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Thread: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta - UPDATE - Monta waived

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    They already re-signed Livingston to a decent contract to do that though.
    Livingston was kind of bad this year they missed other players, there is a reason why they are trying to convince Swaggy P.
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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

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    Default Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    For those of you who are cap experts how does a buyout work vs the salary cap? In other words are we still on the hook for the full amount of the original contract or when we buy out does it go off of the books then? Not that it matters but if we could shed his salary then it would go a little in making DC more palatable. (not really but I'm trying to find a bright side to that)
    It would have to go off the books, otherwise what benefit would this have for the team.

    Or at least I hope.


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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by CooperManning View Post
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    Incorrect, sadly. Full contract will still count against our cap.


    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q67
    Follow that link and read 66 too. It says:

    If the player clears waivers, the player's guaranteed salary will be reduced or eliminated
    So if the Pacers and Monta agree to a $5M buyout for example, then $5M would count against the cap. They're agreeing to a new guaranteed salary amount.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    BS. Over 11M next season and a player option for the season after for nearly 12M. He's not going to get that in another contract, so he's going to make us pay through the nose. No way does Herb handover 16-18M for a player that won't even be in uniform.
    Since a buyout is technically a "waive" wouldn't that render his player option year invalid anyway?

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    For those of you who are cap experts how does a buyout work vs the salary cap? In other words are we still on the hook for the full amount of the original contract or when we buy out does it go off of the books then? Not that it matters but if we could shed his salary then it would go a little in making DC more palatable. (not really but I'm trying to find a bright side to that)
    I think the cost of the buyout is what counts against the salary cap. I'm not super confident about that though.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
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    It would have to go off the books, otherwise what benefit would this have for the team.

    Or at least I hope.


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    It stays on the books. The benefit is that the guaranteed amount drops. So instead of having $11,277,000 against the cap this year, it might only be $5M (or whatever they agree to).

    And remember that his final year isn't really guaranteed because he can be Stuckeyed.
    Last edited by Strummer; 07-03-2017 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Stuckeyed was misspelled

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    And remember that his final year isn't really guaranteed because he can be Stuckyed.
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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    It stays on the books. The benefit is that the guaranteed amount drops. So instead of having $11,277,000 against the cap this year, it might only be $5M (or whatever they agree to).

    And remember that his final year isn't really guaranteed because he can be Stuckeyed.
    Looks like stuck-eyed. One of his eyes has been superglued.

    There is a possible problem with the Stuckey Provision and a guy just being waived. It depends on the exact legalese way the CBA is written. Normally, all player options must be paid off in order to stretch or waive a player. The fact that the Pacers found a loophole to give Monta and the team both a player option and a team option to a contract could muddy the water. A buyout might save the hassle of a $10M complaint by the NBAPA.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    For those of you who are cap experts how does a buyout work vs the salary cap? In other words are we still on the hook for the full amount of the original contract or when we buy out does it go off of the books then? Not that it matters but if we could shed his salary then it would go a little in making DC more palatable. (not really but I'm trying to find a bright side to that)
    I think that the buyout amount is what counts towards there salary cap. So if there buyout amount is $9 mil, that is how much will be applied towards the salary cap.
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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    It stays on the books. The benefit is that the guaranteed amount drops. So instead of having $11,277,000 against the cap this year, it might only be $5M (or whatever they agree to).

    And remember that his final year isn't really guaranteed because he can be Stuckeyed.
    I'm trying to understand the logistics of how being "Stuckey-ed" works.

    Let's say that the Pacers ( or any Team ) keeps him on the roster for the majority of the season and decides to waive/drop/whatever him the day before his 2017-2018 salary becomes guaranteed. How much of his Salary counts towards the 2017-2018 Salary Cap?

    The reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if there is some benefit to keep him and use him as a trading asset.

    I would think that there would be a good percentage of his Salary that would have to be paid considering that he played for "X" number of days. For example, he played 75% of the games....so he would be paid 75% of his guaranteed Salary and would count towards the Salary Cap?

    I would hope that if you play or keep him up until the day before his contract becomes guaranteed.....and then waive/cut/whatever him....that he won't be paid at all that season despite the # of games that he played.
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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I'm trying to understand the logistics of how being "Stuckey-ed" works.

    Let's say that the Pacers ( or any Team ) keeps him on the roster for the majority of the season and decides to waive/drop/whatever him the day before his 2017-2018 salary becomes guaranteed. How much of his Salary counts towards the 2017-2018 Salary Cap?

    The reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if there is some benefit to keep him and use him as a trading asset.

    I would think that there would be a good percentage of his Salary that would have to be paid considering that he played for "X" number of days. For example, he played 75% of the games....so he would be paid 75% of his guaranteed Salary and would count towards the Salary Cap?

    I would hope that if you play or keep him up until the day before his contract becomes guaranteed.....and then waive/cut/whatever him....that he won't be paid at all that season despite the # of games that he played.
    Stuckeying only takes away Monta's player option for the 2018-19 season. He loses that player option when we waive him before the end of the 2017-18 season. His 2017-18 salary is still fully guaranteed. The only way to reduce his salary cap hit for the 2017-18 season is if he accepts a buyout which reduces the guaranteed salary amount. Part of the buyout procedure is waiving him which would trigger the Stuckey clause.

