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Why Artest Wont Be Traded

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  • #46
    Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

    that being said....can anyone logically see a scenario where this team plays poorly?....just wont happen...too good...too talented...too well coached

    You mean with Ron or without Ron? Or are you saying either way it's hard to imagine poor play?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    • #47
      Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

      I'm sure the Pacers won't stop making a trade because they're afraid the fanbase will cry foul. The only way I'd see that happening is if they would have traded Reggie. No other player comes within miles of Reggie in this scenario (upsetting people over a trade of him).

      They'll do whatever they feel is best, whenever they can.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

        I expected that counter-point, and I understand where you are coming from. I've always thought that, just moments after a trade involving Ron is announced, the floodgates will open and everyone's real thoughts - no longer filtered by the unwritten rule that you never say anything bad about a teammate (even if it is obvious) - on the situation will come out.

        It will be put in such a light that the Ron-loving Pacers fans will grudingly accept the fact that the behind-the-scenes stuff is worse than they feared, but it will not be enough to appease the Pacers-loving Ron fans who feel that no matter how bad Ron has been behind the scenes, he's soooooo good that its everybody else's job to get along with him. UncleBuck, for example, has always said that if DW (Bird) traded Ron, that he would accept that it means that they believe Ron's bad stuff outweighs his good. And I expect many others of you would follow suit. Not all of you, but many of you.

        In other words, I expect to see more of what we saw in the NY Times:

        "We're tired of babysitting him..."

        "The players just don't trust him..."

        "Our coaches spend so much time appeasing him that they don't have enough time to develop strategty, etc."

        "The young players are afraid of him..."

        Etc.

        I'm still not a believer, BTW, that this team is going to come out of the gate 'smoking' next season. There are some major issues to work out, regardless of whether the Pacers make any trades this summer or not.

        Rick is in a difficult position. The first time he's got to call somebody's number at crunch time, it might get nasty. Especially if either JO or Ron miss that shot. What do you do? Pick Ron to symbolically show him he's still part of the team, while JO fumes because he's been the go-to guy for quite a while now?? Or pick JO and hope that Ron doesn't break the plays anymore?? Or do you cut the baby in half??

        If Rick can fix this team's chemistry, I fear the Pacers may then lose him to a Middle-East Peace negotiations team.
        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
        And life itself, rushing over me
        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

          I think it's a no brainer to keep Ron around. If he screws up this year then I'm sure he knows it'll cut his career short, and I just don't think he's that stupid. Maybe I'm also a believer in the fact that people can change. You just have to keep an open mind. I too agree that he will help fill the seats in the absence of Reggie. As a matter of fact I'd go as far to say that (in my opinion) if the whole 11/19 incident never happened, Reggie would have been passing the torch to Ron, not Jermaine. I just strongly believe that while Jermaine is more mature, Ron is our answer.

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          • #50
            Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

            Originally posted by foretaz
            Today, 11:26 PM

            This message is hidden because Harmonica is on your ignore list.
            Ah, another hard earned vote..........

            PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

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            • #51
              Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

              Originally posted by Peck
              that being said....can anyone logically see a scenario where this team plays poorly?....just wont happen...too good...too talented...too well coached

              You mean with Ron or without Ron? Or are you saying either way it's hard to imagine poor play?

              the premise was with ron....cause without him the conversation really isnt relevant....

              the thought process was how do u trade him midseason if the pacers are playing really well.....

              to which i stated the only way that would seem reasonable for them to trade him midseason would be if they were playing poorly....and then i asked what was the possibility of them playing poorly with ron the first half of the season....not likely it would appear...

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              • #52
                Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                Originally posted by MagicRat
                Ah, another hard earned vote..........
                This one was easy.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                  Originally posted by Hicks
                  I'm sure the Pacers won't stop making a trade because they're afraid the fanbase will cry foul. The only way I'd see that happening is if they would have traded Reggie. No other player comes within miles of Reggie in this scenario (upsetting people over a trade of him).

                  They'll do whatever they feel is best, whenever they can.
                  i dont think the pacers are so naive as to think they dont have an attendance issue....

                  given this teams ability to draw, they barely sold out the playoff games.....you now are faced with losing the face of the franchise who undoubtedly put a fair number of butts in the seats....

                  u couple this with the fact that artest has become a martyr and a soft spot for many fans and you must at least consider the possibility that trading him would only weaken an already fragile mindset of a certain percentage of the fanbase.....while i believe that the majority of the fanbase trusts larry and donnie, i do believe they identify more with ron versus the image that many have of jermaine....ron is perceived by many to bring that blue collar mentality while many, it seems, view jermaine as a prima donna....

                  bottom line is, u need to have someone the fans identify and develop a bond with....the most likely person for that role right now, right or wrong, is ron...which again creates a bit of a dilemma for them and only one more thing that makes his being traded so difficult and touchy...

