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Thread: Welcome TJ Leaf!

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Say what you will about Leaf, and i'm not saying he's a bruiser, but he's a tough guy who will at they very least try to battle down low.

    And with Paul saying he wants out, an important thing that KP said in his press conference was that Leaf's agent made it very clear he wanted to be drafted by Indiana.
    I'm watching his DX Weaknesses video and re-reading TBird's analysis and both mentions that he's not very strong. He may have some effort and his length may help....but finishing with contact isn't his strong suit. Also...it looks like we are back to having Players that aren't good ball screeners.

    Given that we have 2 floor spacers in our Front court.....how does that translate into our offense for the rest of the Players on the floor? I would get the sense that penetrators and dishers like Lance and Monta may benefit with more open driving lanes?
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    With TJ and Ike.....it looks like they will greatly benefit from having someone create offense for the both of them. Playing with the best passer in college helps a lot.
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    People knocked Myles Turner pick on draft night and he was a great pick. TJ Leaf is a better athlete than most realize, great range on his jumper definite NBA range on it, has the stretch four range we didn't have last season from that position. I've almost come to the opinion if the voice of the board in draft night dislikes the pick I love when they are proven wrong.

    OG Anunoby is still not healthy and may not be healthy till December or so. I like OG but early last season at IU he showed little improvement from his freshman year. His game is a defensive player with limited developed offensive game. IF he loses quickness and explosiveness after the knee injury his upside goes down greatly.

    Will be interesting to see how Leaf and OG compare after a couple season. The Pacers needed shooting something Leaf was one of the best at in this draft. Leaf isn't very strong now but he can add muscle he is barely 20 years old. At least in college he was a good rebounder so I have hopes in that area too.
    Last edited by diamonddave00; 06-23-2017 at 02:37 AM.

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  5. #79

    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I'm watching his DX Weaknesses video and re-reading TBird's analysis and both mentions that he's not very strong. He may have some effort and his length may help....but finishing with contact isn't his strong suit. Also...it looks like we are back to having Players that aren't good ball screeners.

    Given that we have 2 floor spacers in our Front court.....how does that translate into our offense for the rest of the Players on the floor? I would get the sense that penetrators and dishers like Lance and Monta may benefit with more open driving lanes?
    It will definitely help Lance a lot, his best trait is his ability to get into the paint and the defense shouldn't be able to sag off Turner or Leaf. But while Leaf can spread the floor, he has a pretty diverse offensive game.

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    He isn't horrible, but his defense needs work, he does seem like a tough kid that has a decent offensive game, he scores in some weird ways and will probably **** some defenders off when he hits some ridiculous and ones.

    I still would have went with OG, for potential, and for fit, and for defense, but we will see how this goes, I guess this means Turner is a center fulltime? maybe?

    I just wonder if he will be good paired next to Michael Porter or Luka Doncic!
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    He isn't horrible, but his defense needs work, he does seem like a tough kid that has a decent offensive game, he scores in some weird ways and will probably **** some defenders off when he hits some ridiculous and ones.

    I still would have went with OG, for potential, and for fit, and for defense, but we will see how this goes, I guess this means Turner is a center fulltime? maybe?

    I just wonder if he will be good paired next to Michael Porter or Luka Doncic!
    guarantee a ton of teams took OG off their board because of medicals

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    He isn't horrible, but his defense needs work, he does seem like a tough kid that has a decent offensive game, he scores in some weird ways and will probably **** some defenders off when he hits some ridiculous and ones.

    I still would have went with OG, for potential, and for fit, and for defense, but we will see how this goes, I guess this means Turner is a center fulltime? maybe?

    I just wonder if he will be good paired next to Michael Porter or Luka Doncic!
    In Nate's Press Conference....he said that when both TJ and Myles is on the floor.....TJ is the 4 and Myles is the 5. Given that both are floor spreaders on the offensive end...not sure what that will mean. Given that it looks like the defense will have to help him a lot......is Myles and the rest of the defense will have to help cover his defensive concerns and limitations.
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Sigh and deny all you want, but the hate and stereotypes white Americans face in the NBA and basketball in general are real. I recommend this article and quote from Chandler Parsons. It's very obvious at times with any white American that has played here. Maybe it is not all about skin tone because Euro players aren't viewed the same, but the stereotypes are real. I wonder how many games people commenting actually watched and actually remember. You all must live and breathe basketball 24/7 and have outstanding memories and also be psychic to know for sure the trajectory of a rookie and who exactly he plays like. I mean no one can ever get quicker or stronger with modern million dollar training or anything I guess.

