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Thread: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    This one has been bugging me since last night.

    There are people who are claiming that Ron going into the stands was a case of self defense. I've even seen the Prosecuter of that county muse if this was the case.

    I'm not trying to be difficult here but could somebody explain to me how it's self defense?

    Wouldn't it be retaliation?

    I mean let's assume for a min. that it was the bald guy in the blue wallace shirt that threw the cup. He was standing there with his hands in his pocket.

    At what point would a person have the right to strike him in self defense.

    Isn't self defense supposed to be that you are protecting yourself from harm or further harm?

    Let's further assume that hitting him is self defense. How far does it go? Is one punch justified? Is two? Can you pound the guy unconscious? I mean really what is self defense about it if the guy poses no further harm?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    It was no more self defense than what Ben Wallace did to Artest.

    So I agree with you Peck, self-defense is not going to fly.

    It might be a somewhat understandable reaction, but not self defense

  3. #3
    Trace
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    I don't see any justiication for what Ron did. Yes, I completely agree that it would/should make him mad, but a cup of ice was not a serious threat to Ron Artest's health, nor did it endanger his life. Heck, he didn't even know who to go after and hit the wrong guy. It was not self-defense.

    The Pistons fan was certainly wrong for throwing the cup and he put Ron in a difficult situation - a situation that called for a test of Ron's emotional maturity. Ron failed the test miserably. If he would have simply walked to the center of the court, or perhaps notified security, we would have come home with a big win, avoided a riot, and all of our stars would be eligible to play.

    [edit=195=1101052535][/edit]

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    Member Vicious Tyrant's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    You are exactly correct Peck. If you scour some of my previous posts (an excellent past time which I highly recommend, not unlike reading Buffet's annual reports to Berkshire-Hathaway shareholders), I think you'll see I said exactly the same thing.

    Ron did what he did out of ~Pride~, not protection or safety.

    As a juvenile probation officer I hear this "self-defense" thing a lot. I always tell the kids unless you had NO OTHER OPTIONS (including running away), you aren't fighting in self-defense, you're just fighting.
    "If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you." - Jack Handy

  5. #5
    sweabs
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    If Ron didn't do anything, would more people have seen this guy get away with throwing objects at his head, and tried for themselves???

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    Member Vicious Tyrant's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    I think the sad truth is if Ron had done the right thing and walked away, the guy who threw the beer would have had minimal consequence. One positive that may come from the incident is the fans will be more closely scrutinized.
    "If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you." - Jack Handy

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    Member Alabama-Redneck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    For those of you that have a tape of this game, please review the incident. Ron DID NOT throw a punch when he went into the stands until after the guy in the blue shirt started hitting him from behind.

    Sjax hit a guy after he threw a drink and ice onto Ron. I have found no pictures of Ron punching someone in the stands. He did put his hand into the face of the fan and pushed him down but he did not punch him.

    If someone has a different view showing Ron puching someone in the stands, I would like to see it.

    I am not defending Ron going into the stands, just saying I have not seen any pictures or tape of him hitting someone when he went into the stands.

    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

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    Member Mr. Pink's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    When Ron went into the stands...he didn't swing at the guy in the glasses. He just threw him down and I'm sure he was just yelling at him.

    The only time I saw Artest throwing punches was when the guy in the Wallace shirt started hitting him from behind.

    David Stern and his crew won't recognize this though...
    AKA Sactolover05

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    Edge of Reason GO!!!!!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    David Stern and his crew won't recognize this though.


    he has to and i'm totally SURE that some on the PACERS Franchise will MAKE BLOODY WELL SURE they do

    I'm with Redneck, I have rea severel posts and articles and watched the espn coverage several times to have noticed that RonRon even if he did have the wrong guy and the actual guy was the one who was sucker punching him later on while " attempting " to drag him of he was the culprit

    I am of the understanding that RonRon just shoved and held the fan down and yelled at him, why did you do it why did you do it.. and never actully threw a punch

    Jax defended RonRon while he was asking that civil question and threw some punches at some fans that where hassling RonRon ie throwing Ice and drinks while he was askin the fan why why why...


    Ya Think Ya Used Enough Dynamite there Butch...


