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Thread: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

  1. #26
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00
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    Intresting Jermaine O'Neal was actually 17 when drafted. So if the rule had been in effect back then he would have had to wait 2 years before entering the league.

    And I think we can all agree he didn't belong in the NBA till he hit 21.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    So, Stern gets to retain ALL of his power? Joy.

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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    i think it probably has more to do with the fact that only one white high schooler has ever been taken....all the others are blacks....though the league is more black than white, i think the last number i saw was high seventy percentile or something.....so this rule would seem to affect and inordinate amount of blacks....

    this is typically the reason given when saying it is racially imbalanced....i think its more about it having a racial impact than it being racially motivated....there is a difference...
    Then in that case, I think what the people crying out about it need to realize is, instead of drafting 7-9 black 18 year olds to every 1 white 18 year old, this just means now 7-9 black 19 year olds will be drafted to every 1 white 19 year old.

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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade
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    So, Stern gets to retain ALL of his power? Joy.
    Why would you think that he wouldn't? %98 of NBA teams are thrilled with the guy.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  5. #30
    foretaz
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    it kinda comes back to the real reason all this started way back in the 70s....

    they were called hardship cases...

    if u have a young black athlete that cant qualify scholastically and therefore is ineligible, and his background, lets say is ghetto project oriented....then it becomes a bit of a struggle to tell that young man he cant play basketball in the nba....

    now granted....for most all athletes....they still have options....they can go play overseas or a cba type league....

    however this is where the owners are their own worst enemy...and really are to blame....if this kid is an amazing talent....like a kg or lebron....then they want him.....and its tough to say we just take him and not allow all the others....and by allowing all the others they have now created a whole can of worms that they have trouble swallowing....they end up paying alot of money to a bunch of kids that they otherwise wouldnt....

    thats why there was even talk of making the age limit only pertaining to the draft outside the lottery....though it seems it might have gotten nixed in this latest proposal....which is probably for the better....

  6. #31
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Didn't we have this conversation already? Anybody remember the title of that thread? (LOL, didn't I just ask these questions in another thread?)

  7. #32
    foretaz
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Then in that case, I think what the people crying out about it need to realize is, instead of drafting 7-9 black 18 year olds to every 1 white 18 year old, this just means now 7-9 black 19 year olds will be drafted to every 1 white 19 year old.
    i think u might be missing the point...

    if the nba or any other organization implements a rule that affects any race disproportionately, then it can be accused of being racially insensitive....

    the age limit certainly appears to have no racial motivation whatsoever....its strictly business....but the problem is it affects a disproportionate amount of black kids....

    as i said i believe the nba is made up of 78% blacks....correct me if im wrong but thats the figure that sticks out to me....

    yet i believe only one white high schooler has ever declared for the draft....

    if ur league is 78% black but ur new rule affects 99% of the blacks....u have a bit of a problem....and once again...it has nothing to do with motivation and everything to do with end result....in the day and age we live in you have to be aware of how things are perceived racially....

    and while most will admit the age limit is based strictly on business, most would have a hard time arguing that its consequences are not racially imbalanced....

    in this case its not why ur doing something.....but how it turns out that is at issue

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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    explain to me how its racially imbalanced?

    It is saving the jobs of as many black people as its preventing.

    Not to mention, you fail to mention all the euros that have been pushed back another year.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  9. #34
    Tim
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    No real changes
    Exactly.

    All this means is the highschool kids will do an extra year in highschool.
    Or worse, cause more college freshman to come out after one year.

  10. #35
    foretaz
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    explain to me how its racially imbalanced?

    It is saving the jobs of as many black people as its preventing.

    Not to mention, you fail to mention all the euros that have been pushed back another year.
    ok...ill see if i can explain...because its pretty obvious....

    first of all very few 18 year old euros come across....most are older...plus this is an american organization...bound by american law and american standards...

    now...follow closely....

    78 percent of the league is black...99.9 percent of the high schoolers entering the draft are black....you affect a disproportionate amount of blacks by instituting this rule...

    is it the leagues fault that 99.9% of the highschoolers making the jump are black? no....but it must realize that when they address the issue with a rule change it will have an impact to that group...and that group is basically all black....

    when u throw in the fact that many of these decisions might be hardship cases and thats why they are entering, then you again open urself up for more scrutiny....

    as i said....there are two very distinct issues here....racially motivated-which its quite obviously not....and racially imbalanced result-which it will be-like it or not....

    i think all this will do will turn into a huge court battle....one that , sooner or later. the leagues will have a real problem with....

    the nfl skated last year with the clarett situation-the end result being that because the players association agreed to it that it was ok....sooner or later, someone is gonna expose that argument for the sham that it really is.....you cant have the only real reason to not let a younger guy come into the league be-the older guys want to hang onto their jobs a year longer and agreed with the league that the younger guys cant play...thats hogwash...

