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Thread: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Can we officially say it was a huge mistake to trade Paul 4 days earlier now? What would it have hurt to let Boston have the meeting with Paul that they requested? I think with Hayward under contract they would have been willing to give up at least one of their top picks for next year.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Can we officially say it was a huge mistake to trade Paul 4 days earlier now? What would it have hurt to let Boston have the meeting with Paul that they requested? I think with Hayward under contract they would have been willing to give up at least one of their top picks for next year.
    What gives you any idea that this would have happened?

    They were able to sign him without losing any assets.
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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    What gives you any idea that this would have happened?

    They were able to sign him without losing any assets.
    Yes they signed Hayward without giving up anything. I'm referring to trading for Paul. We had nothing to lose in letting Boston have the meeting with Paul that they requested and really nothing to lose by waiting 4 days. Once they had Hayward under contract then I think they'd see Paul as the missing piece to a super team.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    And then we could hope that the pick turns out better than Oladipo, which is far from a sure thing.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    End result is that the Pacers got more out of PG than Utah did out of Hayward. I guess it depends on how close it really was for Utah, but this has the feel of a long-held desire, like the PG to the Lakers thing.

    I feel bad for Utah. The difference between the Jazz and the Pacers I think are that the Jazz appear to be peaking now, only to be suddenly decapitated, while the Pacers peaked earlier and are clearly on the decline by the time PG left.

    FWIW there's still no evidence that Ainge is willing to part with any of his precious "assets", so no I don't feel bad that KP didn't wait around for the Celtics to make an actual offer. It would have been Bradley and Crowder and low picks anyway, which isn't bad but I could see why KP preferred to go for higher upside. It clearly came down to the OKC and Denver packages, and time will tell whether KP chose correctly.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I know everyone wants to say the Jazz did it right but I disagree. I know ISO Joe was big in the playoffs but they have 20 mill tied up in Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw. It's not as bad as our Monta and Al situation but that money is better served with a difference maker not half going to a guy scoring 4 points a game.

    And the Jazz have been a playmaker or point guard away for like 3 years. Look at Hayward's starting point guards for the past 4 years...

    Jamaal Tinsley, Trey Burk, John Lucas III, Dante Exum, Shelvin Mack, and then finally they trade for a capable starter yet he's old and injury prone in George Hill who only started 49 games.

    So they finally fielded a playoff team, but that doesn't change that they failed Hayward the majority of the time until a last ditch effort in Hayward's contract year.

    Meanwhile the Pacers have made sure Paul has made the playoffs every year he's been healthy in this league, and even gave him two years as a legit contender. That's twice out of six seasons! One third of Paul's time in the NBA he was on one of the best teams in the league!

    It's just funny to me. The narrative is Utah did it right and the Pacers didn't do enough, but is that really true?
    It is absolutely about trending. We are trending down and they had been trending up. However as it stands we both are about the same although to be honest I think we now have more assets to improve than they do and we are not stuck in the gauntlet of the W.C.


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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Can we officially say it was a huge mistake to trade Paul 4 days earlier now? What would it have hurt to let Boston have the meeting with Paul that they requested? I think with Hayward under contract they would have been willing to give up at least one of their top picks for next year.
    Not for me. I'm one of those oddballs that wanted him out of the East and I really had no desire to help make another superteam that would pummel us for the next 4-7 years. Boston still will be great without Paul and if LeBron bolts they become the defacto best team in the East. But they don't scare me like any team that has LeBron on it.


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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I know everyone wants to say the Jazz did it right but I disagree. I know ISO Joe was big in the playoffs but they have 20 mill tied up in Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw. It's not as bad as our Monta and Al situation but that money is better served with a difference maker not half going to a guy scoring 4 points a game.

    And the Jazz have been a playmaker or point guard away for like 3 years. Look at Hayward's starting point guards for the past 4 years...

    Jamaal Tinsley, Trey Burk, John Lucas III, Dante Exum, Shelvin Mack, and then finally they trade for a capable starter yet he's old and injury prone in George Hill who only started 49 games.