  10. #10
    stipo
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    The self-defense idea isn't going to float. Pride was the mitigating factor here, like it is with most things in life. I'd probably do the same thing.

    1.Ron gets hit with the drink.
    2. He looks towards the stands and sees everyone laughing and clapping. The crowd is revelling in his embarrassment.
    3. Ron thinks he knows who threw the drink, and in the very least, he sees a taunting, pointing fool, laughing at Rons' predicament (a good place to start)

    Probably a more normal reaction that finding a towel to dry off with (while probably dodging MORE objects) in front of a few thousand laughing people who will gladly heckle you on the way off the floor. Meanwhile, the drink thrower is treated like a hero by his fellow fans. Who can argue that this wouldn't be the case?

    Still it was the wrong reaction. Normal, perhaps, but wrong. I'm trying to imagine which players would NOT react that way. Maybe Grant Hill, little point guards, Ghandi, MLK.

    One thing I am sure of is that (in his playing days) Pacers head cheese Larry Bird would have been kicking some major fan-*** too (on second thought, he probably would have just put the fan in a headlock like he did Dr.J.)


  11. #11
    foretaz
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by stipo
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    The self-defense idea isn't going to float. Pride was the mitigating factor here, like it is with most things in life. I'd probably do the same thing.

    1.Ron gets hit with the drink.
    2. He looks towards the stands and sees everyone laughing and clapping. The crowd is revelling in his embarrassment.
    3. Ron thinks he knows who threw the drink, and in the very least, he sees a taunting, pointing fool, laughing at Rons' predicament (a good place to start)

    Probably a more normal reaction that finding a towel to dry off with (while probably dodging MORE objects) in front of a few thousand laughing people who will gladly heckle you on the way off the floor. Meanwhile, the drink thrower is treated like a hero by his fellow fans. Who can argue that this wouldn't be the case?

    Still it was the wrong reaction. Normal, perhaps, but wrong. I'm trying to imagine which players would NOT react that way. Maybe Grant Hill, little point guards, Ghandi, MLK.

    One thing I am sure of is that (in his playing days) Pacers head cheese Larry Bird would have been kicking some major fan-*** too (on second thought, he probably would have just put the fan in a headlock like he did Dr.J.)
    dont shoot me for doing this....but since im relatively new here, i decided to go back in the archives....and a place i gravitated towards was the brawl....i must say it has been very interesting reviewing what everyone had to say...

    i did find this post very interesting when discussing how just about anyone would do what ron did in going into the stands....the funny par is naming grant hill....who just recently said hed probably have done the same thing....

    once again...i do somewhat apologize for bringing brawl threads back around...but thought it might be a bit amusing....

    ill also say reading these threads and everyones comments is somewhat therapeutic....u might try it sometime.....the unity that existed was pretty cool....

  12. #12
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by stipo
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    Still it was the wrong reaction. Normal, perhaps, but wrong. I'm trying to imagine which players would NOT react that way. Maybe Grant Hill, little point guards, Ghandi, MLK.

    One thing I am sure of is that (in his playing days) Pacers head cheese Larry Bird would have been kicking some major fan-*** too (on second thought, he probably would have just put the fan in a headlock like he did Dr.J.)
    I'm sorry, but most people would not have reacted the same way. Ron clearly has an impulse control disorder, namely Intermittent Explosive Disorder.

    Intermittent Explosive Disorder - Episodes of aggressive outbursts resulting in either destruction of property or physical assaults on others. Typically, this problem results in legal problems as well, because the individual is often charged with assault, or a domestic violence charge.

    Loss of control is an essential feature of this disorder. The individual, usually male, has had several incidents of losing control of anger, resulting in aggressive acting out, either by assaulting others, or destroying property. The degree of aggression is always out of proportion to any precipitating factors that might be present (within an argument, for example). Typically, these individuals will not take responsibility for their loss of control, instead blaming the victim, other circumstances in their life, or some third party who may have told them something or said something that "caused" their uncontrolled anger. Lack of control is a central part of the problem, and inability to accept responsibility for the aggression helps to alleviate guilt. It also prevents the individual from making any changes.

    http://www.psychologyinfo.com/proble...e_control.html

    Of course, that's just my amateur diagnosis.

