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Thread: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

  1. #101
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Just for the record, that whole rant wasn’t directed sole at you, you just happened to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

    Oh, and to me just because someone doesn’t know the difference between rap and r&b music doesn’t make him or her uninformed.

    I love hip hop (I have HOT99.5 here in DC on, which lives eminem music, and I live Sirius radio with eminems station Shade 45 and channel 50) and even I can have a hard time distinguishing some music

    You have a valid point, I just dont think that was a good example.

    And I have no clue why I am in such a argumentative mood today...
    my point was simple...and i dont mind what ur saying....and i struggle to not judge at times, as we probably all do on here...but heres what i was thinking

    the kid is 17...

    id much rather him have and formulate his own opinions than just some random ones hes read on a message board....

    his posts seem to always be almost copy and pastes of what someone(many times jay or peck) have to say...

    it would only be my hope that no matter who u are, but especially our youth, be independent enuff to come up with their own ideas and opinions versus just repeating verbatim something theyve heard or read...

    thats all....he seems like a good kid....hes a bit spoiled if hes only followed the pacers the last 10 years...but thats probably a good thing...i wouldnt want to have him suffer thru some of the leaner ones....just want to encourage him to think on his own a bit....

  2. #102

    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    If the Pacers do give up on Artest and decide to trade him I don't think Ron's trade value at this point in time could net the Pacers a quality starting center so you would probably have to trade him for a young small forward with similar skills. The problem is that type of deal would be a significant downgrade at that starting spot for the Pacers. Say what you will about Ron's antics but very few starting 3's can bring it at both ends of the court like Artest and even fewer(probably none) that you would be able to obtain in an Artest trade.

    Like UB mentioned I think Prince/Iggy would fill the void nicely but I don't think the Sixers or Pistons would pull the trigger on that type of deal. Nocioni would be a good fit but teams probably aren't going to move those types of 3's for Artest because of the risk involved and those guys already know their systems.

    I think that leaves you with "2nd Tier" quality young swingmen like maybe a package deal for a guy like Pietrus who can defend but doesn't bring the offense like Artest does to a team.

    I compare the Artest situation with the scenario the Bulls had with Dennis Rodman. They knew they could never trade Rodman for anything close to a comparable power forward and they were over the cap so the only option they had if they wanted to keep winning championships was to cope with Rodman's antics. They made sure to have strong veteran leadership on their team to somewhat keep Rodman in line but they dealt with his antics(he had plenty of them) because they knew what he could bring to the court was unique and they wouldn't be able to replace him or win it all without him with the salary cap structure of the NBA. The still would have been a terrific team without Rodman but I don't think they would have won it all a couple of those years had they just decided to dump Rodman because of his issues.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Just for the record, that whole rant wasn’t directed sole at you, you just happened to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

    Oh, and to me just because someone doesn’t know the difference between rap and r&b music doesn’t make him or her uninformed.

    I love hip hop (I have HOT99.5 here in DC on, which lives eminem music, and I live Sirius radio with eminems station Shade 45 and channel 50) and even I can have a hard time distinguishing some music
    I find him uninformed simply because even in this very thread Jay used a column by Chad Ford that refuted the whole wanting time off due to the record arguement. If he wants to say something about the physical problems, that's fine, but atleast get the story straight.

  4. #104
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by dipperdunk
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    If the Pacers do give up on Artest and decide to trade him I don't think Ron's trade value at this point in time could net the Pacers a quality starting center so you would probably have to trade him for a young small forward with similar skills. The problem is that type of deal would be a significant downgrade at that starting spot for the Pacers. Say what you will about Ron's antics but very few starting 3's can bring it at both ends of the court like Artest and even fewer(probably none) that you would be able to obtain in an Artest trade.

    Like UB mentioned I think Prince/Iggy would fill the void nicely but I don't think the Sixers or Pistons would pull the trigger on that type of deal. Nocioni would be a good fit but teams probably aren't going to move those types of 3's for Artest because of the risk involved and those guys already know their systems.

