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Thread: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

  1. #376

    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by crunk-juice View Post
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    Do the OKC people realize he's a two faced piece of **** who is lying to their faces?

    He gave a PC response I didn't really expect him to do otherwise. Regardless why do you assume OKC fans think PG is going to stay I bet most don't believe he will and will enjoy having him alongside Russell for this season with the potential to do something great.

    Some people enjoy things as they are even if its fleeting.

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  3. #377
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Paul might not leave. They bring in another star there and they could contend with golden state. People will want to come play with PG and Westbrook.
    Lifelong pacers fan

  4. #378

    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers_heath View Post
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    Paul might not leave. They bring in another star there and they could contend with golden state. People will want to come play with PG and Westbrook.
    Yeah, people will want to play with Russ and PG in LA.

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  6. #379
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I hate seeing pictures of PG in a Thunder uniform. Hate it.
    Well he might very well be in a Lakers uniform next season, so...

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    if Lance breaks PG's ankles he's going to become a folk hero. and Lord knows he's gonna try. and I'm here for it.

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    All this "Russ and I will decide free agency together" talk from PG is kind of worrisome if you're a Thunder fan.

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by crunk-juice View Post
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    Do the OKC people realize he's a two faced piece of **** who is lying to their faces?
    Do you have this same kind of response when a franchise claims they aren't trading/shopping a player and then end up trading him?

    Or how about when they say "we will do everything in our power to re-sign player x" only to give him a low ball offer?

    Everyone gives the PC response, both players and franchises. Is all posturing until its decision making time

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  13. #383

    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    It used to be easy to figure this stuff out. It WAS all about the money.

    Now that salaries are so far out of control, a million here or there really doesn't matter. Now, it's 'Well, I'm not good enough to contend for a title by myself, so I'll join up with a good team and see where that goes. A few million less ?? That's OK - I'll make it up in some kind of endorsement.'

  14. #384

    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    All this "Russ and I will decide free agency together" talk from PG is kind of worrisome if you're a Thunder fan.
    No kidding. The virus has started to spread.

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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  17. #386
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Last statement from PG "I'm going to give everything I have while I'm here. This has a chance to be home, this has a chance to be something special."

    I believe that if they get to game 7 of WCF or some **** like that he'll stay, but he knows they won't and is already mentally prepared to be a Laker.

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    All this "Russ and I will decide free agency together" talk from PG is kind of worrisome if you're a Thunder fan.
    The thing is, Russ has to sign his extension before season. ESON OKC writer Young says it's likely. If he doesn't...then that's huge.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Too many things to quote here, so I will work without antecedents and hope people know what is and is not referring to them.

    The idea that you max out a player for multiple years to "take a risk" is exactly how you get into cap hell when it doesn't work out. I interpret "going after max players" as "going after guys who are not YET the max and offering it to them". Players already making the max have very little incentive to move on. I think it is perfectly reasonable to want to be sure that player is going to do more than just eat up salary for 4 years. The fact that we overpaid worse players is ENTIRELY ON LARRY BIRD. I really doubt Herb said to go get middling players instead of good players and Bird said "yup, yup, yo Boss!"

    The other problem with taking a risk is that when it blows up in your face no one forgives you for it. We took a huge risk on Artest and coulda woulda shoulda had a championship with that team until he went off the rails. Now there are folks wanting us to take the same kind of risk with players who have some of the same types of behavior issues - if it works you're a genius but if it doesn't you are the stupidest GM in the league AND it sets the franchise back years.

    There's another opined "strategy" that I never can understand, which is to draft a prospect, bring him along until he starts to reach his peak, and then trade him for another prospect before the original guy's trade value drops. You basically never have a team that way - you just have a revolving door of prospects. Some people may enjoy watching that, but it is no more likely to result in a championship than trying to keep a team to grow together.

    Donnie was denigrated for never making that last step to put his teams over the top. I usually disagreed because being perennially in the top 4 means to me that you are at the level where you need some luck to go your way and that a tweak could just as easily knock you out of contention. Where Donnie finally lost it was that player needs and perspective passed him by - his method of building a team stopped working because players no longer thought the way they used to.

    I knock Bird because I think he really had no clue what makes a solid team, especially with new player attitudes and the changing game on the court. To get Herb to spend, Bird needed to be willing to present him with a plan that was going to get us somewhere other than paying the LT for 3-4 years with nothing to show for it. I think Bird was unwilling to do that, and Herb was not about to say the equivalent of "Here's an extra $10M (that is costing me $25M due to losing non-tax subsidy and paying the tax), now throw some players together and we'll see what you can do." It had to start with a plan from the GM/Pres.

    I think KP has the ability to put together such a plan. I am expecting to see a very different way of doing business. I think we are already seeing a cap management plan the likes of which we have never seen before.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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  21. #389
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Too many things to quote here, so I will work without antecedents and hope people know what is and is not referring to them.

    The idea that you max out a player for multiple years to "take a risk" is exactly how you get into cap hell when it doesn't work out. I interpret "going after max players" as "going after guys who are not YET the max and offering it to them". Players already making the max have very little incentive to move on. I think it is perfectly reasonable to want to be sure that player is going to do more than just eat up salary for 4 years.
    But if you never go after max level talent you will not keep your star. It matters if you show your player you will do whatever it takes.

    The fact that we overpaid worse players is ENTIRELY ON LARRY BIRD. I really doubt Herb said to go get middling players instead of good players and Bird said "yup, yup, yo Boss!"
    It doesn't matter if Simon wanted to spend on max guys or not. Bird is quoted saying they are on a budget and can't compete with the money big markets spend. But if you don't believe that, SIMON STILL EMPLOYS BIRD.