  13. #13
    foretaz
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    I'm sorry, but most people would not have reacted the same way. Ron clearly has an impulse control disorder, namely Intermittent Explosive Disorder.

    Intermittent Explosive Disorder - Episodes of aggressive outbursts resulting in either destruction of property or physical assaults on others. Typically, this problem results in legal problems as well, because the individual is often charged with assault, or a domestic violence charge.

    Loss of control is an essential feature of this disorder. The individual, usually male, has had several incidents of losing control of anger, resulting in aggressive acting out, either by assaulting others, or destroying property. The degree of aggression is always out of proportion to any precipitating factors that might be present (within an argument, for example). Typically, these individuals will not take responsibility for their loss of control, instead blaming the victim, other circumstances in their life, or some third party who may have told them something or said something that "caused" their uncontrolled anger. Lack of control is a central part of the problem, and inability to accept responsibility for the aggression helps to alleviate guilt. It also prevents the individual from making any changes.

    http://www.psychologyinfo.com/proble...e_control.html

    Of course, that's just my amateur diagnosis.

    this really, really wasnt my intent by bringing up that post...i found it quite funny that he mentioned grant hill wouldnt respond the way artest did...when two weeks ago grant said that he probably wouldve...like most have said they probably wouldve....

    lemme think....someone throws a full beer in my face....yea...im thinking i and probably 200 million americans might have this disorder then....

    can u help me out with the cure as well?

  14. #14
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    this really, really wasnt my intent by bringing up that post...i found it quite funny that he mentioned grant hill wouldnt respond the way artest did...when two weeks ago grant said that he probably wouldve...like most have said they probably wouldve....

    lemme think....someone throws a full beer in my face....yea...im thinking i and probably 200 million americans might have this disorder then....

    can u help me out with the cure as well?
    We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think most people would have reacted the same way under similar circumstances, although I can't imagine what those circumstances might be. Let me play a game with you for a second: Say you came home that night and had no knowledge of the events that took place and your wife or best friend explained to you what happened without naming names. And then he or she asked you to guess who the player was that went into the stands. I don't think it would take you many guesses to get it right. Simply put, trouble just seems to find some people more than others and it's no surprise that Ron was at the center of events that night.

    Oh, and I know that wasn't your intention by bringing up that post, I was merely responding to Stipo independent of your post.

  15. #15
    foretaz
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think most people would have reacted the same way under similar circumstances, although I can't imagine what those circumstances might be. Let me play a game with you for a second: Say you came home that night and had no knowledge of the events that took place and your wife or best friend explained to you what happened without naming names. And then he or she asked you to guess who the player was that went into the stands. I don't think it would take you many guesses to get it right. Simply put, trouble just seems to find some people more than others and it's no surprise that Ron was at the center of events that night.

    Oh, and I know that wasn't your intention by bringing up that post, I was merely responding to Stipo independent of your post.
    lets just say this...i would prefer to not be put in a position to anyway defend or belittle rons actions....

    if ur asking does ron have a reputation? yes...does he have an emotional disorder similar to the one u described? yes....with regard to the events that nite and the events that followed over the next few days, which do i feel was more at work...the reputation...

    and it very well couldve been the first time....because yes..for the first time i guess i do feel he was judged more on his reputation versus the actual action....which...sooner or later is probably unavoidable...

    but i will say this and then leave it alone...many of the detractors like to itemize the long laundry list of things when it comes to his behavior...last years ECF, tv camera, migraines....take them all....and as ive said, i wont argue or debate the validity of any of them....i do however feel the events on 11/19 were different....and will only use this to point that out-everything else ron has ever done, u cant help but shake u r head, and just kinda say ron, 'whatta ya doing'.....and he would have almost noone to side with him on whatever actions ur discussing.....

