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Thread: Welcome TJ Leaf!

  1. #226
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I am curious as to why. As far as I am aware he never lived in Indiana. I wouldn't have expected Indiana to be at the top of the list.
    I believe his parents are from here and he still has family here, his dad played ball here.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  2. #227

    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Knowing he wanted to be here just makes me want to root for him even more. Maybe we don't have the same problem the last dude from LA we had.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 06-25-2017 at 01:25 AM.

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  4. #228
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    TJ has a solid shot to make All-Rookie team... He is offenisively solid player in a bad team = gets enuff minutes, gets enuff shots and All-Rookie team is very much about traditional box score stats.

    However, when you are neither a capable nor interested defender you will never become a winning player in NBA. Defense is much, much, much more important to success than offense. In a p-n-r era, you only need max. two players capable of creating score opportunities on the court - rest can be spot-up shooters. However, you need all five to be capable of PREVENTING scoring. Leaf is absolute B.S. in that regard. I could forgive lacking techniques and physique as those can be developed. But I have never seen this bad of attitude to be corrected.

    Horrible, horrible, horrible pick...

  5. #229
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    espn insider ranked all teams in terms of draft.

    can someone post?

  6. #230
    Your New Starting PG BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    TJ has a solid shot to make All-Rookie team... He is offenisively solid player in a bad team = gets enuff minutes, gets enuff shots and All-Rookie team is very much about traditional box score stats.

    However, when you are neither a capable nor interested defender you will never become a winning player in NBA. Defense is much, much, much more important to success than offense. In a p-n-r era, you only need max. two players capable of creating score opportunities on the court - rest can be spot-up shooters. However, you need all five to be capable of PREVENTING scoring. Leaf is absolute B.S. in that regard. I could forgive lacking techniques and physique as those can be developed. But I have never seen this bad of attitude to be corrected.

    Horrible, horrible, horrible pick...
    Give him a ohance.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    He seems athletic enough to become at least passable at defense, he's not Murphy-level stiff.

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  10. #232
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    TJ has a solid shot to make All-Rookie team... He is offenisively solid player in a bad team = gets enuff minutes, gets enuff shots and All-Rookie team is very much about traditional box score stats.

    However, when you are neither a capable nor interested defender you will never become a winning player in NBA. Defense is much, much, much more important to success than offense. In a p-n-r era, you only need max. two players capable of creating score opportunities on the court - rest can be spot-up shooters. However, you need all five to be capable of PREVENTING scoring. Leaf is absolute B.S. in that regard. I could forgive lacking techniques and physique as those can be developed. But I have never seen this bad of attitude to be corrected.

    Horrible, horrible, horrible pick...
    Geez I wasn't aware you knew Leaf like that
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  12. #233
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    The murphy comparison is just the color

    His bounce offensively is like of kirilenko

  13. #234
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!



    Here's film of Leaf and Anigbogu vs Utah and Kyle Kuzma that I edited. Ike is miles ahead of Leaf in terms of P&R defense. He just has great instincts on where to be and how to contain penetration. UCLA played a lot of zone this game and you could tell Leaf was uncomfortable. Ike had his hands up and rotated to the right spots on the floor. However, Ike tries to block shots when theres not really a chance to block them which takes him out of position to rebound. He also lands on one foot when he jumps at times which puts unnecessary stress on his knees. Leaf crossed his feet a lot instead of sliding with Kuzma. Leaf did not show any physicality this game save for an aggressive box out on a free throw miss.

    I'll breakdown every one of their games I can find and watch more closely how they improve over their lone college season.
    Last edited by Pacersalltheway10; 06-25-2017 at 06:25 PM.

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  15. #235
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Yes, he's talented offensively. I don't understand the Ryan Anderson comparison as their games are quite different. I've been trying to think of a great comparison all morning but haven't come up with one yet
    My NBA comparison for T.J. Leaf is Keith Van Horn.

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  17. #236

    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Oh wow, I hadn't thought about that, but that might be as spot on as possible.

