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Thread: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    First let me say this loud and clear. Duncan is better than J.O. Duncan is better than J.O. No dispute there.

    But I believe some of you need to re-consider your criticism of J.O. Yes he struggled in the Pistons series, but now we see TD struggling also. So maybe the Pistons post defense is really, really good. The combo of Ben and Sheed and even McDyess is really tough on post players.

    With Sheed defending one-on-one and Ben coming over to help Duncan has been no where near what he normally is. And when TD gets used to Sheed, they move Ben on him and give him a different look.

    My only point is when criticizing J.O for his performance against the Pistons you have to consider the great defense.

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    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Clearly we need a consistent outside shooter to take pressure of off J.O. but the Spurs have that and even then they are having a hard time.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    We need Jamaal, Ron, Stephen, and Jermaine all out there at the same time. I believe that would do it.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    The only criticism I had of JO was early in the series when he griped at the refs a lot but he put that away later.

    I'd like to see him pass out of the double quicker but since Indy didn't have anyone hitting from outside anyway it's sort of irrelevant.
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    JO's struggles just further emphasize the importance of Ron Artest to this team.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Clearly we need a consistent outside shooter to take pressure of off J.O...
    Weren't we saying this exact same thing last season?
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    UB, caught recycling his bits again.

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    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    The only criticism I had of JO was early in the series when he griped at the refs a lot but he put that away later.

    I'd like to see him pass out of the double quicker but since Indy didn't have anyone hitting from outside anyway it's sort of irrelevant.
    That, and he doesn't exhibit the composure and grace under pressure that TD does.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    That, and he doesn't exhibit the composure and grace under pressure that TD does.
    TD is one of a kind in that regard and is terrific in not displaying emotion.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    JO was seriously banged up aswell, he was like mr "one hand", I do hope people haven't forgotten that either.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    JO was seriously banged up aswell, he was like mr "one hand", I do hope people haven't forgotten that either.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    People do tend to forget that, both times we've played the Pistons in the playoffs, JO was banged up. Not to mention Tinsley.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    That, and he doesn't exhibit the composure and grace under pressure that TD does.
    Not many in this league do my friend

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    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac
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    Not many in this league do my friend
    The greats generally do, my friend.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    The greats generally do, my friend.
    So if JO's not one of the greats, what then?

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    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    So if JO's not one of the greats, what then?
    I honestly don't know. I imagine that some doubt about him has creeped into DW & LB's minds and they'll do what's needed if it comes to that.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    define "great".

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    So if JO's not one of the greats, what then?
    ... a continuing process of maturity.

    -------

    One of Dirty Harry's famous lines was "A man's got to know his limitations."

    I firmly believe that. And, perhaps we should re-word it to "A coach has got to know his players' limitations."

    One of the problems that I've had with JO's play has been his shot selection. I posted during the playoffs about his complete lack of success in shooting the fadeaway-turnaround jumper outside 6-8 feet. When he shot it from about 12 feet or more, his accuracy was atrocious.

    BUT, I don't know whether it was by JO's decision that the shot was taken, or by offensive design. All I know is that when JO gets face up jumpers up to 18 feet, he shoots very accurately.

    However, I will admit that his shot may have been affected by his shoulder injury. But when a player shoots right at 25% on his turnaround and over 60% facing the basket (on the 3 games we actually kept track of), then I think both the player and the coach should take notice.

    So, since Rick could be to blame, JO gets a reprieve from me on that one. [But I sure hope his shot mix is changed next year accordingly.]

    Jermaine doesn't get a reprieve from me regarding rebounding. No one can throw his RB total in my face for any one particular game, even if Jermaine happened to have hauled in 20, when JO also refuses to block out, resulting in extra rebounds and easy put backs for our opponents.

    It's obvious that Jermaine has put in some very hard work to improve his FT percentage. But that one resulted in a benefit to himself... more points. Now I'd like to see him do something for the team... learn to block out.

    If these two things (shot selection and blocking out) about Jermaine's game were changed, I'd be one hell of a happy camper. Matter of fact, I'd even drink the Kool-aid.

  18. #18
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    define "great".

    Regards,

    Mourning
    That's like saying, define "beauty." It means different things to different people. It's difficult to articulate, but you know it when you see it.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    I honestly don't know. I imagine that some doubt about him has creeped into DW & LB's minds and they'll do what's needed if it comes to that.
    Jermaine should not be traded simply because he's not "one of the greats". He might be overpaid, but then so are others like him.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Yeah I guess then Kevin Garnet is not great either

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    It's obvious that Jermaine has put in some very hard work to improve his FT percentage. But that one resulted in a benefit to himself... more points. Now I'd like to see him do something for the team... learn to block out.
    I'm not sure if I completely by into, for today's game, but I still find this very interesting. My dad has been reading a testimonial by Wooden and, obviously, he ties his religion into basketball so it's also explains his coaching philosophies. Anyways, in it he tells how that early in his coaching career he used to teach boxing out, but always seemed to be outrebounded, he then says that he started teaching his players not to box out but swarm the ball. He then states that they started outrebounding their opponents night-in and night-out.

    I just thought was very interesting, coming from a coach who says his first practice every year was devoted on teaching his players how to put on their socks.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    That's like saying, define "beauty." It means different things to different people. It's difficult to articulate, but you know it when you see it.
    Great, like in the history of the NBA, or of the current league?

    If you're saying that he isn't even considered a great player in today's league, then you're crazier than I thought.

    This is a player that finished 3rd in mvp voting just over a year ago. There's very, very few players that are above him. He's definately in the top 20 best players, and I consider all them great players by today's standards.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Great, like in the history of the NBA, or of the current league?

    If you're saying that he isn't even considered a great player in today's league, then you're crazier than I thought.

    This is a player that finished 3rd in mvp voting just over a year ago. There's very, very few players that are above him. He's definately in the top 20 best players, and I consider all them great players by today's standards.
    Reading his posts the past few weeks I just belive he likes to say crazy stuff just to start arguments with people.

  24. #24
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    That's like saying, define "beauty." It means different things to different people. It's difficult to articulate, but you know it when you see it.
    Ah, ok, but then it comes down to perception, right? I mean "knowing it when your seeying it" can be quite subjective/opiniated.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  25. #25
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Ah, ok, but then it comes down to perception, right? I mean "knowing it when your seeying it" can be quite subjective/opiniated.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    Absolutely. I mean, I think there are players we can all agree are great, and others where it's open for debate.

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