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                    Originally posted by foretaz
                    i dont think the pacers are so naive as to think they dont have an attendance issue....

                    given this teams ability to draw, they barely sold out the playoff games.....you now are faced with losing the face of the franchise who undoubtedly put a fair number of butts in the seats....

                    u couple this with the fact that artest has become a martyr and a soft spot for many fans and you must at least consider the possibility that trading him would only weaken an already fragile mindset of a certain percentage of the fanbase.....while i believe that the majority of the fanbase trusts larry and donnie, i do believe they identify more with ron versus the image that many have of jermaine....ron is perceived by many to bring that blue collar mentality while many, it seems, view jermaine as a prima donna....

                    bottom line is, u need to have someone the fans identify and develop a bond with....the most likely person for that role right now, right or wrong, is ron...which again creates a bit of a dilemma for them and only one more thing that makes his being traded so difficult and touchy...
                    I don't think fans identify with Ron Artest. No one would say that fans identify with Dennis Rodman, Mike Tyson, or other elaborate stars who are known more for how crazy they have been than for how great of a player/boxer they are. Rodman was a great rebounder, Artest is a great defender, and Tyson was a great boxer, but never does a media personnel ever mention any of these guys w/o mentioning something discouraging.

                    Artest may put fans in seats, but I hypothesize that it's not as many season ticket holders and more individual ticket buyers. It is important to sell out an arena to present a level of scarcity, but never would a team put Artest as the face of it no matter how much fans relate to him. Just because a team should have a person fit that role does not mean that there is a player to fit that role. Jermaine had a poor year for publicity, but it was only a year ago when he was voted as one of the best for interviews by the media. He can relate to fans and he's a great basketball player. A few solid months of great basketball and keeping his nose clean presents a better candidate for this role than a few good months for Ron Artest.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                      Originally posted by BustedPants
                      I don't think fans identify with Ron Artest. No one would say that fans identify with Dennis Rodman, Mike Tyson, or other elaborate stars who are known more for how crazy they have been than for how great of a player/boxer they are. Rodman was a great rebounder, Artest is a great defender, and Tyson was a great boxer, but never does a media personnel ever mention any of these guys w/o mentioning something discouraging.

                      Artest may put fans in seats, but I hypothesize that it's not as many season ticket holders and more individual ticket buyers. It is important to sell out an arena to present a level of scarcity, but never would a team put Artest as the face of it no matter how much fans relate to him. Just because a team should have a person fit that role does not mean that there is a player to fit that role. Jermaine had a poor year for publicity, but it was only a year ago when he was voted as one of the best for interviews by the media. He can relate to fans and he's a great basketball player. A few solid months of great basketball and keeping his nose clean presents a better candidate for this role than a few good months for Ron Artest.
                      this all sounds good in theory....but im not so sure it plays out that way....

                      the situation with jermaine isnt so simple....he signed a 126 million dollar contract....todays fans have a bit of a problem with that....while him playing well might help, hes hardly gonna be someone they identify with.....u factor in his expressive nature on the court and many fans find it very easy to resent jo.....many will see him as a prima donna...contract, the hootin and hollerin after a dunk, its just avoidable....while i personally dont share to much of that attitude, this is simply life in the nba these days...and why the nba has a problem, in general, with its fan base....

                      like it or not, because of the effort that ron brings every nite, plus him not being paid exhorbitantly, and the fans being oblivious to alot of his locker room problems coupled with his martrydom from last year will make him one that todays fan can find it pretty easy to gravitate to....and many will be watching what he does from here....many will want to see if he screws up again....and when he doesnt, then he will become even more endeared to a big percentage of the fan base...fans love guys who put forth the kind of effort that ron does every game.....if these guys are gonna make so much money, the majority of fans want to see the effort that says the athlete cares....they get that from ron....so while they might not like everything he does, they will find it much easier to forgive him when he brings the effort every nite.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                        The season ticket holders I know are renewing even though Reggie is gone, but they are renewing because they expect the Pacers to be a title contender next season.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                          Originally posted by foretaz
                          this all sounds good in theory....but im not so sure it plays out that way....

                          the situation with jermaine isnt so simple....he signed a 126 million dollar contract....todays fans have a bit of a problem with that....while him playing well might help, hes hardly gonna be someone they identify with.....u factor in his expressive nature on the court and many fans find it very easy to resent jo.....many will see him as a prima donna...contract, the hootin and hollerin after a dunk, its just avoidable....while i personally dont share to much of that attitude, this is simply life in the nba these days...and why the nba has a problem, in general, with its fan base....

