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Thread: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    First let me say this loud and clear. Duncan is better than J.O. Duncan is better than J.O. No dispute there.

    But I believe some of you need to re-consider your criticism of J.O. Yes he struggled in the Pistons series, but now we see TD struggling also. So maybe the Pistons post defense is really, really good. The combo of Ben and Sheed and even McDyess is really tough on post players.

    With Sheed defending one-on-one and Ben coming over to help Duncan has been no where near what he normally is. And when TD gets used to Sheed, they move Ben on him and give him a different look.

    My only point is when criticizing J.O for his performance against the Pistons you have to consider the great defense.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Clearly we need a consistent outside shooter to take pressure of off J.O. but the Spurs have that and even then they are having a hard time.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Clearly we need a consistent outside shooter to take pressure of off J.O...
    Weren't we saying this exact same thing last season?

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    We need Jamaal, Ron, Stephen, and Jermaine all out there at the same time. I believe that would do it.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    The only criticism I had of JO was early in the series when he griped at the refs a lot but he put that away later.

    I'd like to see him pass out of the double quicker but since Indy didn't have anyone hitting from outside anyway it's sort of irrelevant.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  6. #6
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    The only criticism I had of JO was early in the series when he griped at the refs a lot but he put that away later.

    I'd like to see him pass out of the double quicker but since Indy didn't have anyone hitting from outside anyway it's sort of irrelevant.
    That, and he doesn't exhibit the composure and grace under pressure that TD does.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    That, and he doesn't exhibit the composure and grace under pressure that TD does.
    TD is one of a kind in that regard and is terrific in not displaying emotion.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    That, and he doesn't exhibit the composure and grace under pressure that TD does.
    Not many in this league do my friend

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    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac
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    Not many in this league do my friend
    The greats generally do, my friend.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    The greats generally do, my friend.
    So if JO's not one of the greats, what then?

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    JO's struggles just further emphasize the importance of Ron Artest to this team.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    UB, caught recycling his bits again.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    JO was seriously banged up aswell, he was like mr "one hand", I do hope people haven't forgotten that either.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    JO was seriously banged up aswell, he was like mr "one hand", I do hope people haven't forgotten that either.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    People do tend to forget that, both times we've played the Pistons in the playoffs, JO was banged up. Not to mention Tinsley.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    define "great".

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  16. #16
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    define "great".

    Regards,

    Mourning
    That's like saying, define "beauty." It means different things to different people. It's difficult to articulate, but you know it when you see it.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    That's like saying, define "beauty." It means different things to different people. It's difficult to articulate, but you know it when you see it.
    Great, like in the history of the NBA, or of the current league?

    If you're saying that he isn't even considered a great player in today's league, then you're crazier than I thought.

    This is a player that finished 3rd in mvp voting just over a year ago. There's very, very few players that are above him. He's definately in the top 20 best players, and I consider all them great players by today's standards.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Great, like in the history of the NBA, or of the current league?

    If you're saying that he isn't even considered a great player in today's league, then you're crazier than I thought.

    This is a player that finished 3rd in mvp voting just over a year ago. There's very, very few players that are above him. He's definately in the top 20 best players, and I consider all them great players by today's standards.
    Reading his posts the past few weeks I just belive he likes to say crazy stuff just to start arguments with people.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    That's like saying, define "beauty." It means different things to different people. It's difficult to articulate, but you know it when you see it.
    Ah, ok, but then it comes down to perception, right? I mean "knowing it when your seeying it" can be quite subjective/opiniated.

    Regards,

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  20. #20
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Ah, ok, but then it comes down to perception, right? I mean "knowing it when your seeying it" can be quite subjective/opiniated.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    Absolutely. I mean, I think there are players we can all agree are great, and others where it's open for debate.

  21. #21
    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    I think the argument that JO was banged up against the Pissed-On's both of the last two years is true, but when is he NOT going to be banged up after a preseason, 82 games in the regular season, and either a first-round, or first- and second-round series already played?

    I have serious doubts that this team can survive long enough to make a title run....It seems we have a team made of glass sometimes.

    Also, you don't cut slack to someone with a max contract....You just don't do it.

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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Yeah I guess then Kevin Garnet is not great either

  23. #23
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    Ehmm.... excuse me, we aren't talking about beying just a tiny bit injured here, we are talking about someone who came back early from a pretty serious injury. I don't think we should be pissing on that, sorry, just my opinion, max. contract or not. Actually I think because he has a max. contract we as a team might be MORE cautious ... we don't want to get something structurally "broke" in his body, do we?

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  24. #24
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    if u do not have 5 players on the court that are all offensive threats, the pistons will expose u....they are all outstanding defenders....they have no individual weakness on defense....which really makes it quite simple then.....if u have an offensive weakness, they will be able to offer help at all times by shading away from that offensive weakness...

    the spurs have offensive weaknesses in the front court....therefore its easy for them to have one of the other guys to help on tim...or jo...or whoever...

    only when u have 5 guys that can score, remember game 4 of the ECFs, will they be in a bit of trouble....then they cant help....because if they do u can then make them pay....and thats what the pacers did in game 4 of the ECF and what every team that beats them does....

    you have 5 guys who can score....and if u have enuff solid defenders to contain the 4 good offensive players they have....u will win....

    and yes...i would tell u that if the pacers had brad miller they would present more problems for the pistons than u could ever imagine....and if david harrison becomes that offensive threat that he can be, they will again have huge problems....they would rarely beat the pacers....

  25. #25
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can we cut J.O some slack after watching Duncan struggle

    My problems with JO do not rest on the series with the Pistons. My problem with JO lies with the fact he is a max $ player and IMHO this season exposed him as having lots of work to do. He is not a player making the team better. In fact, many times the team was better without him.

    He could get there but there is plenty of room for doubt. We need to quit talking about JO being close (or better) than Duncan. He's far from it.

    Actually, Beast23's thoughts were similar to what I'd say in a lot of ways.

    --

    If the blackhole offense is not JO's idea and JO is performing how Rick wants him to then I'll be glad to give Carlisle a ride to the airport. But I have a hard time seeing Carlisle as that stupid... I think we have a player who is more focused on his own scoring and 'meism' over the good of the team. He may usually talk a good game but once he hits the court he plays a different way.

    DK mentioned wanting to see JO pass out of the doubleteams better but then added the Pacers didn't have anyone hitting their shots anyway so the point becomes moot... I have to disagree. IMHO it would balance the Pacers offensive attack better AND unbalance the opposing defense. Therefore, we should get better looks at outside shots in the flow of the game.

    And it keeps the defense honest. That is not something they (defenses) needed to worry about much last season. Just play physical with JO and he'd quickly forget the team game and revert to a player whose idea of a good game is how many he scores and his idea of defense is collecting blocked shots. All the while he'd argue with refs and forget about the game at hand. No blocking out. Whining. Forced shots. ...etc...

    Heretical statement ahead:
    IOW, JO can be more poser than player.

    -Bball
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