    The other problem with taking a risk is that when it blows up in your face no one forgives you for it. We took a huge risk on Artest and coulda woulda shoulda had a championship with that team until he went off the rails. Now there are folks wanting us to take the same kind of risk with players who have some of the same types of behavior issues - if it works you're a genius but if it doesn't you are the stupidest GM in the league AND it sets the franchise back years.

    There's another opined "strategy" that I never can understand, which is to draft a prospect, bring him along until he starts to reach his peak, and then trade him for another prospect before the original guy's trade value drops. You basically never have a team that way - you just have a revolving door of prospects. Some people may enjoy watching that, but it is no more likely to result in a championship than trying to keep a team to grow together.

    Donnie was denigrated for never making that last step to put his teams over the top. I usually disagreed because being perennially in the top 4 means to me that you are at the level where you need some luck to go your way and that a tweak could just as easily knock you out of contention. Where Donnie finally lost it was that player needs and perspective passed him by - his method of building a team stopped working because players no longer thought the way they used to.

    I knock Bird because I think he really had no clue what makes a solid team, especially with new player attitudes and the changing game on the court. To get Herb to spend, Bird needed to be willing to present him with a plan that was going to get us somewhere other than paying the LT for 3-4 years with nothing to show for it. I think Bird was unwilling to do that, and Herb was not about to say the equivalent of "Here's an extra $10M (that is costing me $25M due to losing non-tax subsidy and paying the tax), now throw some players together and we'll see what you can do." It had to start with a plan from the GM/Pres.

    I think KP has the ability to put together such a plan. I am expecting to see a very different way of doing business. I think we are already seeing a cap management plan the likes of which we have never seen before.
    It's fine to highlight the problems with taking risks, but you also have to understand that players and fans will get frustrated with not ever being willing to go over the top.

    Also, and I know I keep repeating, they didn't have to announce several times a year their on a budget and just want to compete.

  22. #390
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Also, maxing guys and risk does not automatically equal cap hell if you're good at your job.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Also, and I know I keep repeating, they didn't have to announce several times a year their on a budget and just want to compete.
    I really start suspecting that this was used as an excuse.

    And I also don't recall the constant use of "just" in any statements. While around here "We want to be competitive" is INTERPRETED as meaning "we just want to make the playoffs", you don't get to substitute it as if it was actually said.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    If PG told me that the summer is going to be hot and humid, I wouldn't believe him. He's just completely full of crap.

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  26. #393
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Also, maxing guys and risk does not automatically equal cap hell if you're good at your job.
    How does that work? Give guys a one or two year contract and expect to beat out an offer with a longer guarantee? Go all in for one year and expect all your players and game plans to gel so no one is disappointed and goers elsewhere?

    Seems to me the only way that happens is if you are maxing guys no one else in the league wants to have anything to do with at that price - and while the armchair GMs think they are experts and could build a permanent championship team if the idiot professionals would just listen to them, it isn't that easy.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I really start suspecting that this was used as an excuse.

    And I also don't recall the constant use of "just" in any statements. While around here "We want to be competitive" is INTERPRETED as meaning "we just want to make the playoffs", you don't get to substitute it as if it was actually said.
    What I think really doesn't matter. Pacers do a bad job delivering a message that players want to hear. And that message should be "Despite being a small market we can position ourselves to get any player because we will do whatever it takes to win a championship."

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  29. #395
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    How does that work? Give guys a one or two year contract and expect to beat out an offer with a longer guarantee? Go all in for one year and expect all your players and game plans to gel so no one is disappointed and goers elsewhere?

    Seems to me the only way that happens is if you are maxing guys no one else in the league wants to have anything to do with at that price - and while the armchair GMs think they are experts and could build a permanent championship team if the idiot professionals would just listen to them, it isn't that easy.
    It works for teams that are creative and map out contract outs, and there are other ways to build. Trade for guys you can max and go into lux. Overpay a little then hit your picks and small signing out of the park. Use the dleague as well as the Spurs and other teams have over the years. Buy second round picks. Find cheap euro talent.

    But you have to be creative and go for homeruns instead of constantly hitting singles.

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    All this "Russ and I will decide free agency together" talk from PG is kind of worrisome if you're a Thunder fan.
    Kind of?

    Look I love this about face from the media that PG is going to really consider OKC, but it's the silliest **** in the world.



  31. #397
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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Paul is just doing the exact same thing he did while he was here, saying the right thing publicly.



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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Sorry but I'm laughing at PG talking like he and Russ are some kind of equals. "Discuss what we built"....my dude you just got there.



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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Also, maxing guys and risk does not automatically equal cap hell if you're good at your job.
    No it means you have a greater chance of being in cap hell than anything. Look at the NBA what two teams have won the title, gone to the finals multiple years, and been in cap hell? Portland, Lakers, Clippers, , and the Knicks went into cap hell and for what? To sell some tickets. We don't have the market or Paul Allen to fit the bill. Going over the cap and risking it on stars most likely won't get you a ring.

    Draft it. Develop players. Make emerging trades, have a team that a Max player would leave for. Iggy left Denver for the GSWs. Durant left for them. Lebron came back to the Cavs because of the players they drafted. You can't just sign MAX players without a base of young talent. I guarantee you that LAL won't get four stars. They might get Chris Paul, Paul George, and Lebron. They might get Russ and PG, and a cheap Chris Paul or Marc Gasol.

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    Default Re: Paul George On OKC, The Trade, And KD's Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Paul is just doing the exact same thing he did while he was here, saying the right thing publicly.
    It'll be worse during the off season. He's going to get wooed (wood) by every team with cap space, and I'm glad that the Pacers won't be one of them...
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