    the nfl has a better case because of the physicality issues....plus they dont have the high school success stories that the nba does....

    look, i agree most should go to school....but not all can nor do they want to....its hard to argue in america that they shouldnt have the opportunity to try and earn a living if someone will pay them....just because the owners cant help themselves, shouldnt mean teenagers should be penalized....this rule is generated out of money and money alone, no matter how the league tries to spin it....and the irony is they are the ones that created the problem....noone forced them or forces them to take these kids in the first round....they willingly do it...the kids shouldnt have to pay for the owners poor judgement....if a business owner will pay you....so be it....shouldnt be rules to keep them from the free enterprise system...

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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    ok...ill see if i can explain...because its pretty obvious....

    78 percent of the league is white...99.9 percent of the high schoolers entering the draft are black....you affect a disproportionate amount of blacks by instituting this rule...

    Whoa whoa whoa. Since when is 78 percent of the league white?

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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Huxtable
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    Whoa whoa whoa. Since when is 78 percent of the league white?
    Yeah. At that point, I stopped trying to figure it out.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  13. #38
    foretaz
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Huxtable
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    Whoa whoa whoa. Since when is 78 percent of the league white?
    sorry...as i had said in other posts....78 percent black...not white

  14. #39
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Kids play basketball to get out of the hood and be successful. The age limit only punishes them. They want to get an NBA contract so they don't have to live like that anymore. The age limit in my opinion is absolutely ridiculous.

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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerSoul
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    Kids play basketball to get out of the hood and be successful. The age limit only punishes them. They want to get an NBA contract so they don't have to live like that anymore. The age limit in my opinion is absolutely ridiculous.
    If they are 18 then they could move some place a bit nicer and get a job to help support their family until they can get drafted, or they could try hard in school and try to get a good scholarship to play ball. Seriously, I think too many kids (I feel weird saying kids since they're older than me ) before now would just stop caring in high school knowing that their basketball skills will get them drafted at 18.

    Also, adding to the thing about going to college. To me the injury argument isn't a very good one because if they got injured they could then stay in college to LEARN, get a good job and then help out their familes back in the hood.

    Again, like someone else mentioned, none of this would really be a problem if the NBDL is what it should be.

  16. #41
    foretaz
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Huxtable
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    If they are 18 then they could move some place a bit nicer and get a job to help support their family until they can get drafted, or they could try hard in school and try to get a good scholarship to play ball. Seriously, I think too many kids (I feel weird saying kids since they're older than me ) before now would just stop caring in high school knowing that their basketball skills will get them drafted at 18.

    Also, adding to the thing about going to college. To me the injury argument isn't a very good one because if they got injured they could then stay in college to LEARN, get a good job and then help out their familes back in the hood.

    Again, like someone else mentioned, none of this would really be a problem if the NBDL is what it should be.
    sounds good in theory....not sure about the real world

    david harrison was the last pick in the draft...meaning he got the last guaranteed contract....he is guaranteed a minimum of 2 million dollars over the next 3 years....if he flops or whatever....how will he be as far as set for the rest of his life?

    you know how long it would take some kid out of the ghetto to earn 2 million dollars? nevermind the feasibility of such things....

    real world just doesnt work that way....if a kid has the ability to make 2million dollars then so be it....im not sure how fair it is to tell him he is not allowed

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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    The age limit is actually going to affect the euro's MUCH more than the high-schoolers.

    All the graduates can go to college for a year, prove their worth in a prime-time setting, and make their value even better.

    Euro's have to find a team to pay for them and hope they get PLAYING TIME at such a young age.

    The whole affecting blacks more is BS.

    And the NBA is a company, they can incorporate whatever rules they want within a small reason. It's the same as the Augusta National preventing women from golfing on their course, the owner owns that property, and technically can do that.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  18. #43
    foretaz
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanInAZ
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    The age limit is actually going to affect the euro's MUCH more than the high-schoolers.

    All the graduates can go to college for a year, prove their worth in a prime-time setting, and make their value even better.

    Euro's have to find a team to pay for them and hope they get PLAYING TIME at such a young age.

    The whole affecting blacks more is BS.