    I think that leaves you with "2nd Tier" quality young swingmen like maybe a package deal for a guy like Pietrus who can defend but doesn't bring the offense like Artest does to a team.

    I compare the Artest situation with the scenario the Bulls had with Dennis Rodman. They knew they could never trade Rodman for anything close to a comparable power forward and they were over the cap so the only option they had if they wanted to keep winning championships was to cope with Rodman's antics. They made sure to have strong veteran leadership on their team to somewhat keep Rodman in line but they dealt with his antics(he had plenty of them) because they knew what he could bring to the court was unique and they wouldn't be able to replace him or win it all without him with the salary cap structure of the NBA. The still would have been a terrific team without Rodman but I don't think they would have won it all a couple of those years had they just decided to dump Rodman because of his issues.
    which is one of the reasons i believe dale davis was brought back....everywhere dale goes, his teammates wow over him....while seemingly never perceived as a 'leader' by the true definition, he seems to be a stabilizing and unifying sort as he seems to get along with everyone....it seems teammates cant help but respect him as well as like him....his influence in the locker room with some of the perceived tension could be very impactful....

    its my personal selfish hope that he takes both ron and david harrison under his wing....this might be a bit much to ask of him....but i cant help but think that by doing so the impact would be phenomenal.....the calming influence that he would bring would help the both of them...especially ron....getting david and ron together would be very beneficial from a workout standpoint for david....and dale has been known to take a great deal of pride in keeping his body in great shape...if dale could help in the maturation process of the two and somehow a bond is formed between david and ron, the pacers could be reaping some very long term rewards....

  5. #105
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    please, please tell me u cant be serious about trading artest for dunleavy...

    because, as quickly as that, we would leave the upper tier of teams and be another also ran....we would lack toughness and intensity....

    with ron, i know we have a legitimate shot to win the title....with dunleavy instead of artest, i know we do not....

    id rather have a chance than no chance at all....

    if some think the odds are against it, that ron will be able to make it....then so be it....

    ill take those odds, based on the fact that things arent very likely to happen like they did last nov. again....

    ill take slim odds, if u will, versus no chance....

    and i happen to think the odds of ron and this team succeeding are much higher than some of u....

    but i know one thing for certain...if u think that jo, dale, dunleavy, jack, and jt are a title contender......UR FRIGGEN CRAZY....

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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    my point was simple...and i dont mind what ur saying....and i struggle to not judge at times, as we probably all do on here...but heres what i was thinking

    the kid is 17...

    id much rather him have and formulate his own opinions than just some random ones hes read on a message board....

    his posts seem to always be almost copy and pastes of what someone(many times jay or peck) have to say...

    it would only be my hope that no matter who u are, but especially our youth, be independent enuff to come up with their own ideas and opinions versus just repeating verbatim something theyve heard or read...

    thats all....he seems like a good kid....hes a bit spoiled if hes only followed the pacers the last 10 years...but thats probably a good thing...i wouldnt want to have him suffer thru some of the leaner ones....just want to encourage him to think on his own a bit....
    I have formulated my own opinions, and that is I want Artest off this team. Do I restate the opions of Peck and Jay in my posts about Artest? Sure, because Peck and Jay do such an excellent point in laying out their beliefs on the issue.

    You don't know me at all. I think that you form a negative opinion of me because of my age.

    I said that Ron Artest worked on a Rap album. I was wrong, it was R&B. I don't care if it is Rap, R&B, Country, Rock, or whatever. I could care less. He worked on the album, that's the bottom line.

    We know that Artest said something to Carlisle back in November. Whether it's that he wanted time off or wanted to retire is debatable. There have been conflicting reports. That, and the feud with JO was the final straw for me. NOvember 19 just built on it, and it just amazes me what people see in this guy.

    I wish you didn't have to make things so personal. Attack what I write, instead of bringing up that I'm 17 in every post that you make. Does it matter if I'm 17 or 117?