    And I don't know if his contract can be both Stuckeyed and stretched at the same time.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    Stuckeying only takes away Monta's player option for the 2018-19 season. He loses that player option when we waive him before the end of the 2017-18 season. His 2017-18 salary is still fully guaranteed. The only way to reduce his salary cap hit for the 2017-18 season is if he accepts a buyout which reduces the guaranteed salary amount. Part of the buyout procedure is waiving him which would trigger the Stuckey clause.

    And I don't know if his contract can be both Stuckeyed and stretched at the same time.
    This seems to be the pertinent question, but considering the player gets paid the same either way, I don't see why it would matter whether the team stretched the salary or not.

    As far as I know (correct me if i'm wrong) stretching doesn't affect the timeline the player gets paid on, they get paid the same way. It only stretches out the cap hit, it's purely a benefit to the team so I don't see why it wouldn't apply in this case.
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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    I think that with the signing of DC.....he would eat up most of the available Salary Cap space that we CURRENTLY have ( while not taking into consideration Leaf/Brooks/CJ Salary Cap hold ).

    I would assume that Brooks cap hold will be released.....which should leave us with about $3.5 mil in Salary Cap space to spend. I would hope that we let CJ go as well....which would then open up $11.5 mil in Salary Cap space to spend on a Free Agent. Now...if CJ can be had for $8+ mil a year.....I would be fine with him as our Backup SF.....but I do not want to overpay him to be our Starting SF.
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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I think that with the signing of DC.....he would eat up most of the available Salary Cap space that we CURRENTLY have ( while not taking into consideration Leaf/Brooks/CJ Salary Cap hold ).

    I would assume that Brooks cap hold will be released.....which should leave us with about $3.5 mil in Salary Cap space to spend. I would hope that we let CJ go as well....which would then open up $11.5 mil in Salary Cap space to spend on a Free Agent. Now...if CJ can be had for $8+ mil a year.....I would be fine with him as our Backup SF.....but I do not want to overpay him to be our Starting SF.
    After the DC signing, we have $13 million in cap space left--as much as $17 million if we shed some of our non-guaranteed guys.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    And I don't know if his contract can be both Stuckeyed and stretched at the same time.
    Buyout amounts can be stretched so I think yes. But in our situation now, I'd prefer to take all of the cap hit this year.

    For people who think Monta will get all his salary back - this is not generally how buyouts work. Monta is giving up some money to get released early, in order to catch on with another team. If the Pacers have to pay him the full amount, then they might as well make him play.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Haven't most of our previous buyouts been around 70%? So $7 million or so for Ellis. Then if he signs elsewhere I'm pretty sure we get an offset to lower that hit even more.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by DrFife View Post
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    New verb! Love it!

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    Remember we already have Tinsley'd as a verb

    It's a lot like Stuckey'd but we still have to pay the guy

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    Haven't most of our previous buyouts been around 70%? So $7 million or so for Ellis. Then if he signs elsewhere I'm pretty sure we get an offset to lower that hit even more.
    I don't know about us specifically but yeah, buyouts in general are in the 70-80% range. There is an offset whenever he signs his next deal but I'm thinking it's to the actual cash payout, the cap hit remains the same regardless. May be vice versa, I can't remember.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I don't know about us specifically but yeah, buyouts in general are in the 70-80% range. There is an offset whenever he signs his next deal but I'm thinking it's to the actual cash payout, the cap hit remains the same regardless. May be vice versa, I can't remember.
    Not 100% sure but I thought it was the cap hit that went down and not the actual payment to the player. Thought I remembered at one point 3 teams were paying Gilbert Arenas to not play basketball.

  29. #46
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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    Not 100% sure but I thought it was the cap hit that went down and not the actual payment to the player. Thought I remembered at one point 3 teams were paying Gilbert Arenas to not play basketball.
    The other way around. From a business side it is better, from a basketball side (chance to get other players) not. I agree with the premise that we shouldn't stretch the amount. Take the hit this season, load up for the future and use this season to get rid of everything we don't want anymore.
    Yay, we don't know what we're doing as a franchise! thanks PG!

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    !
    Last edited by Ozwalt72; 07-04-2017 at 07:36 AM. Reason: lookit me ima dummy
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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Buyout amounts can be stretched so I think yes. But in our situation now, I'd prefer to take all of the cap hit this year.

    For people who think Monta will get all his salary back - this is not generally how buyouts work. Monta is giving up some money to get released early, in order to catch on with another team. If the Pacers have to pay him the full amount, then they might as well make him play.
    Yes. No stretch in current situation. Only useful if PG stayed.

    Assuming the buyout nullifies future cap impacts of Monta's player option for 2017-18 then all for it. No need to risk Monta hitting a hot stretch and winning a couple games this year.

    Unless there is some unexpected sweet deal out there for young talent on a rookie deal honestly hope the only other acquisition this summer is for a back-up SF on a one year deal that gets the team to the floor. Absolutely no need for this team win next year and sacrifice a very real opportunity to be good and trending up in 2019-20 when LeBron will be 35 with a lot of miles on the chassis.
    Last edited by Downtown Bang!; 07-04-2017 at 08:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    Would be one of the best moves of the offseason, one in which hasn't had many bright spots.

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    Default Re: Pacers Discussing Buyout With Monta

    This is a year too late.


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