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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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A question....

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  • A question....

    This question is inspired by Uncle Buck's question about why fans in Indiana don't (cult like) love Ron Artest.

    This is for a differant player though.

    Why are fans in Indiana so easily disgusted with Al Harrington?

    I'm not saying that I don't get the same way btw, I just want to know why it is that Al doesn't always recieve the benefit of the doubt?

    As an example recently Al had a stint in the starting unit when Ron went down for surgery. He had a mediocre performance during that stretch. He had some games that he was just lousy at & he had a couple of games that he played pretty decent in.

    But almost universally it was considered a bust.

    The thing that makes me curious about this is that Al had legitimate excuses that he never once used.

    An example you say? Prior to the trade deadline it became very public that Al has a lingering injury. One that some people say he should set for. He has made it a point in three differant articles, by my count, to say that he will not use the injury as an exuse.

    Jermaine O'Neal has tendenitis in the knee. Everybody fell all over themselves making sure they said that it was his knee that caused his sub-par performance during the same time. (myself included btw)

    Nobody would accept the same thing from Al or even offered it up as much of an excuse.

    Al is often called selfish & a black hole. Yet nobody ever talks about how Thomas told him it was his job to score for the backups. I know that Thomas is not here now but he had him for four years & it was his formative years.

    Al was drafted by the Pacers. For God's sake this is baby Al were talking about here. He was the teams mascot during the deep playoff runs. Bill Benner even wrote an article about him when they were getting ready to open the fieldhouse & talked about how the building would be mature just as Al's career was winding down.

    He has never caused a problem, in public. Of course we don't know what goes on behind the scenes but from all indications he has not caused a rucus.

    Thomas, Carlisle & Walsh have all complimented him on his professionalism in accepting his role.

    But yet when we talk about trades Al is always the first to be offered up here. I'm sure it's because he is a player who we feel we can depart with & get something in return.

    I guess I just want to ask everybody, why don't we hold anymore loyalty to the guy?

    I honestly beleive that if a poll were taken today online today most of us would choose to trade Al & keep Jon Bender even if it meant we could get the same player.

    BTW, I'm not accusing anybody here. I am just as guilty sometimes about the same thing. I am even asking this question to myself.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    Re: A question....

    Maybe our expectations fro Al are too high. You make a good point he has taken some of the finger pointing that he probably did not deserve.

    I do think that if he were on another team where he knew he was either a power foreward or a small foreward he would be an all star. We expected him to take a couple of games to get used to the sf spot and when he did he put up 21 points. Of course the very next game Ron came back and he went back to being the backup pf.

    I think he just seems like the odd man out. He is not the best sf or the best pf on the team. But he is very good at both and most of us think about what he could bring because he is redundant here.

    We had a few good games out of Bender but the last couple have not been very good. So if we loose Al we would loose the consistent play from the bench.

    I would hate to see us loose Al but I think I have bought into the Al is unhappy with his role story's that we have all read. We take someones word that he was pouting on the bench when taken out for Jeff at the end of the game.

    Most likely it is the old story of you dont appreciate what you have untill it is gone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A question....

      We'll never loose Al. We may lose him for a Center, though.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A question....

        I really liked Al's game prior to his knee surgery. He played w/ high energy (crashing the glass, taking charges, diving for loose balls) and was a good defender - probably our best before Artest came over. He had a good quick first step that allowed him to get by people offensively.

        It seems that he has lost that step along w/ some of the high energy plays he used to make. I would say his defense is average - he has problems keeping players in front of him. Offensively, he can't seem to get by people so he settles for the fade-away quite a bit and his turnovers per game are at a career-high pace.

        I think his game has leveled off and I was looking for bigger and better things from Al. Two years ago I would have guaranteed that Al was going to be an all-star at some point but I can't see that now. I hope I am wrong about that. Maybe I shouldn't have had those expectations but I honestly did.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A question....

          I have to make this short.

          Very good question Peck as usual.

          I have always had special feeling toward AL, maybe because of his personality and that he was drafted straight from high school and we've all seen him grow up. When AL tore his ACL two years ago in that January game in Boston I cried, and felt sick to my stomach for a day or two.

          Jump ahead to today, I have said all season long that AL is the third best player on the team. However I have had big concerns about whether a lineup of AL, J.O and Artest is big enough to compete against most teams. I don't think it is and that is why Foster has been playing most of the crunch time minutes. Pacers interior defense is better when Jeff is in noticeably better.

          Another thing that has hurt AL was the aquisition of Artest. AL's defense seemed good until Ronnie got here and then it paled in comparison. AL seemed like a very good all around player until I got a look at Ron.

