Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: What is "max-worthy"

  1. #1
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,728

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default What is "max-worthy"

    So, what does it take to be a max contract player?

    2 years after the signing, is JO worth a max deal?

    Clearly Tim Duncan is. When Duncan signed his deal in 2003, he had lead the Spurs to their second title. When JO signed his max deal in 2003 for slightly more(in the league a year longer), he had never taken the Pacers out of the first round.

    When a player gets the max, I take it that they themselves are ready to lead the francchise. They are indirectly signing a commitment to be the face of the franchise, and to do everything they can to lead them to the promise land. I believe that court production is just half of what it takes to be max-worthy. You have to lead vocally, and by example.

    Ironically, JO attacking fans bothered me alot more than Ron and SJAX. My problems with Ron are based far beyond what happened on November 19. That was the "icing on the cake" so to speak.

    I would expect less from Ron and SJAX, because they are average contract players. They arent being paid the big bucks to lead the team. JO is a max player. I thought that JO would have been more mature than that. It really bothered me that "the new face of the franchise" was clobbering fans in Detroit. JO let the fans and the franchise down, plain and simple. What Ron and SJAX did was just as awful, but JO is the franchise now. You can believe that Ron is the key if you want to, and you can make a valid point. But if you believe that, you must believe that JO is severely overpaid.

    Obviously the Pacers had to pay JO the max if they wanted to retain him. He would have bolten to SA. I firmly believe that. If the Pacers would have made a lesser offer, he would have felt extremely disrespected. He didn't merit a max contract at the time. I wouldn't pay a player the max that couldnt lead the team past the Celts, the same Celts team that got smoked by NJ in the next series.

    In a perfect world, the Pacers would have JO on the roster with a reasonable contract. Only Duncan and SHaqlike players deserve such large sums of cash.

    JO-production wise on court, skill wise: top 10 without a doubt

    JO-leadership wise, not even close to top.

    I like having his skills on my team, but I don't think he is a capable leader........yet.

  2. #2
    Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,038

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    I'd rather wait to see if he becomes a leader on the pacers.

    I wouldnt like watching to see if he would become a leader on another team.

    So,it was kind of a do or die type thing as far as the contract goes,Because just like you said, He would've went to SA.You know it,I know it,Everyone on here knows it.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Age
    25
    Posts
    704

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    First off, JO didn't go in the stands I don't think. If he did, wouldn't his suspension be at least as long as SJax's?

    Secondly, he is signed for 7 years. He has played 2 of those 7 years. The first year he got us to the ECF and who knows what would have happened had he not gotten that freak injury and if Tinsley was healthy. This past year, well we all know what happened, and he got us to the second round, where we lost in 6 to the team thats in the Finals now.

    Given the circumstances, I would say he is max-worthy right now, but you can't really say until it becomes apparent that he won't get his to the Finals.

    Wait until we can have a normal season with this current team (or whatever team we have at the start of the season) before we say he can't be a leader. I don't know if he can be an emotional leader, but I know that SJax defintley can as long as it doesn't get him to many T's.

  4. #4
    Banned Jermaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Your baby moms house
    Age
    25
    Posts
    11,717

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    Imagine if JO went to the Spurs. Good God, they would have won the championship everytime for the next 5 years

  5. #5
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,728

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd rather wait to see if he becomes a leader on the pacers.

    I wouldnt like watching to see if he would become a leader on another team.

    So,it was kind of a do or die type thing as far as the contract goes,Because just like you said, He would've went to SA.You know it,I know it,Everyone on here knows it.

    You make a good point.

    It's just that so far, I haven't seen "leader" in him.

    IMO, if a player has never even taken you out of the first round, as JO had not in 03, then he isnt max-worthy.

    They obviously felt like they had to keep him.......at any price.

  6. #6
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,728

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Huxtable
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    First off, JO didn't go in the stands I don't think. If he did, wouldn't his suspension be at least as long as SJax's?

    Secondly, he is signed for 7 years. He has played 2 of those 7 years. The first year he got us to the ECF and who knows what would have happened had he not gotten that freak injury and if Tinsley was healthy. This past year, well we all know what happened, and he got us to the second round, where we lost in 6 to the team thats in the Finals now.

    Given the circumstances, I would say he is max-worthy right now, but you can't really say until it becomes apparent that he won't get his to the Finals.

    Wait until we can have a normal season with this current team (or whatever team we have at the start of the season) before we say he can't be a leader. I don't know if he can be an emotional leader, but I know that SJax defintley can as long as it doesn't get him to many T's.
    Fair enough. He didn't run into the stands like a maniac, but he nailed that one guy pretty bad. The point I was making is that he attacked fans. That's the bottom line.

    ECF's is nice, but he has to get to the finals to justify that contract at all.