  18. #237
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wizard View Post
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    My NBA comparison for T.J. Leaf is Keith Van Horn.
    I actually thought that, also, it's a very good comparison. I also still stand by my Bill Laimbeer/Toni Kukoc comparison, at least offensively. Go watch some highlights, you'll see some familiar stuff. On the break and on the perimeter, he does some Kukoc stuff, and in the paint, around the rim, he looks like Laimbeer.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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  20. #238
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wizard View Post
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    My NBA comparison for T.J. Leaf is Keith Van Horn.
    Can we get him the tall socks?
    It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

  21. #239
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    The Van Horn comparison is really good, frankly I forgot all about that guy!

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    This might sound stupid.. But what about this lineup..?

    Lance
    Gr3
    Leaf
    Thad
    Myles.

    You put GR3 on the better offensive player while playing defense. Lance is a meh defender but he'll have length at the position. That mean that leaf would essentially be Monta on defense.
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  23. #241

    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardshock View Post
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    This might sound stupid.. But what about this lineup..?

    Lance
    Gr3
    Leaf
    Thad
    Myles.

    You put GR3 on the better offensive player while playing defense. Lance is a meh defender but he'll have length at the position. That mean that leaf would essentially be Monta on defense.
    I was wondering about a version of this while listening to a review of Ike Anigbogu. Yes, he may be several years away from full development, but if ... IF ... he can make quick progress on the defensive end, I'll hope to see him get some minutes by year's end. I therefore was (briefly) daydreaming about a "big" lineup of Lance, GRIII, TJ, Myles & Ike. That would fulfill KP's wish for size at every position. Toughness will remain a work in progress.


    "I think if he is and we pass on Leaf we'd be some dumb mother ****ers."

    - Larry Bird to Kevin Pritchard before their pick on Draft Day

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  25. #242
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardshock View Post
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    This might sound stupid.. But what about this lineup..?

    Lance
    Gr3
    Leaf
    Thad
    Myles.

    You put GR3 on the better offensive player while playing defense. Lance is a meh defender but he'll have length at the position. That mean that leaf would essentially be Monta on defense.
    Yeah, I don't know who Leaf guards, too weak, soft, uninterested, and unaggressive to guard pretty much any position, and his footwork and effort on the defensive end suck. We could put him against another team's worst player and that player would put up 20 points on him, easily, haha.
    Why so SERIOUS

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  27. #243
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardshock View Post
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    This might sound stupid.. But what about this lineup..?

    Lance
    Gr3
    Leaf
    Thad
    Myles.

    You put GR3 on the better offensive player while playing defense. Lance is a meh defender but he'll have length at the position. That mean that leaf would essentially be Monta on defense.
    Lance, GRIII, Thad, and Myles are all capable defenders. There'd be a lot to switch and cover against LeBron, that's for sure. If TJ has the speed to keep up with SFs, then sure, let's try it. I have my doubts, but if you're talking about this being a potential starting lineup, there's likely not a surplus of talent on your roster, so winning now takes a backseat to developing young talent.

    As DrFife says, if Ike comes along, a Leaf/Ike/Myles combo in the front-court would be something to see. He and I talked on Draft night about taking your lumps early on with the bigs since they take longer to develop, and then swinging for the fences with a dynamic wing as we accumulate high draft picks in the future, and/or cap space. If you line up the timeline properly, Ike and TJ become solid rotational player or starters, Myles enters his prime and we extend him into his second contract, and the rest of the roster is flexible enough to draft or sign a potentially elite guard or small forward, and we're ready to compete as the Cavs/Warriors dynasties draw to a close.
    It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

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  29. #244
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Leaf may well be the WORST defender in whole NBA next season. When he is in - it is a license to score for opponent...

    ...and it is not like we wil have a single (if PG departs) net-positive defender elsewhere in a line-up either. Myles can block some shots, but is woeful against physicality. Thad will be looked favorably for half a season due to his effort vs Lebron in play-offs, but is inconsistent in the role and only good against bigger small forwards really.

    Lance is not that band one-on-one, but his concentration span is disastrous off-ball.