    11/19 is a different story....like it or not....given all the circumstances of the evening that u did refer to.....not only do people understand what he did, the vast majority of people would probably not respond in a much different fashion...as i was perusing the threads from back around the brawl...i read something that said that ron was assaulted 3 times before he responded(this was a media report, not a poster on here)....

    once when ben gouged him in the throat....once when ben hit him with a towel/headband and once when hit with the cup full of beer....now i wouldnt necessarily call those things assault...but i do think theres a message there....given the evenings events and the overall intensity of the game, to then be faced with those situations one right after another....while his actions are not condoned they are understood....most often times we dont understand rons actions....this time the whole world understands....and the majority of the world would probably have done something very similar....

    i would suggest to u, if that player wouldve been anyone other than ron artest the impending suspensions wouldve been dramatically different....and i would disagree with ur vehemently if u told me that if it were any other player they wouldnt have gone up in the stands and never would have been in that situation....that is something i do not agree with at all....while i do agree that its no coincidence most of the time when people with bad reps find trouble....i do feel that that nite was an exception....and why i view it as somewhat of a fluke....cause really....think about it.....drunk guy hits target from 15 rows away? this guy would put carnies out of business....

    i only choose to look at it this way now....the severity probably speeds up and intensifies rons recovery....when u look the death penalty in the eye u cant help but be a changed person....funny how the talk back then on here was all about the team unifying when all were back....and how this could be a deciding factor in rons recovery....now if everyone can remember that and have enuff patience to see it thru to fruition , there should be a lot of relief to go around...

  16. #16
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Here you go, some short answers to long questions.

    This applies only to Indiana Code but Michigan should be similar.

    What Ron has done.

    Battery 35-42-2-1
    A person who knowingly or intentionally touches another person in a rude, insolent, or angry manner commits battery, a Class B misdemeanor.

    It won't work but Ron and his lawyer may try this excuse.

    The effects of battery-Jusifiable reasonable force.
    When a defendant in a prosecution raises the issue that the defendant was at the time of the alleged crime suffering from the effects of battery as a result of the past course of conduct of the individual who is the victim of the alleged crime: Too bad Ron got the wrong guy. If it had been Green this might have worked.

    More than likely they will try to say Rons' actions were because of .....
    Duress 35-41-3-8
    It is a defense that the person who engaged in the prohibited conduct was compelled to do so by threat of imminent serious bodily injury to himself or another person. With respect to offenses other than felonies, it is a defense that the person who engaged in the prohibited conduct was compelled to do so by force or threat of force. Compulsion under this section exists only if the force, threat, or circumstances are such as would render a person of reasonable firmness incapable of resisting the pressure............SOUNDS GOOD FOR RON, RIGHT?

    However...section (b) of this code states.
    This does not apply to a person who: (1) recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally placed himself in a situation in which it was foreseeable that he would be subjected to duress.

    After reading this I would think obviously Ron doesn't have a prayer or excuse by the law. Once again, however, this might explain why Jermaine's suspension was reduced by Kaplan to only 15 games after he actually hit two people that night.

  17. #17
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    This one has been bugging me since last night.

    There are people who are claiming that Ron going into the stands was a case of self defense. I've even seen the Prosecutor of that county muse if this was the case.

    I'm not trying to be difficult here but could somebody explain to me how it's self defense?

    Wouldn't it be retaliation?

    I mean let's assume for a min. that it was the bald guy in the blue wallace shirt that threw the cup. He was standing there with his hands in his pocket.

    At what point would a person have the right to strike him in self defense.

    Isn't self defense supposed to be that you are protecting yourself from harm or further harm?

    Let's further assume that hitting him is self defense. How far does it go? Is one punch justified? Is two? Can you pound the guy unconscious? I mean really what is self defense about it if the guy poses no further harm?

    Don't worry about starting a lot of threads, I don't think there is one person on here that minds you doing so. You're interesting, readable, and pose points to ponder, and that's why we are all here, to talk basketball.

    As for what Ron did being self defense. Going into the stands of itself is not self defense, it's not a crime, it's nothing. Guys wind up in the stands all the time chasing balls. When he was hit from behind he retaliated, and theres no doubt that was self defense.

    However grabbing someone, how do you characterize that self defense since you don't know if the party is guilty? And how do you separate one incident from all that was going on? Do you isolate the cup throwing from all the other stuff going on? The question is would a court, would a jury isolate it?

