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Thread: New agreement

  1. #1
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    Angry New agreement

    I am disapointed in the fact that I have not heard that there would be more than one man to rule by himself. I felt sure that there would be a pannel or something. But guess Sir David kept his white tower all to himself

  2. #2
    Member rabid's Avatar
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    Default Re: New agreement

    Eh, that'll never happen.

    But if it's the suspension-related stuff you're concerned about, there's a small amount of good news...

    Apparently, one of the new changes is that players who have been suspended for more than 12 games (for ANY reason I believe) now have the right to a ruling from an arbitrator. No more of this 'on-the-court' vs 'off-the-court' stuff.

    Not a huge improvement, I know, but it's about as much as could be expected.

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    Default Re: New agreement

    David Stern's power was never an issue in the discussion. I don't understand why anyone here thought he'd have to give any power up.....

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: New agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    David Stern's power was never an issue in the discussion. I don't understand why anyone here thought he'd have to give any power up.....
    Oh I don't know.....maybe it's because he completely misused his power to gut our team and ruin our very legitimate championship aspirations. It's very easy for fans of other teams, especially Pistons homers like you, to find no fault with what he did. Look at it objectively for once. What if Stern had suspended Ben Wallace for the season instead while leaving our team intact? Wouldn't you be angry? Of course you would. When a man uses power like that, why should anyone expect him to keep it? That's what I don't understand.

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    Default Re: New agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil
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    Oh I don't know.....maybe it's because he completely misused his power to gut our team and ruin our very legitimate championship aspirations. It's very easy for fans of other teams, especially Pistons homers like you, to find no fault with what he did. Look at it objectively for once. What if Stern had suspended Ben Wallace for the season instead while leaving our team intact? Wouldn't you be angry? Of course you would. When a man uses power like that, why should anyone expect him to keep it? That's what I don't understand.
    Perhaps you weren't listening. Take a

    I never said I didn't understand why some people would WANT Stern's power reduced.

    I said I didn't understand why you would think he WOULD get his power reduced.

    Clearly, this was never something the union cared about. It was never an issue at any point, per media reports. The Pacers don't like him, but clearly, a very good percentage of the league DOES.

    The players now get the arbitration option, which the Pacers wound up getting anyway last year. That's about as much as you could have realistically hoped for.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: New agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Perhaps you weren't listening.

    I never said I didn't understand why some people would WANT Stern's power reduced.

    I said I didn't understand why you would think he WOULD get his power reduced.

    Clearly, this was never something the union cared about. It was never an issue at any point, per media reports. The Pacers don't like him, but clearly, a very good percentage of the league DOES.

    The players now get the arbitration option, which the Pacers wound up getting anyway last year. That's about as much as you could have realistically hoped for.
    You're trying to tell me that the union asked for no way to fight Sterns absolute iron fist rule? That's simply not true.

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    Default Re: New agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil
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    You're trying to tell me that the union asked for no way to fight Sterns absolute iron fist rule? That's simply not true.
    .....why would they ASK for something that's already there?

    And Stern does NOT have an iron fist. There is an arbitration option now. Of course, the Pacers had arbitration last year anyway, so it's not a big deal.

    And if you think the union demanded stern give up absolute power on handing out suspensions, you're kidding yourself. They were after the escrow, a higher salary cap, and the luxury tax. Stern's power likely never even entered the discussion.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: New agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    .....why would they ASK for something that's already there?

    And Stern does NOT have an iron fist. There is an arbitration option now. Of course, the Pacers had arbitration last year anyway, so it's not a big deal.

    And if you think the union demanded stern give up absolute power on handing out suspensions, you're kidding yourself. They were after the escrow, a higher salary cap, and the luxury tax. Stern's power likely never even entered the discussion.
    There is arbitration NOW. At the time of the brawl, the NBA was trying to say the suspended players and teams had no right to arbitration, and threatened legal action if the arbitrator ruled against them. Stern wisely chose not to force the issue, and now has given guaranteed arbitration for long suspensions to the union. What part of this are you not getting? If you think that this concession has nothing to do with the brawl and the fallout from it, you are the one that's kidding yourself.

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    Default Re: New agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil
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    There is arbitration NOW. At the time of the brawl, the NBA was trying to say the suspended players and teams had no right to arbitration, and threatened legal action if the arbitrator ruled against them. Stern wisely chose not to force the issue, and now has given guaranteed arbitration for long suspensions to the union. What part of this are you not getting? If you think that this concession has nothing to do with the brawl and the fallout from it, you are the one that's kidding yourself.

    wait, now you're saying that there ARE concessions? I'm confused. Weren't you just fuming over the fact that Stern got to keep his "iron fist?"

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: New agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    wait, now you're saying that there ARE concessions? I'm confused. Weren't you just fuming over the fact that Stern got to keep his "iron fist?"
    For the most part he did. This really is a small concession. It would make a difference though if Stern tried to do the same thing again. In almost every other way, it's still business as usual in Stern's office.

    [edit] and I wasn't really fuming about anything. [/edit]

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    Default Re: New agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil
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    For the most part he did. This really is a small concession. It would make a difference though if Stern tried to do the same thing again. In almost every other way, it's still business as usual in Stern's office.

    [edit] and I wasn't really fuming about anything. [/edit]
    If the guaranteed arbitrator compromise is true, then I think that it is a rather huge concession. The owners agreed to allow an arbitrator to overrule Stern's ruling. Arbitrators are 100% independent of both the NBA and the Players Association. Stern DOES NOT have absolulte power in any way. The arbitrator can tell Stern to shove it or he/she can uphold his ruling.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: New agreement

    I think I'd prefer the automatic arbitration rule to kick in a little deeper... say 15 or even 20 games. I think that would actually discourage knee jerk reactions and major length suspensions from Stern unless he really really really felt it was warranted.

    So A: it would force him to think about it longer and B: it would give him a target to where his ruling would have less chance to be challenged (IOW, force him to be a little more certain of his position).

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  13. #13

    Default Re: New agreement

    This is the new rule relating to an arbitrator, as described by Marc Stein:

    Stern likewise wound up sacrificing some of his absolute power in doling out punishments for on-court misconduct. Suspensions longer than 12 games, as meted out to Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson in November after The Malice of Auburn Hills, can be challenged to a neutral arbitrator starting next season.

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    Default Re: New agreement

    The Simons may not be as friendly with Stern anymore, but I'll bet they can't name anybody better for that job.

    Stern isn't perfect, and from what I hear Jesus and Bono each have bigger things to worry about than the NBA.

    But Stern and Tagliabue are still neck-and-neck for the best commissioners, so overall I think the union and owners still want him in charge, just with a better-defined check and balance system for "the biggies".
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    Default Re: New agreement

    I wouldn't mind if there was a rule that said any situation where Stern feels the player deserves more than 10 games off, he has to wait until after those first 10 games have been served before deciding how long it will ultimately be. That way there won't be as many knee-jerk reactions that cost a season.

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