    So they finally fielded a playoff team, but that doesn't change that they failed Hayward the majority of the time until a last ditch effort in Hayward's contract year.

    Meanwhile the Pacers have made sure Paul has made the playoffs every year he's been healthy in this league, and even gave him two years as a legit contender. That's twice out of six seasons! One third of Paul's time in the NBA he was on one of the best teams in the league!

    It's just funny to me. The narrative is Utah did it right and the Pacers didn't do enough, but is that really true?
    I watched Utah's final playoff game and Hayward sucked.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    It is absolutely about trending. We are trending down and they had been trending up. However as it stands we both are about the same although to be honest I think we now have more assets to improve than they do and we are not stuck in the gauntlet of the W.C.
    The season before Hayward's contract year the Jazz won 40 games, we won 41 the season before PG's contract year. So we didn't get the chance to add the last ditch effort to our already better resume to potentially say we're trending up.

    But the point is, they wasted too many of Hayward's season with bad moves. They renounced Milsap so they could absorb terrible Andris Beadrins and let Al Jefferson walk after winning the second most games of Hayward's career, 43 wins. The following year they won 25 games and Tinsley was the starting point guard.

    And does Myles Turner not count for anything trending up? He's no Gobert yet, but it's not like the Jazz roster is without problems. They spent several years to build a team that isn't a contender old Joe Johnson and Diaw just bumped them to a middle of the pack playoff team. Rubio and GHill is wash at best. Another injury prone point guard.

    To say they are trending up, you thing the Jazz were winning more than 50 this year? Going further in the playoffs to WCF? Probably not. And again, this is after only giving Hayward one playoff run. I don't blame him for leaving. The Jazz only got serious when he could leave and low balled him on his first extension.

    The Pacers on the other hand at least tried to make sure Paul had guys to win with and made him the guy from day one. From a building standpoint and money offers.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    If I were the Celts, not sure I'd move these assets. Here we are, successful, attractive FA destination and who knows how good we can be with Hayward on board. If Brown and Tatum end up being a couple of Danny Grangers, and their other 2 lottery picks end up being contributors....that's a potentially extremely talented team that they could keep together for several years.
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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Not for me. I'm one of those oddballs that wanted him out of the East and I really had no desire to help make another superteam that would pummel us for the next 4-7 years. Boston still will be great without Paul and if LeBron bolts they become the defacto best team in the East. But they don't scare me like any team that has LeBron on it.
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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    I like Gordon and wish him nothing but future failure with his new team.
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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I know everyone wants to say the Jazz did it right but I disagree. I know ISO Joe was big in the playoffs but they have 20 mill tied up in Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw. It's not as bad as our Monta and Al situation but that money is better served with a difference maker not half going to a guy scoring 4 points a game.

    And the Jazz have been a playmaker or point guard away for like 3 years. Look at Hayward's starting point guards for the past 4 years...

    Jamaal Tinsley, Trey Burk, John Lucas III, Dante Exum, Shelvin Mack, and then finally they trade for a capable starter yet he's old and injury prone in George Hill who only started 49 games.

    So they finally fielded a playoff team, but that doesn't change that they failed Hayward the majority of the time until a last ditch effort in Hayward's contract year.

    Meanwhile the Pacers have made sure Paul has made the playoffs every year he's been healthy in this league, and even gave him two years as a legit contender. That's twice out of six seasons! One third of Paul's time in the NBA he was on one of the best teams in the league!

    It's just funny to me. The narrative is Utah did it right and the Pacers didn't do enough, but is that really true?
    Well said, it's all about picking the right pieces to make the right team to compete at the highest levels. But, the majority of the time when the big market team gets Luke warm and has that one All NBA, FA's begin to flock to that team, which is unfair. And now more then ever or atleast what I recall, players are taking huge paycuts to build their own super team. It's getting out of control. Where does it end, the Utah and Indiana fans and cities pay for those players salaries. But those players have little loyalty to them. While I respect Haywards words, at the end of the day he's gone and those words do nothing for the team, organization or fans. They lose the player they groomed that is entering his prime to a more powerful and capable market. A respected market and culture that the small market can't offer.
    Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Boston has the assets to see how the team does with insurance that they can send picks and prospects for another veteran. Horford is due for an injury.