    In this particular case I don't think you can isolate all the separate incidents from each other. There's too many of them. That would be like isolating each punch in a fight between individuals. I think that's why the Prosecutor termed it self defense. He was looking at it how the law does.

    All your other questions just muddy the water, they didn't happen. Would it be self defense if a five year old repeatedly stuck you with a hat pin and you turned around and beat him to a pulp. Well yeah . . . but!

  18. #18
    Member Vicious Tyrant's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    lets just say this...i would prefer to not be put in a position to anyway defend or belittle rons actions....
    It seems worth pointing out here that these are not the only two options available to you. I think its completely fair to make a judgement on Ron's actions and find the actions totally unacceptable (and illegal) without "belittling" them.


    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    11/19 is a different story....like it or not....given all the circumstances of the evening that u did refer to.....not only do people understand what he did, the vast majority of people would probably not respond in a much different fashion
    I get that you sincerely believe this, but since you're the one making the assertion here, isn't it fair for me to ask you to provide some kind of evidence or reason for you saying this? My life experience hasn't shown me this in any way.


    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    i only choose to look at it this way now....the severity probably speeds up and intensifies rons recovery....when u look the death penalty in the eye u cant help but be a changed person....funny how the talk back then on here was all about the team unifying when all were back....and how this could be a deciding factor in rons recovery....now if everyone can remember that and have enuff patience to see it thru to fruition , there should be a lot of relief to go around...
    I totally agree with you here. Well put. Eat that, Jay.
    "If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you." - Jack Handy

  19. #19
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious Tyrant
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    It seems worth pointing out here that these are not the only two options available to you. I think its completely fair to make a judgement on Ron's actions and find the actions totally unacceptable (and illegal) without "belittling" them.

    I get that you sincerely believe this, but since you're the one making the assertion here, isn't it fair for me to ask you to provide some kind of evidence or reason for you saying this? My life experience hasn't shown me this in any way.
    Nicely put, on both points.

  20. #20
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    i only choose to look at it this way now....the severity probably speeds up and intensifies rons recovery....when u look the death penalty in the eye u cant help but be a changed person....funny how the talk back then on here was all about the team unifying when all were back....and how this could be a deciding factor in rons recovery....now if everyone can remember that and have enuff patience to see it thru to fruition , there should be a lot of relief to go around...
    If Ron was Fred Jones the patience would have been there. Since it was Ron and people already had strong opinions, it didn't last.

    That's because forums tend to polarize people, they sort of make people go to one side of the issue or other, even when the person is impartial.

    To give an example of how this happens, say we are playing the Clippers in the NBA finals. I use the Clippers because no one has any reason to hate them, other than them being from LA. We are playing the Clippers and a bunch of Clipper trolls come on here and say what trolls say.

    As a fan we have no real reason to hate the Clippers and if all we did was watch on television and the Clippers beat us we would hate it but we still wouldn't hate the Clippers.

    What happens when we hear the trolls though? The more we hear from trolls the more we want the Pacers to beat the Clippers. Whereas before if a bad call went against us we wouldn't have liked it but it wouldn't have been any big deal. Now, after the trolls, we want to win so bad we are enraged by the bad call. We now hate the Clippers.

    That's whats happened with Ron. People on both sides have made ludicrous statements and now there's mostly the haters and the forgivers and few in between.

    All the haters and forgivers have accomplished is they've made the trolls sit back and laugh like heck. In other words trolls have moved people off their impartially.

  21. #21
    Member BigMac's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    My opinion: It was not self-defense but rather an inherant defense mechanism. I can remember when I was younger and when I was playing a sport and I got hit in the head, I lost control and got them back and didn't have any self-control. I wouldn't go swinging (and Ron didn't either) but I would make sure that, in basketball, I got a very, very hard elbow to the chest or throat area (I know, not nice) and in football, I would not even hear the next play and take out the guy's knees on the next play. I never got hit in the head in baseball so I doubt that I would have remembered much if I got hit in the head with a baseball .

    So, with that said, I don't agree with Ron, but I do understand. And the reason that I don't HATE Ron for what he did is because I would have surely done the same, though most likely to more of an extreme. I'm better now that I'm older and I would like to believe that I have more restraint now as I have things to lose for my actions (family, etc.).

