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Thread: The Myles Turner Era

  1. #51
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    AD did make the playoffs a couple of years ago and lost 0-4 to the Warriors in the first round. He played great though.
    I stand corrected, I totally forgot about that series.


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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I'm assuming, then, that by "all-star point guard" you mean something other than "point guard who has been named to an all-star team"?
    Peck wants an elite PG. Damian Lillard/John Wall type. Pacers haven't ever had a top tier pg, or even a pg that scared anybody since Mark Jackson. It's been almost 20 years since we have had a difference maker out of the pg position. Jeff Teague is good, but he is a whole level behind of the elites.
    Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    The problem with the idea of building around a single player is unless that player is dominant it is chasing fools gold. You'll never win a championship building around a really good player like Paul or hopefully Myles. To win a championship with those kinds of players as your best player you have to build a complete team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. You need to have smart players who are willing to sacrifice their own stats for the good of the team. You can build around Shaq, you can build around Jordan, and you can build around LeBron. You cannot build around Iverson. Sure Iverson might get you to the finals, but it's going to result in a loss 95% of the time.

    If we are looking at Myles being our best player we need to be looking at building a complete team, where he is just the best piece amongst many pieces. This is exactly the model that made the Hill, Lance, George, West, Hibbert team so good. They weren't a single player trying to be a dominant player that the team was built around. It was a team greater than the sum of it's parts.

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Durant is technically a "big" in every sense of the word now. He is a 7 footer and was playing both 4 and 5 this year. He is definitely surrounded by good pieces, but I can't think of anyone at any position who has had success over the last 3 or 4 season and has been surrounded by scrubs.

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Peck wants an elite PG. Damian Lillard/John Wall type. Pacers haven't ever had a top tier pg, or even a pg that scared anybody since Mark Jackson. It's been almost 20 years since we have had a difference maker out of the pg position. Jeff Teague is good, but he is a whole level behind of the elites.
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  9. #56
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Tinsley
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    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    I'm not advocating this just putting this out there.

    Let's say we get Crowder and Bradley from Celtics (plus 2 likely lottery picks) and re-sign Teague and sign Milsap (by buying out/stretch/trading Al and Monta)

    Teague
    Bradley
    Crowder
    Milsap
    Turner

    Thad, Lance, GRIII, Seraphin, Leaf, Christmas etc. on bench

    To me, that's a top 5 in East playoff team. And wouldn't your 2 best players be bigs? Then you still get youth in the draft while being competitive.

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    If Myles is going to be the number one option offensively, he's going to need to learn some type of offensive move.

    Right now he's basically a catch and shoot guy. But with the dearth of offensive talent around him, he won't get as easy of looks as he had last year.

    His stroke will help alleviate some of this, but if we want his shooting percentage to remain high, he's going to have to put in some major work this offseason.

    I have zero doubt's that he will put in the work though. Its just a matter of him having the confidence to execute those moves during the season
    The most important word in this great post is confidence. The single biggest difference I've seen thus far with Myles and PG is confidence. Paul presumes he's the best player on the floor and steps up his game when the going gets tough. And he did it early in his career. Myles is more tentative and shrinks during the playoffs thus far. It's time for Myles to show his nasty.


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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I'm not advocating this just putting this out there.

    Let's say we get Crowder and Bradley from Celtics (plus 2 likely lottery picks) and re-sign Teague and sign Milsap (by buying out/stretch/trading Al and Monta)

    Teague
    Bradley
    Crowder
    Milsap
    Turner

    Thad, Lance, GRIII, Seraphin, Leaf, Christmas etc. on bench

    To me, that's a top 5 in East playoff team. And wouldn't your 2 best players be bigs? Then you still get youth in the draft while being competitive.
    A lot of options if this Celtics deal goes down. We can be competitive or go total rebuild and deal both Crowder and Bradley for future 1sts and possibly end up with 6 1st round picks (including ours) the next couple years. I'd be happy to go either direction.

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I'm not advocating this just putting this out there.

    Let's say we get Crowder and Bradley from Celtics (plus 2 likely lottery picks) and re-sign Teague and sign Milsap (by buying out/stretch/trading Al and Monta)

    Teague
    Bradley
    Crowder
    Milsap
    Turner

    Thad, Lance, GRIII, Seraphin, Leaf, Christmas etc. on bench

    To me, that's a top 5 in East playoff team. And wouldn't your 2 best players be bigs? Then you still get youth in the draft while being competitive.

    Like the idea but remove Milsap too expensive at his age.
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Peck wants an elite PG. Damian Lillard/John Wall type. Pacers haven't ever had a top tier pg, or even a pg that scared anybody since Mark Jackson. It's been almost 20 years since we have had a difference maker out of the pg position. Jeff Teague is good, but he is a whole level behind of the elites.
    I still don't get the dissatisfaction that many have with Teague.

    What Elite PG can we get?

    He's a solid Starting PG....he's no John Wall, he's know Kyrie Irving or Curry....heck, he's not even a Kyle Lowry. It is true....we do not have an elite Starting PG. But guess what....about 2/3 of the NBA doesn't have one either.