          The two best players on the Pacers team right now are clearly J.O and Artest, that is true now and that will be true for the next 10 years, AL will never be better than those two. The problem with that is J.O and Ron play the two positions that AL plays.

          Trading AL: I want an allstar caliber player in return, because I believe AL will be an allstar if he were to go to the right team. I have real reservations about trading AL for Dampier. And I still believe the Pacers choose to keep AL instead of Brad Miller. I think in the end that was the real choice that was made.

          One other thing I need to mention. If AL can accept his current role as 6th man, as someone who finishes some games, but not the majority of games, if AL can accept that role then I hope he is not traded ever. But I don't think he will accept that role and I firmly believe that role is best for the Pacers team, besides I don't know if AL should accept that role, he can do better, maybe not on a 60 win team though.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A question....

            -snip-Al is often called selfish & a black hole. Yet nobody ever talks about how Thomas told him it was his job to score for the backups. I know that Thomas is not here now but he had him for four years & it was his formative years. -snip-
            I hope Isiah only had him for three years. I know that team drove to me to drink a lot back then but I don't think I blacked out for an entire season.

            One other thing I need to mention. If AL can accept his current role as 6th man, as someone who finishes some games, but not the majority of games, if AL can accept that role then I hope he is not traded ever. But I don't think he will accept that role and I firmly believe that role is best for the Pacers team, besides I don't know if AL should accept that role, he can do better, maybe not on a 60 win team though.
            Al reminds me a lot of Elton Brand in this regard - each is too small to really dominate at thier best position even though they're capable of putting up really nice numbers.

            I beleive if you flip-flopped the two, Al could put up Elton's numbers for the Roach Clips but they wouldn't have a different record. Elton could fill the suber-sub role for the Pacers but we wouldn't have a different record.

            But if you look at it from the individual point of view, not the team point of view, then Al could be a borderline all-star on a weaker team. NBA players have a short window of time when their earning potential is at its maximum - I'd rather have every player in the league look out for the best interests of the Pacers but lets face it, they need to look out for #1.

            And that becomes even more true when the player suffers a career-threatening injury, and while he's hurt his team trades for his replacement who, in turn, proceeds to disrupt the team with a league-leading number of suspensions for a season-and-a-half.

            Peck, I like Al, but I'm no longer opposed to trading him. I think one of the causes of this double-standard is that Al really wears his emotions on his sleeve. He won't be confused with a cold-blooded type of player. Since its so easy to see when he's happy, its also easy to infer when he's pouting, sulking, disappointed, upset, etc. I'm not saying this is automatically wrong but it opens the doors for fans like us to think we know more about what's going on inside his head. Therefore, he isn't judged on basketball alone.

            We'll never loose Al. We may lose him for a Center, though.
            Poor Ragnar. Its too bad "loose" would pass a spell checker or I'd recommend one of those little programs that can check spelling in any text box.

            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A question....

              Man I cant believe I keep doing that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A question....

                Man I cant believe I keep doing that.
                At this point I just assumed it was on purpose......
                PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A question....

                  Man I cant believe I keep doing that.
                  At this point I just assumed it was on purpose......
                  A couple of times it was but not that time.

                  I got straight A's in spelling in school but in the mean time I seem to have forgotten how to spell. It must be all the books by foreign authors I read. Yeah thats the ticket.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A question....

                    sorry
                    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A question....

                      sorry still
                      "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                      "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A question....

                        I think there are two reasons some are hard on him:

                        1) They think that he should be traded (which it may come to that becasue he might be too good to be a bench player and unless Ron is actually a 2 that is all Al will be here) and they are trying to justify a trading a good player and cushion the blow. Kind of like when Brad got traded suddenly he had a bad work ethic, was slow, and had peaked.

                        2) When Ron first came here there was a competition between Al supporters and Ron supports because it wasn't clear then who was the better player for this team. Although Ron is now clearly the better player the there is carry over in criticing Al in order to justify what a good player and model citizen Ron is.

                        I like Al and UB pretty much summed up my feelings on him. If we do trade him I will feel best if we get an all-star caliber guard.

                        But when we trade him I think will will miss him more. When Ron or JO go out there will be a big let up and teams will have a bigger sense of relief. With Al we still have a post treat when JO leaves and a good defender when Ron leaves. (Some may disagree about Al's defense which has become a recent criticism but compare Al's defense to our next best SF) The fact is Al really helps us wear down teams because there is not let up.
                        "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                        "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A question....

                          Looks like 6 reasons to me.....
                          PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A question....

                            I felt very passionate about it
                            "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                            "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A question....

                              I felt very passionate about it
                              PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                              Comment

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