    And the NBA is a company, they can incorporate whatever rules they want within a small reason. It's the same as the Augusta National preventing women from golfing on their course, the owner owns that property, and technically can do that.
    affecting black more is BS??? how do u figure??

    and actually its nothing like augusta national....

    augusta national is a totally private club whose only source of revenue comes from club members....

    the nba is far different....first of all almost every team in the league plays in arenas that are subsidized to varying degrees by the community and local and state governments....the pacers pay 1 dollar for conseco and get many revenues from it that have nothing to do with the pacers....

    so its hardly the same....and as such they have to adhere to principles that are generally used within the public eye....and i assure u that any company that implements a hiring policy that basically affect all blacks or any other race will have some issues to deal with....this is not a private club like augusta national....you cant do as u please, contrary to what u might think.....why do u think the NFL was in court???? no suits were ever filed by people who had problems with augusta national....people tried to organize and show their lack of approval...but it still was a private club and as such, can do as they please and cant be sued for doing so....if they want to discriminate that is the memberships right....

    the nba doesnt have that right....if u think so...im sorry, but ur badly mistaken...

    now while i dont believe the nba is racially imbalanced...especially not towards blacks-how could it be when its players are nearly 80 percent black....the age limit will affect a much higher percentage of blacks than the current percentage breakdown with the league....

    therefore it does have racial impacts that will have to be dealt with...

    and just for the record....i am white....not that it matters

  19. #44
    3ptmiller
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!


  20. #45
    PacerSoul
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Huxtable
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    If they are 18 then they could move some place a bit nicer and get a job to help support their family until they can get drafted, or they could try hard in school and try to get a good scholarship to play ball. Seriously, I think too many kids (I feel weird saying kids since they're older than me ) before now would just stop caring in high school knowing that their basketball skills will get them drafted at 18.

    Also, adding to the thing about going to college. To me the injury argument isn't a very good one because if they got injured they could then stay in college to LEARN, get a good job and then help out their familes back in the hood.

    Again, like someone else mentioned, none of this would really be a problem if the NBDL is what it should be.
    Give me a break my friend, what 18 year old black basketball star is going to go get a 12 hour a day job? His job is to make the NBA and to make millions to support his family.

    The injury argument is very valid because a lot of these kids do not have educational skills and they would not excel in other jobs, all they have known their whole life is basketball. You consider a good job making 60 grand a year, they have worked their whole lives to make millions and imposing an age limit makes blacks from the hood suffer, hence why ballers like Jermaine O'Neal call things how they are.

  21. #46
    PacerSoul
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanInAZ
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    The age limit is actually going to affect the euro's MUCH more than the high-schoolers.

    All the graduates can go to college for a year, prove their worth in a prime-time setting, and make their value even better.

    Euro's have to find a team to pay for them and hope they get PLAYING TIME at such a young age.

    The whole affecting blacks more is BS.

    And the NBA is a company, they can incorporate whatever rules they want within a small reason. It's the same as the Augusta National preventing women from golfing on their course, the owner owns that property, and technically can do that.
    Europeans don't come to the NBA at the age of 17. It does not hurt the European players on bit, it directly hurts the young black ballers and imagine if Labron, Jermaine, Garnett, Kobe, McGrady, or any of them got hurt in college. They wouldn't have been able to get to their potential so quickly and an injury might have gotten them a lesser contract. It's all about the dollars and the age limit is not fair to those trying to come out the hood.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    For the record I think the age limit is dumb. If a kid can play he can play.

    All this rule does is protect the owners from themselves (or at least from their GM's) by helping to weed out the players that will be exposed as frauds by either their lack of ability or their health issues (Bender) during that extra year. But drafting a bust can happen whether the kid is 17 or 24, so I fail to see the reasoning.

    As for it being racial, I don't really know. Again, if the kid can play he will play. It's just that now it will cost him a year of his life and around $1-4 million. So that sucks no matter what color you are. And for those of you that worry about the poor kid that doesn't make good enough grades to get into a D-1 college, there are plenty of lower level colleges that don't have the same requirements that would love to have him for even one year. Plus, the GM's will still know where to find them.

  23. #48
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    It's a business requiring special skill and knowledge. I've said it 10 dozen times, many industries have age and education restrictions...what makes the NBA any different? So they require them to wait another year...big deal, in my industry you can't even get an interview without a 4 year college degree. That means you're going to be AT LEAST 21 and degreed to get a job. Now how many young people are being held back by being denied the ability to get employment in my field until they are 21?

    Many industries have graduated payscales. THe more education (read the older/more experieinced) you have/are, the more $$$ you can make.

    Race has nothing to do with this, that whole arguement is bogus. The dispropotionality of it sounds like a statistician talking. You make of it what you want to.
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  24. #49
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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Drop the race discussion. J.O has so why can't we. J.O backed away from his initial comments rather quickly. Non-issue. He doesn't like the age restriction and neither do I , but I really don't care all that much abut that issue.

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    Default Re: The NBA's new bargaining agreement with the union. No more 18 year olds!

    Life isn't fair. Get used to it.

    If a kid cannot wait one or two extra years, then he doesn't deserve to be drafted.

    Patience is a virtue.

    Anyways, it is NOT racial discrimination, so we can drop the race card. It's called experience discrimination which is legal. The NBA is not the government, it is a private entity.

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