  7. #107
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    please, please tell me u cant be serious about trading artest for dunleavy...

    because, as quickly as that, we would leave the upper tier of teams and be another also ran....we would lack toughness and intensity....

    with ron, i know we have a legitimate shot to win the title....with dunleavy instead of artest, i know we do not....

    id rather have a chance than no chance at all....

    if some think the odds are against it, that ron will be able to make it....then so be it....

    ill take those odds, based on the fact that things arent very likely to happen like they did last nov. again....

    ill take slim odds, if u will, versus no chance....

    and i happen to think the odds of ron and this team succeeding are much higher than some of u....

    but i know one thing for certain...if u think that jo, dale, dunleavy, jack, and jt are a title contender......UR FRIGGEN CRAZY....

    Come on you can do better than that.

    With one fell stroke of your keyboard you just exposed yourself. You just made it clear to the world that you feel that Ron is THE player on our team & that with a lesser player we are no longer a contender.

    I won't argue semantics with you because both of our positions are well defined.

    But have you watched Mike play? I have several times & I love his game.

    Let me ask you something. Did you feel that Chris Mullin was a good or bad small forward? Chris didn't play killer defense but he did everything else very well.

    Same exact thing for Mike. He is only OK as a defender but he does everything else very very well. His outside shooting alone is worth considering.

    He's a tough kid who, as U.B. stated, can play point forward for you & do very very well.

    Can you put him on Paul Pierce & expect him to shut him down? No.

    But could he be the perfect small forward to go opposite J.O. because of his ability to drive & hit the outside shot? Hell Yes.

    Man, this is getting bad. You are making Uncle Buck & Suaveness look reasonable when it comes to dealing with Ron.

    But I still love ya.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  8. #108
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    I have formulated my own opinions, and that is I want Artest off this team. Do I restate the opions of Peck and Jay in my posts about Artest? Sure, because Peck and Jay do such an excellent point in laying out their beliefs on the issue.

    You don't know me at all. I think that you form a negative opinion of me because of my age.

    I said that Ron Artest worked on a Rap album. I was wrong, it was R&B. I don't care if it is Rap, R&B, Country, Rock, or whatever. I could care less. He worked on the album, that's the bottom line.

    We know that Artest said something to Carlisle back in November. Whether it's that he wanted time off or wanted to retire is debatable. There have been conflicting reports. That, and the feud with JO was the final straw for me. NOvember 19 just built on it, and it just amazes me what people see in this guy.

    I wish you didn't have to make things so personal. Attack what I write, instead of bringing up that I'm 17 in every post that you make. Does it matter if I'm 17 or 117?

    u misunderstand and are much to defensive my young padawan....i said u seem to be a good young kid....i, in no way, am disparaging you for age....

    it is YOUR WRITING im concerned with....not that you should be of concern to me....but u seem like a bright kid...so i would much rather u write to us something that seems much like ur own ideas than almost verbatim what peck or jay writes...

    you are a young bright individual....you seem to have the ability and the desire to contribute....utilize ur youth and ur desire to bring a freshness, a breath of exhilaration into the conversation, not rehash what peck or jay said...i can read them just fine...im anxious to see what our youth really feel...not see their ability to copy and paste peck and jay....i wanna see things from ur perspective....i can see things from jay and pecks- we are the same age....ur perspective is one that might be a bit more difficult for me to see....and when u give me jays and pecks im a bit disappointed...thats all...

    you want to contribute...thats obvious....and i like that...instead of trying to be like jay and peck...just be yourself.....i look forward to that....

  9. #109
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    u misunderstand and are much to defensive my young padawan....i said u seem to be a good young kid....i, in no way, am disparaging you for age....

    it is YOUR WRITING im concerned with....not that you should be of concern to me....but u seem like a bright kid...so i would much rather u write to us something that seems much like ur own ideas than almost verbatim what peck or jay writes...

    you are a young bright individual....you seem to have the ability and the desire to contribute....utilize ur youth and ur desire to bring a freshness, a breath of exhilaration into the conversation, not rehash what peck or jay said...i can read them just fine...im anxious to see what our youth really feel...not see their ability to copy and paste peck and jay....i wanna see things from ur perspective....i can see things from jay and pecks- we are the same age....ur perspective is one that might be a bit more difficult for me to see....and when u give me jays and pecks im a bit disappointed...thats all...

    you want to contribute...thats obvious....and i like that...instead of trying to be like jay and peck...just be yourself.....i look forward to that....

    OK, now I get what your saying.

    Just give me some time tonight, and I will try to give a detailed post on this thread to what I feel.

  10. #110
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Come on you can do better than that.

    With one fell stroke of your keyboard you just exposed yourself. You just made it clear to the world that you feel that Ron is THE player on our team & that with a lesser player we are no longer a contender.

    I won't argue semantics with you because both of our positions are well defined.

    But have you watched Mike play? I have several times & I love his game.

    Let me ask you something. Did you feel that Chris Mullin was a good or bad small forward? Chris didn't play killer defense but he did everything else very well.

    Same exact thing for Mike. He is only OK as a defender but he does everything else very very well. His outside shooting alone is worth considering.

    He's a tough kid who, as U.B. stated, can play point forward for you & do very very well.

    Can you put him on Paul Pierce & expect him to shut him down? No.

    But could he be the perfect small forward to go opposite J.O. because of his ability to drive & hit the outside shot? Hell Yes.

    Man, this is getting bad. You are making Uncle Buck & Suaveness look reasonable when it comes to dealing with Ron.

    But I still love ya.
    only a couple of things, really....

    i have watched dunleavy play...

    id rather give the starting spot to JJ if thats the choice....i can live with JJ much easier than i can dunleavy....

    now listen closely, because this might be a bit new to the conversation....but this is kinda what goes on in the back of my mind...

    when ron has a bad game, which all nba players do, he still impacts the game quite positively for the pacers and gives them a chance to win....very, very few players in the nba can do that....dunleavy isnt one of them...as id say, id take JJ over probably most of the options we would have given RAs trade value...

    and please dont u or anyone say anything about, well yea, if he plays...i dont think u would , but others might, and thats not the issue or the point and i know u know that...

  11. #111
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    for many of us it is more than a game....however to those of us where it is more than just a game, we tend to know a bit more about it-which is evident how serious it is to us....

    PFA, has this knack for only regurgitating what he reads.....almost as if hes an uninformed spokesperson on here....

    those that truly have disdain for ron are usually able to give an 'accurate' laundry list defining such, and most do it within a context that directly relates how it strikes them personally....

    PFA, on the one hand, is only 17....hes got so much that could be going on his life and i have a feeling he does....it appears this whole ron-ron thing is much more of a 'game' to him and that it doesnt really mean that much to him personally...and my reasons for saying such are that his statements on here are borderline plagiaristic and lacking IMO any real reflection from him....only things hes seen typed before....the fact that some of the very things hes typed and grandstanded about are in error....the type of error that is made by the uninformed media trying to put out propaganda....when someone mentions ron did a rap album.....they lose all credibility with me....if ur so passionate about this whole issue yet u dont have a clue about the truth, well something doesnt ring true in that scenario....ron produced an R&B record...he didnt do a rap album....anyone that is truly interested would know the truth....anyone that just reads haphazardly some stuff and wants to jump in for whatever reason, might not...
    You, of all people, are accusing someone of grandstanding? You've just spent roughly two pages worth of ramblings discussing how the poor guy doesn't know the difference between rap and R&B! You've taken one minor error and analyzed it from every possible angle, taking your sweet time to degrade PFA along the way. You, Mr. Foretaz, are the one guilty of grandstanding.

    Please stop tearing into Adam's posting style/way of life simply because he's 17. You're smarter than that, I think.
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  12. #112
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    I think some of you guys are overestimating seriously overestimating JJ.

    I like the kid, but yeeessh. Forget Ron from this whole discussion. I'd trade JJ for Dunleavey every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
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  13. #113
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    You, of all people, are accusing someone of grandstanding? You've just spent roughly two pages worth of ramblings discussing how the poor guy doesn't know the difference between rap and R&B! You've taken one minor error and analyzed it from every possible angle, taking your sweet time to degrade PFA along the way. You, Mr. Foretaz, are the one guilty of grandstanding.

    Please stop tearing into Adam's posting style/way of life simply because he's 17. You're smarter than that, I think.
    lol...u r letting ur inherent desire to debate and argue as well as ur defensiveness regarding ur age cloud ur thinking to the point ur missing the message...

    PFA gets it now...now its ur turn...

    you young guys have the opportunity to really bring something to this board...

    a different perspective....

    when u echo the sentiments of others and simply restate the same things they do, its a disappointment....

    now u, SIG, are a bit different than adam....as ive told u, i think u live for the battle-the debate, more than whats actually being said...ive told u a couple of times i swear u use this forum to practice up for ur debate club....

    and nothing wrong with that...if thats what u want...

    though i often wonder, if i said i hated artest, and gave u the reasons i think he should be gone, if u wouldnt do an about face on us....but i dont see that happening in the near future, so we cant know for sure...

    i will tell u this....u seem to have far more of an issue about ur age than i do....ur age is basically unimportant when not discussing the different perspective u can give....i know how i was at 15 or 17 where the pacers are concerned....its just so damn long ago, that i probably cant give that perspective the justice u can....

    so .....give it to us...cause its important....your age isnt, except for that....i can accept that.....can u???

    remember something...its very difficult to be wrong about something u feel....it is however, very easy to be wrong in something that u argue or debate.....facts are, by and large, objective.....feelings are subjective....i was trying to get PFA to dwell more on his feelings versus the facts....i would do the same to u...though as ive said u seem to really like the debate aspect so it might fall on deaf ears

  14. #114
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I think some of you guys are overestimating seriously overestimating JJ.

    I like the kid, but yeeessh. Forget Ron from this whole discussion. I'd trade JJ for Dunleavey every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    not i...said he...

    i dont think i overestimate at all....i just see JJ having the potential to get alot , lot better....will he? i dunno...but at least the potential is there...

    dunleavy is what he is....hed be a good guy off the bench....not ever a key guy in a champion....in my estimation hes gotten about as good as hes gonna get.....everyone improves, but i believe his will be marginal....

    greatness wins championships....dunleavy will never be great....JJ might be...

    i would propose to u that many are overestimating dunleavy...

    bottom line is neither one provides near the chance that ron does to win a championship....

    and thats the truly sad part of this conversation....

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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    lol...u r letting ur inherent desire to debate and argue as well as ur defensiveness regarding ur age cloud ur thinking to the point ur missing the message...


    PFA gets it now...now its ur turn...

    you young guys have the opportunity to really bring something to this board...

    a different perspective....

    when u echo the sentiments of others and simply restate the same things they do, its a disappointment....

    now u, SIG, are a bit different than adam....as ive told u, i think u live for the battle-the debate, more than whats actually being said...ive told u a couple of times i swear u use this forum to practice up for ur debate club....

    and nothing wrong with that...if thats what u want...

    though i often wonder, if i said i hated artest, and gave u the reasons i think he should be gone, if u wouldnt do an about face on us....but i dont see that happening in the near future, so we cant know for sure...

    i will tell u this....u seem to have far more of an issue about ur age than i do....ur age is basically unimportant when not discussing the different perspective u can give....i know how i was at 15 or 17 where the pacers are concerned....its just so damn long ago, that i probably cant give that perspective the justice u can....

    so .....give it to us...cause its important....your age isnt, except for that....i can accept that.....can u???

    remember something...its very difficult to be wrong about something u feel....it is however, very easy to be wrong in something that u argue or debate.....facts are, by and large, objective.....feelings are subjective....i was trying to get PFA to dwell more on his feelings versus the facts....i would do the same to u...though as ive said u seem to really like the debate aspect so it might fall on deaf ears

    First off, I could not care less about a debate, really. I don't see how you think I was even trying to debate in my last post. There was nothing to debate.

    You were grandstanding. You do it often, but if you do it while ripping apart another poster, I am going to tell you what I think.

    I think I need to remind you that you were the one that brought age into this discussion, and later kept it in the discussion. As you said, age isn't a big deal, and I like it kept that way. Your comment about Adam's age were obtuse.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    There are 2 players that I would trade Artest for ( that can reasonably be had ):

    AK47 ( if you consider him a tweener SF/PF ) or Marion.

    Players like Peja ( who is injury prone and fades during the playoffs ) and Pierce ( who would need the ball in his hand to be effective ) wouldn't fit a Pacers team that has 2 (maybe 3) other scorers on the team.

    Players like AK47 and Marion are capable of contributing on the floor even if they are not putting the ball in the hoop.

    If AK47 or Marion can't be had...then I would go with Iggy and Dalambert in S&T for Artest/Pollard or Foster ( which only will happen in my dreams ). Iggy is gonna be a solid defensive/offensive player in the future.

    Okay...let the venom fly....

  17. #117
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    First off, I could not care less about a debate, really. I don't see how you think I was even trying to debate in my last post. There was nothing to debate.

    You were grandstanding. You do it often, but if you do it while ripping apart another poster, I am going to tell you what I think.

    I think I need to remind you that you were the one that brought age into this discussion, and later kept it in the discussion. As you said, age isn't a big deal, and I like it kept that way. Your comment about Adam's age were obtuse.
    lol...see how u are??? ur just not happy or content unless ur defending something....

    hey...SIG

    soup is bad....i hate it....

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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    lol...see how u are??? ur just not happy or content unless ur defending something....

    hey...SIG

    soup is bad....i hate it....
    Actually I'm pretty unhappy when I have to defend something. If it were a perfect world, I would like everything that I see, everything would be oh so pretty.


    Eh. Soup is okay. I'm not really a soup fanatic, just typed the first thing that came to my mind when I came to "Username:."
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  19. #119
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    There are 2 players that I would trade Artest for ( that can reasonably be had ):

    AK47 ( if you consider him a tweener SF/PF ) or Marion.

    Players like Peja ( who is injury prone and fades during the playoffs ) and Pierce ( who would need the ball in his hand to be effective ) wouldn't fit a Pacers team that has 2 (maybe 3) other scorers on the team.

    Players like AK47 and Marion are capable of contributing on the floor even if they are not putting the ball in the hoop.

    If AK47 or Marion can't be had...then I would go with Iggy and Dalambert in S&T for Artest/Pollard or Foster ( which only will happen in my dreams ). Iggy is gonna be a solid defensive/offensive player in the future.



    Okay...let the venom fly....

    only one problem....none of the teams even think for a moment of doing these deals....and therein lies the problem.....

    as i said before....i wouldnt have minded the tmac deal....though tmac makes 9 million a year more and i have a hard time seeing where we arent better off keeping ron and getting another substantial player for that 9 million.....

    but if it has to be done thats something u can live with...but just as the magic wouldnt do it....no other team is gonna do it either....they know the market is very limited for ron...so theyre not gonna give anything near equal value...cause they deem him a risk that they dont have to take....

    just like with tmac last year....on the rare opportunity u have a player of that caliber that wants out....there are gonna be other deals out there that are safer for a team than ron artest....which is one of the reasons hes only making 6 million....so where i sit, given that fact....u just do ur very best to find a way to make him work, and realize the alternative is mike dunleavy or something even worse....u trade for dunleavy and it wont be long before many realize the foolishness in their thoughts...and though they might not admit it, theyd be longing for the days where they had to put up with whatever antics he brings in exchange for all the positives and the chance to win the title that he brings

  20. #120
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Egads. That's a new low for justifying an Artest trade. Most of that 13 million is Pollard and Miller's salary. White makes peanuts.

    Sorry I forgot to also add Fred Jones & Jamaal Tinsely to the list of players that come off of the books that year. But I assume both of those will either be re-signed or traded by then.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  21. #121
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I think some of you guys are overestimating seriously overestimating JJ.

    I like the kid, but yeeessh. Forget Ron from this whole discussion. I'd trade JJ for Dunleavey every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


    Now that I agree with.

    I like Dunleavy, and he likely would do very, very well in Carlisle's system. His defense would drive me up a wall though

  22. #122
    Member CableKC's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    only one problem....none of the teams even think for a moment of doing these deals....and therein lies the problem.....

    as i said before....i wouldnt have minded the tmac deal....though tmac makes 9 million a year more and i have a hard time seeing where we arent better off keeping ron and getting another substantial player for that 9 million.....

    but if it has to be done thats something u can live with...but just as the magic wouldnt do it....no other team is gonna do it either....they know the market is very limited for ron...so theyre not gonna give anything near equal value...cause they deem him a risk that they dont have to take....

    just like with tmac last year....on the rare opportunity u have a player of that caliber that wants out....there are gonna be other deals out there that are safer for a team than ron artest....which is one of the reasons hes only making 6 million....so where i sit, given that fact....u just do ur very best to find a way to make him work, and realize the alternative is mike dunleavy or something even worse....u trade for dunleavy and it wont be long before many realize the foolishness in their thoughts...and though they might not admit it, theyd be longing for the days where they had to put up with whatever antics he brings in exchange for all the positives and the chance to win the title that he brings
    You're right....given their situations....there would be very little reason for Utah and Phoenix's GMs to trade for Artest.

    My main point is that because there isn't too many players that I would trade Artest for....given his salary and the expected "craziness" that comes with the territory. Just like there was an opportunity for the Pacers to get a player on the level of TMac.....if a situation like that ever occured for the Pacers to get either AK47 or Marion...I would jump on it....despite the expected cost to make the trade work salarywise.

    If we can't get either of these 2 players....then I will live with what Artest provides....solid offense and great defense with a hint of "craziness" mixed in for the occasional outburst that gets him suspended for a game or two.

  23. #123
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Now that I agree with.

    I like Dunleavy, and he likely would do very, very well in Carlisle's system. His defense would drive me up a wall though
    Watching him play in the Bay Area.....he is not very good if he is relied on to be a starter. But as a backup SF....DunDun would be a pretty solid backup player....even a good fit as a 6th man. He would be a good offensive punch off the bench if given 20+ minutes a game.

    You just have to ignore that he is completely lost on the defensive end. But if we got used to that with Croshere...then we can get used to it with DunDun.

  24. #124
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    or season
    -10 points for obvious response.

  25. #125
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    You're right....given their situations....there would be very little reason for Utah and Phoenix's GMs to trade for Artest.

    My main point is that because there isn't too many players that I would trade Artest for....given his salary and the expected "craziness" that comes with the territory. Just like there was an opportunity for the Pacers to get a player on the level of TMac.....if a situation like that ever occured for the Pacers to get either AK47 or Marion...I would jump on it....despite the expected cost to make the trade work salarywise.

    If we can't get either of these 2 players....then I will live with what Artest provides....solid offense and great defense with a hint of "craziness" mixed in for the occasional outburst that gets him suspended for a game or two.
    though, some here will absolutely hate this argument....its one i agree with, though have been reluctant to say because i know how it will go over....

    he makes 6 million a year....anyone similar makes, for the most part, two to 3 times what he makes....

    its a bargain that doesnt come without a price....u find a way to minimize and eliminate as much of the downside as u can....and realize what comes with the total package....

    like ive said...what u can get for the additional 6-12 million he doesnt make can go along way in helping win a title....

    not unlike the high performance luxury cars that require more attention and are more expensive to maintain, ron comes with an added cost that must be factored in...

    but id rather drive a ferrari that needs constant tuneups and has a leaking tire that i constantly have to be aware of than drive a chevy.....

    and yes...i can already hear the blowout comments coming...

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