    Teague is a turnstile with an occasional steal. The Fit (GRIII) is passable, but not specialist good. Xmas (will he be back?) is all-effort, but foul-prone.

    Ike has promise, but he is barely out of teens. Shouldn't expect too much out of him before year 2020.

    AlJeff & Monta are a great pair or defensive role models for Leaf . They must be ecstatic for a fact that there will be even worse sieve in a line-up from here on...


    This line-up is geared for giving up 120-130 points night after night.

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  31. #245

    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    This line-up is geared for giving up 120-130 points night after night.
    Just as long as we score 131!

    I remember Lance's defense being disparaged when he was a rookie, and he since has acquired a reputation as a competent defender. (I'm tepid on this evaluation.) TJ's too bright, too athletic, too ... using Cordobes's beautiful term, souplesse ... to not become competent on defense. Especially with the incomparable Dan Burke on our staff, right?


    "I think if he is and we pass on Leaf we'd be some dumb mother ****ers."

    - Larry Bird to Kevin Pritchard before their pick on Draft Day

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  33. #246
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    Leaf may well be the WORST defender in whole NBA next season. When he is in - it is a license to score for opponent...

    ...and it is not like we wil have a single (if PG departs) net-positive defender elsewhere in a line-up either. Myles can block some shots, but is woeful against physicality. Thad will be looked favorably for half a season due to his effort vs Lebron in play-offs, but is inconsistent in the role and only good against bigger small forwards really.

    Lance is not that band one-on-one, but his concentration span is disastrous off-ball.

    Teague is a turnstile with an occasional steal. The Fit (GRIII) is passable, but not specialist good. Xmas (will he be back?) is all-effort, but foul-prone.

    Ike has promise, but he is barely out of teens. Shouldn't expect too much out of him before year 2020.

    AlJeff & Monta are a great pair or defensive role models for Leaf . They must be ecstatic for a fact that there will be even worse sieve in a line-up from here on...


    This line-up is geared for giving up 120-130 points night after night.

    Will we try zone defense? With a bunch of poor one on one defenders, we might try something different. If we do, we could see Niang get some minutes.

  34. #247
    Member sav's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardshock View Post
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    This might sound stupid.. But what about this lineup..?

    Lance
    Gr3
    Leaf
    Thad
    Myles.

    You put GR3 on the better offensive player while playing defense. Lance is a meh defender but he'll have length at the position. That mean that leaf would essentially be Monta on defense.
    I don't think Leaf has a chance to consistently guard 3's. He'll be a stretch 4 next season, probably coming off the bench.

    We still need to see what we get for PG before we can look at a potential starting lineup.

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  36. #248
    Whoo...What a year.. Guardshock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    I don't think Leaf has a chance to consistently guard 3's. He'll be a stretch 4 next season, probably coming off the bench.

    We still need to see what we get for PG before we can look at a potential starting lineup.
    And CJ as a SG didn't have a chance at guarding PF's. You hide your worst defender on their worst offensive option. Like we OFTEN did with Monta. Often I even saw Monta on the PF in transition. I guess I don't see the issue when we have GR3 who can adequately guard SF's and SG's. Thad is an above average defender to most PFs. And if they go big, it's not like we won't counter.
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  37. #249
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardshock View Post
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    And CJ as a SG didn't have a chance at guarding PF's. You hide your worst defender on their worst offensive option. Like we OFTEN did with Monta. Often I even saw Monta on the PF in transition. I guess I don't see the issue when we have GR3 who can adequately guard SF's and SG's. Thad is an above average defender to most PFs. And if they go big, it's not like we won't counter.
    Its different when you have Mahinmi, Hill and PG in the lineup.

    If GRIII is your best perimeter defender, then you're going to give up a lot of points.

    We had most of the guys you're talking about last year and was not good defensively. Now substitute Paul George for TJ Leaf...

  38. #250
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    TJ needs to go to Fort Wayne until 2018. He can learn the physicality of the game and get on the court. No way does he play more than 14 mpg until he responds better on the defensive end.

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