    Unless we get an Elite PG back in a trade involving PG13.....I'm not suggesting that Teague the PG killer that other Elite Teams have.....but he's better than anything that we will be able to sign via Free Agency.

    One more thing to add.....I'm am reluctant to judge Teague's performance on the Pacers so far. Keep in mind.......Teague has to play on a Point Guard "unfriendly" Team like the Pacers next to another ball Dominant Wing like PG13....yet he put up as good if not slightly better #s than in previous years. Add in that he has given NO indications that he actually wants to leave Indy ( as opposed to someone else ) and was happy when he was traded to Indy......which is important to KP and the Pacers.

    For all we know.....what we see of Teague maybe the best that we can expect.....but if we are truly headed towards "Re-Tooling" this Team.......it only makes sense to hitch the wagon to Teague as the continued Starting PG without PG13 at the helm while taking advantage of Teague's Bird's Rights to re-sign him without eating up any Salary Cap Space that we have.
    Last edited by CableKC; 06-26-2017 at 06:33 PM.
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Edit: I really can't tell you the last team that successfully built around a big man in recent memory
    If by success you mean championship, then Dallas 2011.

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    The most important word in this great post is confidence. The single biggest difference I've seen thus far with Myles and PG is confidence. Paul presumes he's the best player on the floor and steps up his game when the going gets tough. And he did it early in his career. Myles is more tentative and shrinks during the playoffs thus far. It's time for Myles to show his nasty.


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    You could see Paul's confidence when he guarded the MVP (D.Rose) in the playoffs as a rookie. Paul gets up for big games and big matchups. I hope we can get the same from Myles. He will certainly get his chance this season
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 06-26-2017 at 09:39 PM.

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    If by success you mean championship, then Dallas 2011.
    I didn't even necessarily mean championship, just a contending team. But yeah, good point.

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    It's a shame Paul George decided to tell Indiana "**** you" because him and a prime Myles Turner would have been amazing together.

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Tinsley
    Only for his rookie season. Otherwise, he was pretty frustrating.

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    If by success you mean championship, then Dallas 2011.
    And that damn-near took 15+ years in the making to accomplish!

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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    You could ser Paul's confidence when he guarded the MVP (D.Rose) in the playoffs as a rookie. Paul gets up for big games and big matchups. I hope we can get the same from Myles. He will certainly get his chance this season
    Yep! That playoff series vs. Chicago was exactly what I was referring to. We knew then that we might have something special with him. It looked almost effortless to him, and he acted as if it was no big deal.

    For Myles, outside of a few regular season games where he's gone HAM, not so much. He's almost invisible for both playoff series thus far.

  27. #69
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    I understand the trend is currently wings win rings, but that's not always going to be the case. The league goes through cycles. It feels like people have short memories, and that since wings have won the most recent titles, that concept is going to be locked for the foreseeable future. The reality is, bigs never went anywhere when it came to making appearances in the Finals. From '99 to 2007, every single one of those Finals featured a big man in either Tim Duncan or Shaq --- 9 seasons, and they won 8 of them. The Pistons won the other. Then after that, you had the Celtics in '08 that had the Big 3, but still featured a great big man in KG. In 2011, Dirk got his. The Spurs got to the Finals in 2013 behind Duncan again, but lost. In 2014, Kawhi got all the glory, but Timmy was still backboning that team. That wasn't that long ago, folks. Up until 3 years ago, big-man anchored teams were appearing in and/or winning the whole thing. People act like it's a dinosaur way of playing, but I personally believe it's less to do with how the game is changing and more to do with just the kids coming out of college. Before Tim/Shaq took over, it was the Jordan Show, and everyone thought big men were dinosaurs. Then Jordan retired, Tim/Shaq took over for a long time... then we lost Tim and Shaq, Dirk and KG, and there was no replacements for bigs, here comes LeBron and Kobe and GS. It's just who's good right now. The reality is, these guys will slow down, the league will begin to figure out how to defend on the perimeter again and all these 3-point zerg-teams who currently live by the 3 will begin to die by the 3, and with no inside presence will start to struggle again against these big guys inside that they can't stop. It's an ever-swaying pendulum. Once this GS and LeBron era wears off, it's all wide open again.

    The 2015 class I think may have re-injected some of that big-man action into the league. That class that Turner came in with was just very talented, and I think once all those bigs grow up, this "wing"-dominated league is going to see a shift. Guys like KAT, Embiid, Porzingas and Turner will leave a mark on this league all said and done. KAT is already a big guy who is the #1 on his team and they are a tough out already even tho he's still a baby. Think about that -- Kat is 21, and he threw up 25/12/3 last year on 55% shooting. Try and tell me the Wolves won't be a force in the coming years. Conversely, a lot of teams have banked on these "can't miss" guards and wings in recent drafts that frankly haven't quite lived up to the billing ... Andrew Wiggins was once called a once-in-a-generation talent. DRussell, or Mudiay, or Kris Dunn, all of these guys came in with lots of hope and just haven't shown to be truly that. But these bigs coming in, they impress me. KAT, Embiid (when healthy), Porzingis have all flashed early, and Turner is right there with them.

