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Thread: A question for Skaut_Ech...

  1. #26
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    May have some of the same characteristics, but Mike is so far off the spectrum it's laughable.
    Some people have to stick with their black and white, everything goes in its own neat little box view of the world.

  2. #27
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    And for the record, I've been in the "dark side" camp concerning Artest for over a year now, and I think this analogy beyond surface comparison is absurd.

  3. #28
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    So Harmonica, I think I've seen you on both sides of the "Can Ron change?" discussion lately.

    Or am I misreading?
    No, you're not. My feelings about Ron (as a player—I hate that I have to qualify that because of all the people who get caught up with semantics here) have been all over the place.

  4. #29
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Some people have to stick with their black and white, everything goes in its own neat little box view of the world.
    That's me alright. Please note the irony in your statement.

  5. #30
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    Thank you! Sheesh!!

    Folks, are you not getting it. I wasn't making a comparision to put down Ron, but to show how maybe people can't change.
    And that's perfectly valid. It's just that things quickly came across (not really from you) that this was being taken much further than that, hence some of our responses.

    If that's all that was meant, no harm done.

  6. #31
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    So because Mike didn't change, neither will Ron?

    Let's just lock up every single person with those characteristics then. Mike didn't change, therefore no one that has any of his qualities can.
    Please. Don't waste your keystrokes on him. Not only does he not get my point, he's now misquoting. All Harmonica said was that Ron has shown an inability to change to this point, which is what I said too. Nothing more.

    Are you so fired up to worship at the altar of Ron that you can't take a minute to read and digest a post, since? Settle down. Man!

  7. #32
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    And for the record, I've been in the "dark side" camp concerning Artest for over a year now, and I think this analogy beyond surface comparison is absurd.
    Scientists, doctors, psychologists. etc. make clinical comparisons all the time. And there's no denying that both Ron and Mike suffer from impulse control disorders.

  8. #33
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    Thank you! Sheesh!!

    Folks, are you not getting it. I wasn't making a comparision to put down Ron, but to show how maybe people can't change.


    I wasn't responding to your post, it was BP's I was responding to.

  9. #34
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    Please. Don't waste your keystrokes on him. Not only does he not get my point, he's now misquoting. All Harmonica said was that Ron has shown an inability to change to this point, which is what I said too. Nothing more.

    Are you so fired up to worship at the altar of Ron that you can't take a minute to read and digest a post, since? Settle down. Man!

    Yes, I'm bowing at his humble name.

    This is about the 5th or 6th time now that I'm going on the record with this:

    I've decided to give Ron ONE more chance. Not an infinite number, but ONE. I might just have to use that at as my sig. I've said it before, I hate how people are labeled Ron haters, or Ron apologists. There is a middle ground, which I fall in.

    To get back to the actual topic. By using Mike, that's saying because he didn't change Ron won't either. If you just think that Ron is in capable of changing, that's fine by me, but using one person as a guide for another isn't logical.

  10. #35
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I wasn't responding to your post, it was BP's I was responding to.
    Which one?

  11. #36
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Scientists, doctors, psychologists. etc. make clinical comparisons all the time. And there's no denying that both Ron and Mike suffer from impulse control disorders.
    Sure they both do. But when you started making a list, and their troubles within and outside of their respective sports made your cut, that suggested you were comparing them more deeply, and Tyson is far, far worse than Ron.

  12. #37
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Is there an example in sports of someone with impulse control problems getting better down the line? I mean really better, not "he only does it half the time now".

  13. #38
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    To get back to the actual topic. By using Mike, that's saying because he didn't change Ron won't either. If you just think that Ron is in capable of changing, that's fine by me, but using one person as a guide for another isn't logical.
    And that's your problem. You've focused in on one aspect, Mike Tyson, and you won't let it go.

    My decision isn't based on Tyson. I said Tyson sparked it.

    You know when you see someone on the street and he may faintly resemble a friend of yours, and then it makes you think of your actual friend?

    Same kind of deal. Tyson, due to his upbringing and repeated infractions in his sport has quite a few similarities to Ron. There was a resemblance. Nothing more.

    I'll stop there because (to sound totally condescending), you don't seem to grasp more than one concept in a post. Now re-read what was said, and quit focusing on Tyson to the exclusion of everything else that was said. I think you'll come away with a different stance.

  14. #39
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Is there an example in sports of someone with impulse control problems getting better down the line? I mean really better, not "he only does it half the time now".

    Alonzo Mourning and Kenyan Martin are two prime examples

  15. #40
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Which one?

    This part is what did it. Well the whole post did it, but this part put me over the top


    "Both have a laundry list of incidents outside of their respective sports".

  16. #41
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    And that's your problem. You've focused in on one aspect, Mike Tyson, and you won't let it go.

    My decision isn't based on Tyson. I said Tyson sparked it.