    I woildnt be be surprised if Drummond plays for the Celts come playoff time.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    This brings me to a question. Would you rather have a player do it like Hayward or PG. What is better for the franchise that is losing the player. What is better for the fans.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Unless they pass on giving IT a max contract the Celtics are probably going to need to attach one of those high picks to Horford to get someone to take on that God awful contract sometime in the next couple years.......

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This brings me to a question. Would you rather have a player do it like Hayward or PG. What is better for the franchise that is losing the player. What is better for the fans.
    I think it's all about the player. How they want to exit. I think the fan cares about the team and how the team is affected. Does the team get proper value or just bent over. Players make teams, but the fan makes the team.
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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This brings me to a question. Would you rather have a player do it like Hayward or PG. What is better for the franchise that is losing the player. What is better for the fans.
    The answer depends upon your player. I know many aren't happy with what we got from OKC but perhaps one of them will blossom to all-star level. Unfortunately for Utah, they got nothing in return other than the cap space. Their problem is GH made his decision too late in the process for Utah to use that cap space in free-agency and now must wait for teams to start shedding rosters to see who they can pick up.
    In that light, I guess I have to admit PG did right by us.
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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
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    Unless they pass on giving IT a max contract the Celtics are probably going to need to attach one of those high picks to Horford to get someone to take on that God awful contract sometime in the next couple years.......
    That would probably be good sign for Boston - that they had brought another max player to the fold. Otherwise they'll just roll with 3 max contracts in Thomas/Hayward/Horford; by the time Brown/Tatum/Picks need extensions, Horford will be expiring.

    But this is one of the reasons I never bought the "renegotiation & extension" theory and that Ainge would up his offer for a Paul George willing to be extended. It'd lock up Boston in repeaters tax hell while giving away their cheap players/rookie contracts and future assets.

    It'd still have been a rental and therefore it's unlikely Ainge's offer would vary significantly.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    I know it would be unpopular amongst the players, but the NBA needs to use franchise tags. Players are like hot potatoes, and there is a place for that, but it shouldn't be with the face of the franchise player. I'm really getting annoyed by this me me me by the players. If the fans stop going to the games, the players would be screwed.
    Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This brings me to a question. Would you rather have a player do it like Hayward or PG. What is better for the franchise that is losing the player. What is better for the fans.
    It's complicated. I would prefer the Hayward way in that Utah actually had a chance to keep Hayward. Had they made one more move correctly such as draft Booker instead of Trey Lyles or moving Favors for an impact player or spent 20 mill on another star instead of ISO Joe and Diaw perhaps Hayward stays.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    I know it would be unpopular amongst the players, but the NBA needs to use franchise tags. Players are like hot potatoes, and there is a place for that, but it shouldn't be with the face of the franchise player. I'm really getting annoyed by this me me me by the players. If the fans stop going to the games, the players would be screwed.
    If fans stop watching games the players would be screwed. The NBA really doesn't give a **** whether joe fan attends games or not. Even the main source of ticket revenue is generally luxury boxes, usually reserved for corporations. This idea of families of 4 coming to games keeping teams afloat is silly. This isn't the 1980's.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by kent beckley View Post
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    And then we could hope that the pick turns out better than Oladipo, which is far from a sure thing.
    That's sitting the bar pretty low. I'd take my chance on a high draft pick or Oladipo every time.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This brings me to a question. Would you rather have a player do it like Hayward or PG. What is better for the franchise that is losing the player. What is better for the fans.
    Obviously we got a better return than Utah did, but PG was definitely not returning here. Maybe Hayward was undecided if he wanted to stay in Utah or go somewhere else. In that case, it may be worth the risk of keeping them their final year.


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    Default Re: Gordon Hayward signs with the Celtics

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Only to have them develop on your dime to see them go to the coast again? Sounds like a great way to run a developmental league to me.
    It is time for a lock out at the end of the next agreement. Teams need one or two Franchise Tags to be able to keep at least their stars.
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