    "Parsons: Being white in the NBA, there are a lot of stereotypes. Itís almost like a joking thing among guys in the league about the stereotypes, whether itís music or food or the way we dress. Itís just stereotypes that are kind of like an ongoing thing that goes on in the NBA Ö

    Thereís stuff where people call me, Ďwhite boy,í or things like that. Same thing with stereotypes. Obviously, Iím a shooter because Iím white or Iím slow and less athletic because Iím white. But not hate. When I dunk on somebody, itíll be like, ĎOh, Chandler Parsons is deceptively athletic.í Why wouldnít I just be athletic?Ē"

    https://theundefeated.com/features/w...n-nba-players/
    I'm not trying to say that stereotypes don't exist. They certainly exist and they are usually far more negative than "white men can't jump". What I'm disputing is that these stereotypes played a role on how the board views this pick.

    The majority of the board was approaching this draft (correctly, in my opinion) as the first rebuilding draft of our team in years. Therefore, they expected the team to pick someone with a lot of potential. TJ simply isn't that player. He is a pick that suits a contending team much better than it suits a team that is going through a rebuild. He doesn't look to be a great fit next to Myles Turner either since neither is particularly good at defensive rebounding or at guarding big Cs.

    Those two reasons plus the fact that T-Bird didn't like him a lot and put him at #21 in his big board (and yes, T-Bird's opinion carries a lot of weight in this forum) are enough to make people view the pick apprehensively. The unresolved PG situation isn't helping things either.
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by dgranger17 View Post
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    The New York fan base hated the Porzingis pick. Then he got good. Funny how **** changes.

    The jury is still out on the Arizona big man. We've never seen him play in the NBA so we have no idea.

    I forget whatever point I was trying to make here... because I forgot what I was talking about.

    Go Pacers
    To be fair, the Knicks fan base isn't known to be the smartest fan base in basketball
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I'm watching his DX Weaknesses video and re-reading TBird's analysis and both mentions that he's not very strong. He may have some effort and his length may help....but finishing with contact isn't his strong suit. Also...it looks like we are back to having Players that aren't good ball screeners.

    Given that we have 2 floor spacers in our Front court.....how does that translate into our offense for the rest of the Players on the floor? I would get the sense that penetrators and dishers like Lance and Monta may benefit with more open driving lanes?
    Yeah my biggest question here is how well Leaf and Ike will do without an elite passer. Perhaps Teague is coming back? Pritchard mentioned in the post draft conference that there's many scenarios in which Teague comes back, so who knows. Regardless, I don't see them thriving all that much if Lance is our full time point guard.

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    The Pacers needed shooting something Leaf was one of the best at in this draft.
    Need only matters if we planned on contending. With PG out of the picture we aren't contending so in the draft we should aim for upside.
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    To be fair, the Knicks fan base isn't known to be the smartest fan base in basketball
    That's too easy of a setup to compare with PD

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    pta

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake0890 View Post
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    Yeah my biggest question here is how well Leaf and Ike will do without an elite passer. Perhaps Teague is coming back? Pritchard mentioned in the post draft conference that there's many scenarios in which Teague comes back, so who knows. Regardless, I don't see them thriving all that much if Lance is our full time point guard.
    Why not?

    Myles and TJ ( and hopefully Ike ) appear to be Players that would greatly benefit from having a very good passer that can create offense for them. Lance is exactly that....a very unselfish Player that creates for other while having floor spacers waiting for the ball to catch and shoot.
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Why not?

