waiting on Smits and Antonio, and having Jalen and Best as your core bench h help. The NBA is compeltly different now. It was a crock pot then, it is a full blown microwave now. The Warriors took how long from when Thompson got drafted to contend?

                              Last years chemistry was terrible so I feel pretty confident this year will be better. Two players are gone that were not much on chemistry.
                              UB says the talent is weak at best. Well time will tell on that also.
                              In any case we are arguing about what the record will be. UB thinks 35 tops. We are not talking about contending.That is very doable in my mind.
                              Last edited by owl; 07-13-2017, 10:45 AM.
                              {o,o}
                              |)__)
                              -"-"-

                              Comment

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