Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

New agreement

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • New agreement

    I am disapointed in the fact that I have not heard that there would be more than one man to rule by himself. I felt sure that there would be a pannel or something. But guess Sir David kept his white tower all to himself

  • #2
    Re: New agreement

    Eh, that'll never happen.

    But if it's the suspension-related stuff you're concerned about, there's a small amount of good news...

    Apparently, one of the new changes is that players who have been suspended for more than 12 games (for ANY reason I believe) now have the right to a ruling from an arbitrator. No more of this 'on-the-court' vs 'off-the-court' stuff.

    Not a huge improvement, I know, but it's about as much as could be expected.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New agreement

      David Stern's power was never an issue in the discussion. I don't understand why anyone here thought he'd have to give any power up.....

      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New agreement

        Originally posted by Kstat
        David Stern's power was never an issue in the discussion. I don't understand why anyone here thought he'd have to give any power up.....
        Oh I don't know.....maybe it's because he completely misused his power to gut our team and ruin our very legitimate championship aspirations. It's very easy for fans of other teams, especially Pistons homers like you, to find no fault with what he did. Look at it objectively for once. What if Stern had suspended Ben Wallace for the season instead while leaving our team intact? Wouldn't you be angry? Of course you would. When a man uses power like that, why should anyone expect him to keep it? That's what I don't understand.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New agreement

          Originally posted by travmil
          Oh I don't know.....maybe it's because he completely misused his power to gut our team and ruin our very legitimate championship aspirations. It's very easy for fans of other teams, especially Pistons homers like you, to find no fault with what he did. Look at it objectively for once. What if Stern had suspended Ben Wallace for the season instead while leaving our team intact? Wouldn't you be angry? Of course you would. When a man uses power like that, why should anyone expect him to keep it? That's what I don't understand.
          Perhaps you weren't listening. Take a

          I never said I didn't understand why some people would WANT Stern's power reduced.

          I said I didn't understand why you would think he WOULD get his power reduced.

          Clearly, this was never something the union cared about. It was never an issue at any point, per media reports. The Pacers don't like him, but clearly, a very good percentage of the league DOES.

          The players now get the arbitration option, which the Pacers wound up getting anyway last year. That's about as much as you could have realistically hoped for.

          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New agreement

            Originally posted by Kstat
            Perhaps you weren't listening.

            I never said I didn't understand why some people would WANT Stern's power reduced.

            I said I didn't understand why you would think he WOULD get his power reduced.

            Clearly, this was never something the union cared about. It was never an issue at any point, per media reports. The Pacers don't like him, but clearly, a very good percentage of the league DOES.

            The players now get the arbitration option, which the Pacers wound up getting anyway last year. That's about as much as you could have realistically hoped for.
            You're trying to tell me that the union asked for no way to fight Sterns absolute iron fist rule? That's simply not true.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New agreement

              Originally posted by travmil
              You're trying to tell me that the union asked for no way to fight Sterns absolute iron fist rule? That's simply not true.
              .....why would they ASK for something that's already there?

              And Stern does NOT have an iron fist. There is an arbitration option now. Of course, the Pacers had arbitration last year anyway, so it's not a big deal.

              And if you think the union demanded stern give up absolute power on handing out suspensions, you're kidding yourself. They were after the escrow, a higher salary cap, and the luxury tax. Stern's power likely never even entered the discussion.

              It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

              Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
              Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
              NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New agreement

                Originally posted by Kstat
                .....why would they ASK for something that's already there?

                And Stern does NOT have an iron fist. There is an arbitration option now. Of course, the Pacers had arbitration last year anyway, so it's not a big deal.

                And if you think the union demanded stern give up absolute power on handing out suspensions, you're kidding yourself. They were after the escrow, a higher salary cap, and the luxury tax. Stern's power likely never even entered the discussion.
                There is arbitration NOW. At the time of the brawl, the NBA was trying to say the suspended players and teams had no right to arbitration, and threatened legal action if the arbitrator ruled against them. Stern wisely chose not to force the issue, and now has given guaranteed arbitration for long suspensions to the union. What part of this are you not getting? If you think that this concession has nothing to do with the brawl and the fallout from it, you are the one that's kidding yourself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New agreement

                  Originally posted by travmil
                  There is arbitration NOW. At the time of the brawl, the NBA was trying to say the suspended players and teams had no right to arbitration, and threatened legal action if the arbitrator ruled against them. Stern wisely chose not to force the issue, and now has given guaranteed arbitration for long suspensions to the union. What part of this are you not getting? If you think that this concession has nothing to do with the brawl and the fallout from it, you are the one that's kidding yourself.

                  wait, now you're saying that there ARE concessions? I'm confused. Weren't you just fuming over the fact that Stern got to keep his "iron fist?"

                  It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                  Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                  Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                  NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New agreement

                    Originally posted by Kstat
                    wait, now you're saying that there ARE concessions? I'm confused. Weren't you just fuming over the fact that Stern got to keep his "iron fist?"
                    For the most part he did. This really is a small concession. It would make a difference though if Stern tried to do the same thing again. In almost every other way, it's still business as usual in Stern's office.

                    [edit] and I wasn't really fuming about anything. [/edit]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New agreement

                      Originally posted by travmil
                      For the most part he did. This really is a small concession. It would make a difference though if Stern tried to do the same thing again. In almost every other way, it's still business as usual in Stern's office.

                      [edit] and I wasn't really fuming about anything. [/edit]
                      If the guaranteed arbitrator compromise is true, then I think that it is a rather huge concession. The owners agreed to allow an arbitrator to overrule Stern's ruling. Arbitrators are 100% independent of both the NBA and the Players Association. Stern DOES NOT have absolulte power in any way. The arbitrator can tell Stern to shove it or he/she can uphold his ruling.
                      "If I have the ball, I will shoot it, you have to believe that," - Stephen Jackson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New agreement

                        I think I'd prefer the automatic arbitration rule to kick in a little deeper... say 15 or even 20 games. I think that would actually discourage knee jerk reactions and major length suspensions from Stern unless he really really really felt it was warranted.

                        So A: it would force him to think about it longer and B: it would give him a target to where his ruling would have less chance to be challenged (IOW, force him to be a little more certain of his position).

                        -Bball
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New agreement

                          This is the new rule relating to an arbitrator, as described by Marc Stein:

                          Stern likewise wound up sacrificing some of his absolute power in doling out punishments for on-court misconduct. Suspensions longer than 12 games, as meted out to Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson in November after The Malice of Auburn Hills, can be challenged to a neutral arbitrator starting next season.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New agreement

                            The Simons may not be as friendly with Stern anymore, but I'll bet they can't name anybody better for that job.

                            Stern isn't perfect, and from what I hear Jesus and Bono each have bigger things to worry about than the NBA.

                            But Stern and Tagliabue are still neck-and-neck for the best commissioners, so overall I think the union and owners still want him in charge, just with a better-defined check and balance system for "the biggies".
                            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                            And life itself, rushing over me
                            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: New agreement

                              I wouldn't mind if there was a rule that said any situation where Stern feels the player deserves more than 10 games off, he has to wait until after those first 10 games have been served before deciding how long it will ultimately be. That way there won't be as many knee-jerk reactions that cost a season.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X