                          like it or not, because of the effort that ron brings every nite, plus him not being paid exhorbitantly, and the fans being oblivious to alot of his locker room problems coupled with his martrydom from last year will make him one that todays fan can find it pretty easy to gravitate to....and many will be watching what he does from here....many will want to see if he screws up again....and when he doesnt, then he will become even more endeared to a big percentage of the fan base...fans love guys who put forth the kind of effort that ron does every game.....if these guys are gonna make so much money, the majority of fans want to see the effort that says the athlete cares....they get that from ron....so while they might not like everything he does, they will find it much easier to forgive him when he brings the effort every nite.
                          Jermaine O'Neal may "hoot and holler" after a big dunk, but Artest acts in a very similar manner. During the game against the Heat back in 2002-2003 season, he flexed in front of Pat Riley and the rest of the Heat bench. He has thrown up his share of middle fingers, and has obviously gotten violent in a number of occasions--- including when he was on the Bulls playing the Pacers in Indiana. He doesn't complain to the refs as much as Jermaine does, but I think his absence this year made many people, including you, Foretaz, forget some of Ron's negative traits.

                          "Todays fans" don't like big contracts, but they also didn't like them 10 years ago. Big contracts are nothing new. It's only a hypothetical, but if Jermaine was a free agent this summer, every team that could would offer him max dollars, including the Pacers. He's a Top 25 talent that has earned his money and will continue to do so. It may be $126 MM, but (1) it would have never happened if Isiah was fired a week later and (2) I don't regret signing him. This isn't a Bender or Croshere deal... Jermaine is the best PF in the East, and hasn't necessarily reached his prime, depending on how injuries play out through his career.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                            Originally posted by BustedPants
                            Jermaine O'Neal may "hoot and holler" after a big dunk, but Artest acts in a very similar manner. During the game against the Heat back in 2002-2003 season, he flexed in front of Pat Riley and the rest of the Heat bench. He has thrown up his share of middle fingers, and has obviously gotten violent in a number of occasions--- including when he was on the Bulls playing the Pacers in Indiana. He doesn't complain to the refs as much as Jermaine does, but I think his absence this year made many people, including you, Foretaz, forget some of Ron's negative traits.

                            "Todays fans" don't like big contracts, but they also didn't like them 10 years ago. Big contracts are nothing new. It's only a hypothetical, but if Jermaine was a free agent this summer, every team that could would offer him max dollars, including the Pacers. He's a Top 25 talent that has earned his money and will continue to do so. It may be $126 MM, but (1) it would have never happened if Isiah was fired a week later and (2) I don't regret signing him. This isn't a Bender or Croshere deal... Jermaine is the best PF in the East, and hasn't necessarily reached his prime, depending on how injuries play out through his career.
                            ummm....naaaa....i havent forgotten any of artests antics....

                            and why you felt compelled to go on the jo rant im not really sure...if u want to do that, its fine...to do it to me, might be a bit silly...as im a jo supporter....

                            i only make the case that he would appear to have a fair amount of detractors and most importantly will probably struggle to be a fan favorite for the aforementioned reasons....

                            as ive clearly said before theres only two people id trade jo for....duncan and kg....

                            so i think u might be preaching to the choir....

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                            • #59
                              Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                              Originally posted by foretaz
                              ummm....naaaa....i havent forgotten any of artests antics....

                              and why you felt compelled to go on the jo rant im not really sure...if u want to do that, its fine...to do it to me, might be a bit silly...as im a jo supporter....

                              i only make the case that he would appear to have a fair amount of detractors and most importantly will probably struggle to be a fan favorite for the aforementioned reasons....

                              as ive clearly said before theres only two people id trade jo for....duncan and kg....

                              so i think u might be preaching to the choir....
                              You may be a JO supporter and I may be preaching to the choir, but I was only stating why I Ron Artest is not this "role" that you have mentioned. This does not mean JO is. However, if anyone on the team had the chance to be, then it would be Jermaine and not Artest. Pointing to an audience's interest in the bazaar Artest does not mean they relate to him. Most of us have gotten upset and let our temper get us--- very few of us have actually punched out (undeserving) people at the same time. I am not attempting to rehash old news, and I also know that you have a great idea of who Artest is, but for you to attempt to claim that the "blue collar" fan really relates to Ron, I'll have to disagree.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Why Artest Wont Be Traded

                                Originally posted by BustedPants
                                You may be a JO supporter and I may be preaching to the choir, but I was only stating why I Ron Artest is not this "role" that you have mentioned. This does not mean JO is. However, if anyone on the team had the chance to be, then it would be Jermaine and not Artest. Pointing to an audience's interest in the bazaar Artest does not mean they relate to him. Most of us have gotten upset and let our temper get us--- very few of us have actually punched out (undeserving) people at the same time. I am not attempting to rehash old news, and I also know that you have a great idea of who Artest is, but for you to attempt to claim that the "blue collar" fan really relates to Ron, I'll have to disagree.

                                ummmm...who punched out an undeserving fan????

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