  7. #7
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,728

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Imagine if JO went to the Spurs. Good God, they would have won the championship everytime for the next 5 years

    Maybe, maybe not.

    As it is now, the Spurs could win the championship a couple times over the next 5 yeras.

    The Spurs have one of the lower team salarys in the league. I would rather have their deep squad now, than to have 2 maximum contract players in Duncan and JO.

    When you have a player in the post as amazing as Duncan, all you need is some strong perimeter players, along with solid role players. They have those. You don't need to spend the max on another powerforward who isn't as great as Duncan.

  8. #8
    foretaz
    Guest

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    very few max players get their team to the finals and win a championship....

    if u compare jo to tim duncan....hmmm...thats a toughie....tim duncan is the exception and not the rule...no other way around it....29 other teams would love to have tim duncan....

    with the cba being what it is....an attempt to control spending and cap players salaries...ur gonna have many guys making the same money....thats not to say that duncan isnt worth more...but the way it was going they had to stop it....shaqs gonna make 30 million next year-is he worth it...its just a tough call...

    think about this....compared to duncan maybe jo not worth it....though hes not far off from duncan....forgetting salaries right now....who would u realistically trade jo for???

    now....think about this....allan houston will make 19 million next year...penny hardaway will make 16 million as will stephon marbury(god the knicks suck)...chris webber will make 19 million next year....allen iverson 16 million...keith van horn will make 16 million next year...michael finley 16 million...jalen rose will make 16 million...

    now compared to those guys, how does jermaines 16 million look?

    the guy finished 3rd in the mvp voting and led his team to the ECF his first year of his max contract....he was on the way to another super year this year before the brawl...and his team as well as himself would probably had another stellar year if not for the brawl....so say what u will....but he seems to be far more worthy of the max than most...

  9. #9
    Banned Jermaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Your baby moms house
    Age
    25
    Posts
    11,717

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Fair enough. He didn't run into the stands like a maniac, but he nailed that one guy pretty bad. The point I was making is that he attacked fans. That's the bottom line.

    ECF's is nice, but he has to get to the finals to justify that contract at all.
    He has 5 more years to do that

  10. #10
    foretaz
    Guest

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    think about it this way....how many teams would give up both nuts to have jermaine and his max contract....
    whether hes worth the money is not really the question....i mean who is worth 20 million a year???? i guess when theres someone willing to pay that much.....in this case theres probably close to 30 people/teams willing to pay him that much

  11. #11
    PacerSoul
    Guest

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    People are being tough on J.O. He played injured throughout the playoffs so his production in the playoffs does not equate to how good of a player he is.

    To P.F.A.: I don't mind J.O. was involved in the brawl. This whole year will make our team chemistry very very well next year when we are dominating other teams and win 60+ games.

  12. #12
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    8,699

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    In order to discuss the "worthiness" of a max contract one can of course let personal bias be the judge, in which case you get the kind of post as the one that started this thread, or you can let "the market" decide that worthiness and once you land one like the Pacers did, you "hope" for the best as in a comparison with other "max" players.

    it is of course the comparison with other "max" players that decides whether the person the Pacers gave a max contract to is worthy of that honour, letting the market craze of the moment you signed him (where more the just SA was interested in JO who they all knew would command a max contract) sit aside you look at what information you can gather and then decide.

    Now, let's look at who has a max (or very close to) contract in this league:

    (source hoopshype)

    Top NBA Salaries
    1. Shaquille O'Neal Miami $27,696,429
    2. Dikembe Mutombo New Jersey / Houston $18,771,511
    3. Allan Houston New York $17,531,250
    -. Chris Webber Philadelphia $17,531,250
    5. Kevin Garnett Minnesota $16,000,000
    6. Jason Kidd New Jersey $14,791,000
    (unmentioned) JO $ 14,782,000
    7. Anfernee Hardaway New York $14,625,000
    -. Antoine Walker Boston $14,625,000
    -. Shareef Abdur-Rahim Portland $14,625,000
    -. Stephon Marbury New York $14,625,000
    -. Zydrunas Illgauskas Cleveland $14,625,000
    -. Ray Allen Seattle $14,625,000
    -. Allen Iverson Philadelphia $14,625,000
    14. Michael Finley Dallas $14,609,375
    15. Grant Hill Orlando $14,487,000
    -. Keith Van Horn Dallas $14,487,000
    -. Jalen Rose Toronto $14,487,000
    -. Tracy McGrady Houston $14,487,000
    -. Latrell Sprewell Minnesota $14,462,500
    20. Tim Duncan San Antonio $14,260,640
    21. Kobe Bryant LA Lakers $14,175,000
    22. Eddie Jones Miami $13,455,000
    23. Brian Grant LA Lakers $13,233,434
    24. Tim Thomas New York $12,900,000
    25. Antawn Jamison Washington $12,584,688
    -. Vince Carter New Jersey $12,584,688
    -. Dirk Nowitzki Dallas $12,584,688
    28. Paul Pierce Boston $12,569,688
    29. Damon Stoudamire Portland $12,500,000
    30. Baron Davis Golden State $12,330,000

    Next when going down that list you decide on "who is better then JO":

    Shaq / KG / TD / KB / TMac / ............