  22. #22
    Member jcouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    This one has been bugging me since last night.

    There are people who are claiming that Ron going into the stands was a case of self defense. I've even seen the Prosecuter of that county muse if this was the case.

    I'm not trying to be difficult here but could somebody explain to me how it's self defense?

    Wouldn't it be retaliation?

    I mean let's assume for a min. that it was the bald guy in the blue wallace shirt that threw the cup. He was standing there with his hands in his pocket.

    At what point would a person have the right to strike him in self defense.

    Isn't self defense supposed to be that you are protecting yourself from harm or further harm?

    Let's further assume that hitting him is self defense. How far does it go? Is one punch justified? Is two? Can you pound the guy unconscious? I mean really what is self defense about it if the guy poses no further harm?
    Ron going into the stands is not what begs the question of self-defense.

    What begs the question of self-defense is when he threw the first punch.

    If you watch the film, he did not throw a single punch until he was punched in the back of the head multiple times by the man who actually threw the cup in the first place (while he was confronting the younger kid). The kid he mistakenly went after, he merely bullied around in a "did you throw it? who threw it?" manner...he did not throw any punches at that kid.
    Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team. -- Scottie Pippen

  23. #23
    foretaz
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious Tyrant
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    It seems worth pointing out here that these are not the only two options available to you. I think its completely fair to make a judgement on Ron's actions and find the actions totally unacceptable (and illegal) without "belittling" them.
    i feel this way with all of rons actions....the events on 11/19 strike me a little different...only in this way....all of rons behavior problems with the exception of 11/19 appear to be the result of an impulse reaction problem based on his severe unresolved emotional issues...and if most people were put in rons shoes they would react much differently and would not have done what ron did...

    his actions on 11/19, while not being acceptable at all-and wrong, are much more understandable from a human nature standpoint and i feel many humans would have reacted similarly if placed in a similar situation....and i will say why i feel this way below....but realize that by saying this my intent is not to condone the behavior-just because many would do it doesnt make it right





    I get that you sincerely believe this, but since you're the one making the assertion here, isn't it fair for me to ask you to provide some kind of evidence or reason for you saying this? My life experience hasn't shown me this in any way.

    i will gladly tell u why i feel the majority would react in a similar fashion.......two basic reasons...

    that nite the initial response was overwhelming....and it was supportive of what ron did....which means before people had a chance to think they felt the same way....before the nba had a chance to spin the issue....before people had the time to review the impact of sending a message that was understanding of what ron did....and thats the whole point...ron didnt have that time to think....he reacted....just like evryone reacted that nite....now when given a chance to think they might have recanted....but that simply doesnt matter as its not the same thing....

    secondly....most everyone that has been asked and honestly responded with a direct response has said they either would have or probably would have done what ron did....and when i see individuals such as a grant hill-who many have respect for say this, then it seems that just maybe its not as farfetched as some would have us believe....

    once again, this in no way makes it right, just understandable behavior....because humans do make mistakes...and in this particular case i think ron made mistakes that pointed much more to the fact that he was human versus having unresolved emotional issues-though these events dont change the fact that i know he does have these issues....but it does allow that he was indeed making progress regarding thse if u consider the possibility that this was a natural human reaction versus one based on emotional problems....

    im about as calm and unemotional as they come, believe it or not....someone shoves me into a bsketball support, gouges me in the throat, throws things at me and makes every effort to get at me, and then im finally hit with a full beer....im thinking that might be the last straw and i respond in some fashion other than calmly go find security and poiint out the problem....and no...i just dont think im in the minority on this one....

  24. #24
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Yes, it was retaliation. Yes, it was battery. What people neglect to mention is, the cup was battery as well. The prosecutor said as much the day the charges were announced.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  25. #25
    foretaz
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    Default Re: I'm sorry for so many threads but I have another question....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    Yes, it was retaliation. Yes, it was battery. What people neglect to mention is, the cup was battery as well. The prosecutor said as much the day the charges were announced.
    and what do u get when u combine two batteries? detroit fans doing their version of the energizer bunny meets the darkside?

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