    I feel like Turner is likely the late-bloomer of the KAT/Embiid/Porz group, so even though you might see a skinny kid who struggles to win post matchups at age 20, in a 1-2-3 years, that skinny kid is going to fill out and muscle up and he's going to work on his post offense and defense, and by age 23-24, he's going to be straight beasting on teams. I think people watch him now and think that's it for him, but like KAT, he's still practically a baby in this league. To me, you can't get sold on trends; you have to go with talent when you see it/get it, and then put the system around it to maximize the effectiveness.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 06-26-2017 at 11:59 PM.
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  29. #70
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    You make a lot of good points, but typically you need a special player to "change the winds" so to speak in terms of the cycle of the league.

    KAT has a chance at being that type of guy, but I think he falls short. AD has a great chance but needs to stay healthy. Myles isn't even in that conversation.

    I do agree though, eventually there will be a big that turns the tide back toward the frontcourt positions a bit. At least that's what league history would suggest

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  31. #71
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    You make a lot of good points, but typically you need a special player to "change the winds" so to speak in terms of the cycle of the league.

    KAT has a chance at being that type of guy, but I think he falls short. AD has a great chance but needs to stay healthy. Myles isn't even in that conversation.

    I do agree though, eventually there will be a big that turns the tide back toward the frontcourt positions a bit. At least that's what league history would suggest
    A healthy Embiid would be that player. In the few games I saw him play he was just worlds away better than any big man I've seen since a young Shaq and Duncan.


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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Turner is a good piece to have if you have the right complimentary big man to cover his fear of contact. I think the next era of Pacer basketball will come with a player who we don't even have on the roster yet, until that happens we'll likely be in no mans land for a few years.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

  34. #73
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Think Myles will end up a better, mobile & rim protecting version of Rik Smits. Frustrating with the rebounding production & individual post defense yet very versatile and efficient offensively. Definitely look for his post game to mature nicely over the next 2-3 years (just like Rik) and for his range to extend out past the arc which Rik never had.

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  36. #74
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Default Re: The Myles Turner Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I understand the trend is currently wings win rings, but that's not always going to be the case. The league goes through cycles. It feels like people have short memories, and that since wings have won the most recent titles, that concept is going to be locked for the foreseeable future. The reality is, bigs never went anywhere when it came to making appearances in the Finals. From '99 to 2007, every single one of those Finals featured a big man in either Tim Duncan or Shaq --- 9 seasons, and they won 8 of them. The Pistons won the other. Then after that, you had the Celtics in '08 that had the Big 3, but still featured a great big man in KG. In 2011, Dirk got his. The Spurs got to the Finals in 2013 behind Duncan again, but lost. In 2014, Kawhi got all the glory, but Timmy was still backboning that team. That wasn't that long ago, folks. Up until 3 years ago, big-man anchored teams were appearing in and/or winning the whole thing. People act like it's a dinosaur way of playing, but I personally believe it's less to do with how the game is changing and more to do with just the kids coming out of college. Before Tim/Shaq took over, it was the Jordan Show, and everyone thought big men were dinosaurs. Then Jordan retired, Tim/Shaq took over for a long time... then we lost Tim and Shaq, Dirk and KG, and there was no replacements for bigs, here comes LeBron and Kobe and GS. It's just who's good right now. The reality is, these guys will slow down, the league will begin to figure out how to defend on the perimeter again and all these 3-point zerg-teams who currently live by the 3 will begin to die by the 3, and with no inside presence will start to struggle again against these big guys inside that they can't stop. It's an ever-swaying pendulum. Once this GS and LeBron era wears off, it's all wide open again.

    The 2015 class I think may have re-injected some of that big-man action into the league. That class that Turner came in with was just very talented, and I think once all those bigs grow up, this "wing"-dominated league is going to see a shift. Guys like KAT, Embiid, Porzingas and Turner will leave a mark on this league all said and done. KAT is already a big guy who is the #1 on his team and they are a tough out already even tho he's still a baby. Think about that -- Kat is 21, and he threw up 25/12/3 last year on 55% shooting. Try and tell me the Wolves won't be a force in the coming years. Conversely, a lot of teams have banked on these "can't miss" guards and wings in recent drafts that frankly haven't quite lived up to the billing ... Andrew Wiggins was once called a once-in-a-generation talent. DRussell, or Mudiay, or Kris Dunn, all of these guys came in with lots of hope and just haven't shown to be truly that. But these bigs coming in, they impress me. KAT, Embiid (when healthy), Porzingis have all flashed early, and Turner is right there with them.

    I feel like Turner is likely the late-bloomer of the KAT/Embiid/Porz group, so even though you might see a skinny kid who struggles to win post matchups at age 20, in a 1-2-3 years, that skinny kid is going to fill out and muscle up and he's going to work on his post offense and defense, and by age 23-24, he's going to be straight beasting on teams. I think people watch him now and think that's it for him, but like KAT, he's still practically a baby in this league. To me, you can't get sold on trends; you have to go with talent when you see it/get it, and then put the system around it to maximize the effectiveness.
    If Myles is our franchise player, we will suck. Can't build around a big when he cannot rebound
    Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

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