    You know when you see someone on the street and he may faintly resemble a friend of yours, and then it makes you think of your actual friend?

    Same kind of deal. Tyson, due to his upbringing and repeated infractions in his sport has quite a few similarities to Ron. There was a resemblance. Nothing more.

    I'll stop there because (to sound totally condescending), you don't seem to grasp more than one concept in a post. Now re-read what was said, and quit focusing on Tyson to the exclusion of everything else that was said. I think you'll come away with a different stance.
    Saying that tyson sparked the thought process is one thing, I'll agree to that. But to be fair, I didn't go after that part. BP took your post and turned it into an analogy, and that's where my problem with it begins.

    To wonder, "Is Ron going to end up like X?" is one thing. To say X ended up this way, so Ron is too, is a TOTALLY different ballpark. I'm grasping the concept, you're just trying to play both fields the same, when in fact they're not.

    Again, alright with you saying watching Tyson reminds you of Ron, and made you think is Ron going to change. Problem with saying Mike didn't change, so therefore neither will Ron. You can't judge one person, with another person's actions.

  17. #42
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Well Iron Mike's list could be greatly shortened if you combined some of the notations. IE one note for the incident and another for the subsequent lawsuit....make it one incident not two.

    However, it can also be argued that MT is alot older and had much more time to have these incidents and we need to look at # of incidents at same timepoints in their lives.....if we were doing a direct comparison. Big dif tho, until the brawl, Ron's tantrums were just that, tantrums. Never directed at any individual (Flagrant fouls not-withstanding). Tysons were ALL assault related. BUT....and this is the kicker, in spite of both peoples professed remoarse, there were other incidents.

    I've always said Ron is like the little kid that tests his parents. He finds out where one limit exists and immediately starts pushing in another direction to see where the limit lies there. He never goes back to the first becasue he knows the limit there, but it almost becomes a game with them trying to find the limit.

    Was it Since86 that said he was willing to give him one more chance? I can respect that if he realizes that for some of us that one more chance occured a couple of incidents ago. So, some have a little more tolerance than others.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

  18. #43
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    Was it Since86 that said he was willing to give him one more chance? I can respect that if he realizes that for some of us that one more chance occured a couple of incidents ago. So, some have a little more tolerance than others.
    I completely understand. My thing behind it is, if you're going to use emotion, say it's emotion. If you're going to use evidence, atleast use credible one.

  19. #44
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    You guys are all missing the point........

    You can dismiss every one of Tyson's incidents because he was World Champion, baby! Winning championships is the only thing that matters!

    Until Ron starts winning titles he's much worse than Iron Mike.......
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  20. #45
    Member Vicious Tyrant's Avatar
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Does it make a difference that Ron plays a team sport and Tyson boxed solo? Do teammates influence each other enough to make that a significant issue here?
    "If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you." - Jack Handy

  21. #46
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat
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    You guys are all missing the point........

    You can dismiss every one of Tyson's incidents because he was World Champion, baby! Winning championships is the only thing that matters!

    Until Ron starts winning titles he's much worse than Iron Mike.......

    Only if the NBA was made up of scrubs.(I mean in their respective field of couse. I'd never tell them they were scrubs face to face.)

    Of couse I'd hate to see what I'd do if the Pacers lost to the NBA equivalent of Buster Douglass.

  22. #47
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    This part is what did it. Well the whole post did it, but this part put me over the top


    "Both have a laundry list of incidents outside of their respective sports".
    I was simply responding in the same over-the-top manner Since86 did when he chose to respond to my post by listing the most egregious things Mike Tyson has done versus considering what both Skaut and I were actually saying.

  23. #48
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Alonzo Mourning and Kenyan Martin are two prime examples
    Comparing Ron to Alonzo or Kenyan is utter nonsense!

  24. #49
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    I was simply responding in the same over-the-top manner Since86 did when he chose to list the most egregious things Mike Tyson has done versus looking at what Skaut was really saying.

    How many times must I say it? I took the stance AFTER you called it an analogy.

    To be completely honest, I didn't read Skaut's answer until after you put in that line.

    The first list I compiled, the one that you responded too, was hardly tip of the iceberg. Those were things that I thought of right off the top of my head. I find it funny that showing the difference between each person's actions is now "over-the-top."

  25. #50
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    Default Re: A question for Skaut_Ech...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    I've decided to give Ron ONE more chance. Not an infinite number, but ONE. I might just have to use that at as my sig. I've said it before, I hate how people are labeled Ron haters, or Ron apologists. There is a middle ground, which I fall in.
    Thank you sir for putting this out there. As Geez stated he is already done and I can respect that. There are those who believe he has changed. ANY additional incident off the court of a criminal nature or ANY incident on the court considered out of the norm for basketball and I say cut him. Ron Artest has served his basketball punishment. Soon he will face a real court and abide by that decision. I say lessons have been learned.

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