    Now we can easily decide that JO is a top 10 player, which without a doubt he is, and lo and behold, he is a top 10 earner as well!

    Now see what other teams have to "live" with as "their max player"......

    JO has shown his heart, has shown his qualities, will show his leadership.
    If anything Reggie's presence on the team made the qualification "leader" a very hard one to boot, since the respect most of those guys and certainly JO have for Reggie made Reggie the "natural" leader of the pack, though he didn't want it, and despite Pacers brass calling JO the leader, JO will have felt restricted in his actions/words in the presence of Reggie. That hurdle has now been taken, let's wait and see.

    In my opinion the Pacers are doing fairly well with their max player, certainly compared to the rest of the league.

    Oh yes, I know there are more talents in the league that are not (yet) making a max contract, LBJ, DW but..... 2 years, let's talk again in 5 years time.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    27
    Posts
    488

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    4 Players in the league put up 20/10 numbers, JO also add the blocking. For the 20/10 players, KG(28)/TD(28)/Dirk(26)/JO(25)/Shaq(32) as of last year, all of whome have the max contract, when you see the that only 4 players are putting up 20/10 and JO is the youngest, now, he's not at the caliber of Duncan or KG or Shaq yet, but all four of these players are post players give little exception to Dirk. Now, how many post players got rediculous contracts when they are no where close to JO? Lets see, Adonal Foyle, Erick Dummyer... the list goes on. And Pacers have never been shy of using the big contract to their own players. The point is, you lock up your post players that is putting up 20/10

  14. #14
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northside Bias
    Posts
    12,960

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    Did anybody else see the title of this thread and immediately think of "sponge-worthy"?
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  15. #15
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,728

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Did anybody else see the title of this thread and immediately think of "sponge-worthy"?

    LOL

    I thought about that after I made it.

    That's one of the greatest "Seinfeld" episodes of all time.

    George: "I can never get it open in time, it's like beat the clock"

  16. #16

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    "Max" contract is a misleading term, too. It is not the most a player is worth it is the most he can be paid. Just because Tim Duncan is getting paid 14 mil. It doesn't mean that is what he is worth.

    The only owner in the league who belives that Max = championship is Donald Sterling.

  17. #17

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    I'm sure glad that Jalen was traded.

  18. #18

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    JO has shown his heart, has shown his qualities, will show his leadership.If anything Reggie's presence on the team made the qualification "leader" a very hard one to boot, since the respect most of those guys and certainly JO have for Reggie made Reggie the "natural" leader of the pack, though he didn't want it, and despite Pacers brass calling JO the leader, JO will have felt restricted in his actions/words in the presence of Reggie. That hurdle has
    now been taken, let's wait and see.

    In my opinion the Pacers are doing fairly well with their max player, certainly compared to the rest of the league.
    I totally agree with this. How was JO going to be the face and leader of the franchise when most of the guys put all of their respect towards Reggie?IMO, I think that he would have been less respected and percieved negatively if others thought that he was stepping into Reg's territory, it was his team, and it had been for some odd 13 years before Jermaine had ever arrived. Whether or not Reggie wanted to be seen as the the leader didn't matter, he was.

    To be totally honest if JO had tried to take the step up to be the 'face', there would probably be threads about him taking Reggie's light. Besides, it's finally JO's first year on his own to be leader, let the season start before you start criticize him for not taking the role.
    Life without water is tough, life without air is hard,life with one leg only is wobbly, Life without Reggie Miller, is impossible.

    Do Not Trade Austin

    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Brunner
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Veteran Austin Croshere, the longest-tenured Pacers player on the roster, has proven reliable when called upon, invariably ready to step in regardless of the circumstance.

  19. #19
    PacerSoul
    Guest

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    I miss Jalen. He would have been a great addition to our ball-club. He really is an amazing offensive player only Ron can shut down.

    Don't get me wrong, I rather have Ron than Jalen but why not have both?

  20. #20

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    14,487,000 reasons. If Jalen is here which extensions were not offered? Not to mention that if Jalen was still around Ron wouldn't be here.

  21. #21
    Harmonica
    Guest

    Default Re: What is "max-worthy"

    Quote Originally Posted by kerosene
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    14,487,000 reasons. If Jalen is here which extensions were not offered? Not to mention that if Jalen was still around Ron wouldn't be here.
    If Jalen was still around...

    - there would be no Ron debates...

    - and no Brad debates.


    Peck's raison d'Ítre would be severely diminished.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •