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Thread: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

  1. #26
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Its from Chad Ford...

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=6945

    Remember, quite a few of Ron's early-season "sins" all got swept aside the the brawl aftermath. But those things bother me much more than the brawl.

    You used that article to prove one of your points, but it totally refuted another.

    Did Ron ask for time off because of his rap album, or for other issues like Chad quotes Donnie as saying?

  2. #27
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Yeah, I knew that, but oh well.

    Ironically, Ron later blamed the Pacers for saying it had to do with the rap album (because, of course, that made him look like he was not committed to the team that was advertising "one goal").

    I have never believed Ron wanted to take time off to promote the rap album, or that he wanted to retire because "his body was hurting" or any of that. I've always believed he quit on the team after he and JO exchanged punches because he refuses to accept JO as the team's leader/ best player. And as I've said many times, my opinion of JO was also lowered, because sometimes the leader has to humble himself for the benefit of his/her followers, and JO doesn't seem like he's ready to lead people that aren't really committed to following him in the first place. (Of course that's no easy task so maybe I am too hard on JO because I expect a lot from him.)

    When I make references to the rap album, its for the posters that only believe what they read in the newspapers, so that they'll know which of Ron's many incidents I'm referring to.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  3. #28
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    i like ur avatar, BTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Last year, the story was that Ron was more interested in busting his *** to promote that album than bust his *** to help the Pacers.

    First, he promised the album would be done by the time the season started. It was reported that he came into camp out of shape and the album wasn't done. Alledgedly, he wanted time off to finish that, or at least that was the "public story" but many of us also know that he just plain volunteered to quit on the team.
    Jay...last year is over...while i realize its important to learn from the past i also know we cant continue to live in the past....most importantly we cant continue to punish people for things theyve already been punished for...that shows a sign of deepseated resentment and the unwillingness to forgive...yes...he made mistakes...people make mistakes...they learn from their mistakes-more often, it would seem, when the punishments are so severe....its a bit unfair to bring up only the negative things that hve happened, especially when it happened last year, or 2 years ago or whenever....if ur looking for a pattern regarding his behavioral issues it would be inaccurate to say hes not improving...and thats quite key in a situation such as this....


    Perhaps he will bust his *** no matter what the situation is. Maybe he won't. That's anything but a certainty, however. The more important question is, will Ron be busting his *** while he looks out for #1, as he's known to do? Or will he ever learn to channel his efforts toward the team (and willingly submit his individual talents for the good of the team)?
    given every thing that has happened to u really question what type of shape hes gonna be in? we both know better....and do u really believe there are times when he wont bust his *** when hes on the floor....his work ethic and effort are almost unmatched-i know u have to know this....management and coaching staff basically have said this very thing many times...

    ron has gone thru a life changing situation....it remains to be seen how he comes out of it....but if a persons heart is in the right place, and hes gotten the proper help, then it certainly would seem he could come out of it with a much deeper appreciation for his team, his organization and himself....and as a pacer fan, the prospect of witnessing how that unfolds is one that i look forward to with much anticipation...


    I've always said, if we were picking players for the NBA 1-on-1 tourney that Ron would be my guy. But in a team setting, he's not very useful and he's borderline expendable.

    If he were to be traded, I'd be happy with a box of warm Krispy Kreme's. I'd like the Pacers to come up with *any* other legit starting SF, because the lack of a contingency plan last season cost Reggie and the rest of the team a shot at a title. They could do that via the draft, free agency, or trade. Its not like these guys totally sucked without him, his presence is significantly overstated.
    im not sure how having the premier defender in the league isnt useful....especially given this teams inability to stop the very good perimeter players....nevermind a multiple threat offensive player....having a threat such as him on the floor makes everyone automatically better...hes a tough matchup for anyone on the offensive end....and considering he changes the game on the defensive end i really dont know how he could be borderline expendable....

    as far as ur contingency plan statements i totally disagree....in fact i believe u couldnt be further from the truth....bender played very well at the end of the season and playoffs....jack was brought in to back up the 2 and 3...james jones was there, though noone could see how they might have been able to use him much....freddie jones could play the backup 2 if for some reason jack had to spend most of the minutes at the 3....bottom line for the wing positions going into the season we had the following....artest, miller, jack, bender, f. jones, and jj....i would hardly say that there was a poor contingency plan....the fact that two of the top guys missed basically the whole season simply cant be considered as anything that would happen under normal circumstances, no matter what the situation....

    as far as the kripy kremes goes....its hard to take one too serious when they equate such little value to a 3rd team all nba selection, allstar, and DPOY....you have to see how ridiculous this seems....you appear much more rational when discussing this teams weaknesses being perimeter shooti and inside posts presence, and maturity versus telling us ron has no value....

    for someone who uses the grading scale u use i find it a bit hypocritical to entertain such thoughts as this team being competitive without him or they would be very good with another legit sf.....if this team doesnt have artest it doesnt have one of the top 2 sfs in the league...and if doesnt have that it wont reach the finals-which in ur eyes is all that really matters....

    so based on that presumption, i would think u really need ron to find a way to really be a value to this team and coexist....cause thats almost assuredly the only way theyre gonna make the finals.....

  4. #29
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    I'd trade last year's Ron for this coming season Ron. And yes I do believe he is a changed person.

    this is a great great post....heard of pound for pound the best fighter????

    this is in the fewest words one of the best posts ever....

    do u guys have post of the year award here? this should be one...

  5. #30
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Eh, quit telling me what to think.

    I've wanted his butt off the Pacers since the day they traded for him; that ain't going to change and it has nothing to do with forgiveness. Its not that I don't have any confidence he can change; its that I'm 100% confident he won't change.

    He's always been part of the problem; the solution has always been to cast him off and re-work the team without him. Even without having a replacement, this team was good enough to lose to Detroit in six games again this season, so finding another SF to get them over the hump is not an impossible task. And yes, it might take a season or two for that to all come together. But that's still less time than "never". When Ron's career ends, I'm not even sure he'll be known as the "best player to never play in The Finals."

    There are plenty of 3rd-team all-NBA players that have not and will never win a championship. But none of them are anywhere near as disruptive as Ron.

    A player's value includes everything, not just thier on-court production. Yes, I exaggerate when I say I'd trade him for a bag of chips. Big deal.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  6. #31
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Jay, I can't help but notice your avatar. Chuck looks like he's going to rip the ball out of JO's hands if he doesn't pass it to him immidiately....

    2013 Pacers Digest NBA 2K13 Champion (Xbox 360)

  7. #32
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Eh, quit telling me what to think.

    I've wanted his butt off the Pacers since the day they traded for him
    hmmmm....well that certainly explains alot of things...not the least of which is the closemindedness on this subject....

    that ain't going to change and it has nothing to do with forgiveness.
    agreed...based on the above comment i would say stubborness or closemindedness


    Its not that I don't have any confidence he can change; its that I'm 100% confident he won't change.
    or 100% confident u wont allow for it??

    He's always been part of the problem; the solution has always been to cast him off and re-work the team without him.
    always....never....not real rational words...u might admit...though, thankfully theres ALWAYS more than one way to look at a situation...

    its become quite apparent you had made up ur mind about him before he even came here...

    is that disappointing...yea...a bit...see my fan vs. follower thread...but even beyond that....to say that a 22 year old is what he is and will never change is i dunno....u choose....

    no matter what words u choose to use.....theres not a 22 year old alive that doesnt change, no matter what the reasons....

    i mean look at u....u appear to be as stubborn as they come....and im sure uve changed a bit since u were 22

    P.S...please dont ban me....though maybe not obvious in this post...i still like ya and have tons of respect as well

  8. #33
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Well I wouldn't mind seeing Ron traded for just about anyone, really, but here are a few SF's I'd really like to have on the team:

    Bobby Simmons
    Joe Johnson
    Andre Igawhatsit


    That's all I can think of right now.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Eh, quit telling me what to think.
    Post of the year.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I've wanted his butt off the Pacers since the day they traded for him; that ain't going to change and it has nothing to do with forgiveness. Its not that I don't have any confidence he can change; its that I'm 100% confident he won't change.
    Well. I think this statement pretty well says it all about your feelings and it tells me Ron's last 2-3 years has absolutely no influence on your mindset.

    It also tells me what kind of a person you are and I really don't think I like what I see.

    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

  11. #36
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Ron's last 2-3 years have only confirmed my initial fears.

    Do I have to list the bazillion disruptive things he's done again?

    I used to say, with Ron its always 12 steps up and 15 steps back. It isn't how much progress he appears to make between disruptions, that's just fool's gold. Its that each subsequent disruption has been worse than the previous (meanwhile, there's another camp saying

    " "

    the whole time.)

    And as I've already told somebody else, sorry I'm so crabby today.

    Its been a stressful week at the office.

    I'm going to check out of here before I do enough damage that I make a come-from-behind victory in that other poll.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  12. #37
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Jay, I can't help but notice your avatar. Chuck looks like he's going to rip the ball out of JO's hands if he doesn't pass it to him immidiately....
    We're trying to make JO better at passing out of the double-team. And who better to pass it to than the Rifleman??
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  13. #38

    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    We're trying to make JO better at passing out of the double-team. And who better to pass it to than the Rifleman??
    Obviously he hasn't been teaching it very well....
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  14. #39
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    We're trying to make JO better at passing out of the double-team. And who better to pass it to than the Rifleman??

    the only thing that scares me about this concept is person being the one thats doing the teaching of the passing...

    i think i can count on my two hands the time chuck passed the ball when he was here....

    hell...maybe thats the problem.....maybe chuck has been working with him all along.....

    "ok, jo my theory always was if i had a shot take it"

    "and if i didnt have a shot, someone still has to shoot it, so hell, it might as well be me"

    JO..this is ur long time pacer fans talking to u....

    do u know where they coined the phrase "never met a shot he didnt like?"

    u got it....Chuck Person

    and remember my tall, rich, friend, hes not called the Rifleman because of his skill with a weapon...

    and yes...chuck was an underrated passer....you have to pass it more than ten times a season to be rated


    btw...i love chuck....few ever brought more excitement to a game than chuck...chuck, to me , could be someone u "love to hate"

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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    this is a great great post....heard of pound for pound the best fighter????

    this is in the fewest words one of the best posts ever....

    do u guys have post of the year award here? this should be one...
    Because RWB claims to be psychic?
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    Obviously he hasn't been teaching it very well....
    Yeah but if he loses some skin or maybe a fingernail or two when Chuck rips the ball away maybe he'll figure it out.

    No pain no gain.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  17. #42
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    the only thing that scares me about this concept is person being the one thats doing the teaching of the passing...

    i think i can count on my two hands the time chuck passed the ball when he was here....

    hell...maybe thats the problem.....maybe chuck has been working with him all along.....

    "ok, jo my theory always was if i had a shot take it"

    "and if i didnt have a shot, someone still has to shoot it, so hell, it might as well be me"

    JO..this is ur long time pacer fans talking to u....

    do u know where they coined the phrase "never met a shot he didnt like?"

    u got it....Chuck Person

    and remember my tall, rich, friend, hes not called the Rifleman because of his skill with a weapon...

    and yes...chuck was an underrated passer....you have to pass it more than ten times a season to be rated


    btw...i love chuck....few ever brought more excitement to a game than chuck...chuck, to me , could be someone u "love to hate"
    Funny how a guy that only passed ten times per season averaged 4.7 apg his last season with the Pacers.

    Funny how, when he got to Minnesota their beatwriter observed that Chuck was the only guy that would pass the ball to Luc Longley. Chuck said, (paraphrasing) "yeah, and in Indy, I was the only guy that would pass to Rik Smits." Check the tape, almost all of Micheal Williams' assists were to Reggie and Detlef. Det had some triple-doubles, but he'd also go for weeks without committing a pass.

    I watched Chuck, while playing for San Antonio, make a last-play-of-the-game entry boucepass from the timeline to D-Rob for a game-winning layup.

    You are seriously underestimating his passing ability. Just because Dick Versace only let Chuck stand at the line and shoot three's doesn't mean that's all he could do.

    For a guy who never met a shot he didn't like, he was quite willing to take his 19ppg career average to the bench and let Det start if it would've made the team better (but it didn't).
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  18. #43
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Funny how a guy that only passed ten times per season averaged 4.7 apg his last season with the Pacers.

    Funny how, when he got to Minnesota their beatwriter observed that Chuck was the only guy that would pass the ball to Luc Longley. Chuck said, (paraphrasing) "yeah, and in Indy, I was the only guy that would pass to Rik Smits." Check the tape, almost all of Micheal Williams' assists were to Reggie and Detlef. Det had some triple-doubles, but he'd also go for weeks without committing a pass.

    I watched Chuck, while playing for San Antonio, make a last-play-of-the-game entry boucepass from the timeline to D-Rob for a game-winning layup.

    You are seriously underestimating his passing ability. Just because Dick Versace only let Chuck stand at the line and shoot three's doesn't mean that's all he could do.

    For a guy who never met a shot he didn't like, he was quite willing to take his 19ppg career average to the bench and let Det start if it would've made the team better (but it didn't).
    i knew i shouldve put more smilies in that post....that post was surely in jest...i was hoping it was seen as an obvious attempt at humor....though i know ur feelings on chuck....maybe this should be a lesson for all of us....notice how quickly you came to his defense??? with a list of facts that seem very convincing in the face of derogatory comments?

    hmmmm....this is starting to sound vaguely familiar..

    again...i loved chuck....he was arguably the first significant piece of taking this franchise from the bottom tier of the nba to the very upper echelon....

    and again....that post was meant to be a lot of fun...granted at chucks expense....

  19. #44
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Jay, I can't help but notice your avatar. Chuck looks like he's going to rip the ball out of JO's hands if he doesn't pass it to him immidiately....
    I had a little different thought.....





    Don't ban me, Jay......
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  20. #45
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Jay, I'm sorry, I was wrong. Forgot all about that article.

    Although maybe we can put the "Artest wanted to retire" debate to rest then

  21. #46
    foretaz
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat
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    I had a little different thought.....





    Don't ban me, Jay......

    rat...thats a classic....i busted out laughing so hard my gf asked from the other room what was so funny....way way too funny...

  22. #47
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    i knew i shouldve put more smilies in that post....that post was surely in jest...i was hoping it was seen as an obvious attempt at humor....though i know ur feelings on chuck....maybe this should be a lesson for all of us....notice how quickly you came to his defense??? with a list of facts that seem very convincing in the face of derogatory comments?

    hmmmm....this is starting to sound vaguely familiar..

    again...i loved chuck....he was arguably the first significant piece of taking this franchise from the bottom tier of the nba to the very upper echelon....

    and again....that post was meant to be a lot of fun...granted at chucks expense....
    I would've thought you were joking if you stopped a little sooner. But you kept going and I just couldn't wait to start typing *that* reply.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  23. #48
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat
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    I had a little different thought.....





    Don't ban me, Jay......

    You're pushin' it, buddy.

    Although that's absolutely hilarious.






    Chuckburger.jpg. You're killing me.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  24. #49
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Hey, was the term "chucking the three" coined BEFORE or AFTER the Rifleman's tenure in the NBA?
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

  25. #50
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    Default Re: If Ron were inevitably going to be traded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Those are way overrated
    I never got them either. A warm glazed is kind of nice, but overall nothing special. But some people act like they're gourmet or something. Prices are anyway.

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