    Myles and TJ ( and hopefully Ike ) appear to be Players that would greatly benefit from having a very good passer that can create offense for them. Lance is exactly that....a very unselfish Player that creates for other while having floor spacers waiting for the ball to catch and shoot.
    Lance is a really good passer in terms of technique and the kind of passes he can make and a guy that legitimately enjoys doing it. but he's a read and react guy, let him pound the air outta the ball for 15 seconds and herky jerk all over the floor and he'll probably find somebody eventually. I'm fine w/ him running the point next year cuz we'll suck and it'll be entertaining, but you can't build a structured offense around Lance being your point guard.

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Why not?

    Myles and TJ ( and hopefully Ike ) appear to be Players that would greatly benefit from having a very good passer that can create offense for them. Lance is exactly that....a very unselfish Player that creates for other while having floor spacers waiting for the ball to catch and shoot.
    That is not how I would classify Lance. He pulls of some incredible passes but is not a distributor first kind of player. Things can change, but I do think Leaf would do better with a prototypical point guard. And like said above, I don't believe Lance is a long term solution at point, regardless of Leaf.

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    McBob could jump. Leaf doesn't have that on his bag. Way better shooter though.
    Josh McRoberts pre-draft no step vertical and max vertical = 27.5" and 31.5"
    T.J. Leaf pre-draft no step and max vertical= 29" and 34.5"

    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-McRoberts-227/
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/T.J.-Leaf-7242/


    I would expect this kind of analysis from Grimp....

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by ndcoltsnpacers View Post
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    Josh McRoberts pre-draft no step vertical and max vertical = 27.5" and 31.5"
    T.J. Leaf pre-draft no step and max vertical= 29" and 34.5"

    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-McRoberts-227/
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/T.J.-Leaf-7242/


    I would expect this kind of analysis from Grimp....
    Josh McRoberts jumping in actual live action where you don't take 4 steps and a gather w/o a ball for the sole reason to be jumping as high as possible = TO THE MOON

    Leaf can get up fine. but combine jumps are worthless. it's the NFL's 40 yard dash in spandex and no pads and helmet and running 40 yards in a straight line sprint which a non special teams guy may do like 5 times a season.

  28. #93
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Leaf seems like a super nice kid. so there's that I guess.

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!



    this Wheat Hotchkiss character has lampshades made of human skin

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Still can't figure out why this kid can't guard. He seems to have solid size and measurables - is it just bulk?

    Guess I'll go peruse the TBird writeup on him again...

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Quote Originally Posted by funnyguy1105 View Post
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    Still can't figure out why this kid can't guard. He seems to have solid size and measurables - is it just bulk?

    Guess I'll go peruse the TBird writeup on him again...
    he's a stick that's never been asked, let alone taught, to play defense. just has no desire to do it. it's true that defense is as much effort as anything in basketball, but if you come up as a kid (literal kid, like 8 years old) never being told to give a **** about guarding someone you just flat out don't see it as part of the game. your entire approach is focused on getting the ball and putting it in the rim. if a kid's lazy or scoring focused or whatever that's one thing, this is a the way he was taught to play growing up deal where the "important" facets of the game get hardwired. that's really, really, hard to correct.

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Not as pissed about this pick as most. Kid clearly has a combo of length, skill and athleticism that is pretty good for an 18 pick. Absolutely do question the long-term fit with Myles but in the Pacers current situation (and with Thad still on the roster) he doesn't need to line-update next to Turner for 25 minutes a night anytime soon. Given his defensive versatility OG's medical's must not be great if he still slipped another 5-picks after the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    I keep hating our roster more and more every day...

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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Welcome, TJ! Don't know very much about him to be honest, but seems to be a good shooter, passer and competitor, defense seems like a serious concern, but we will see.

    Probably considered the best player available when we picked, because from a roster-lineup perspective I'm thinking mainly duplication with Turner, but maybe I'm wrong . Good luck, TJ, I hope you'll pan out with us!
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    Default Re: Welcome TJ Leaf!

    Don't love or hate the pick. Seems to be a good kid with a good work ethic, so maybe his defense will become passable. I have read a lot that he has a tough streak and isn't just a Troy Murphy-type finesse player, that would be good if true. A player with Troy's 3 point shooting, McBob's athleticism, and a Hansbrough/Biyombo type garbage pail mentality could be nice at 18.

    Only real problem is I probably would have used the pick on a higher ceiling guy, but hey, that's typical Pacers drafting most years.

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