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Thread: Ron Artest not avaliable?

  1. #26
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Oh-oh, here we go again.

  2. #27
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Regarding the quote, it's just a tactic. Don't take too much stock in what GMs publicly say regarding players and trades. It's like a game of poker to these guys.
    this is very true....though i cant help but think there is some underlying tone to this message that i disagree with, but anyway, i digress....

    however....if u say this to pass it off as not being possible....that would be a mistake....

    i too, feel you cant believe any things these guys say....because, yes, it is like poker....and bluffs etc. are decent analogies...

    the point is....sometimes theyre telling the truth....

    and sometimes theyre not....which is the real reason u cant believe them...because NONE of us really knows when theyre really telling the truth and when theyre not...hell, people lie to their families all the time, like it or not, why wouldnt they lie to the press....

    larrys words could truly mean they will not trade artest...period....they could also mean that they would trade him for a draft pick....

    we just dont know....and while it might be fun to speculate...it still is just that .....speculation, no matter what anyone would have u believe....

  3. #28
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    I think what this likely means is that Bird will not just dump Artest. If someone wants him they'll have to give equal value.

  4. #29
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I think what this likely means is that Bird will not just dump Artest. If someone wants him they'll have to give equal value.
    which to me is why this thing is a vicious cycle....and neverending circle argument.....25 years old....3rd team all nba...dpoy...top 5 all around talent in nba....makes 6 million....

    everyone else who might be similar makes at least twice and in most cases 3 times what he makes...

    the ones that dont are either on their rookie contract and will soon sign for the max or someone like manu(who makes a few mill more than artest) who a team would have zero interest in trading for the exact same reason.....

    i dont see anyone taking on crosheres contract to take artest-because artest is a big gamble-no denying it from a business standpoint....

    so how do u really get equal value??? i think from a business standpoint its just impossible....and im gonna make a post as to why I dont think they will trade artest, separate from the business issues...

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    What other reason would I have for wanting to get rid of him?

    That reason floats just fine. If Ron ever keeps his act clean for half a year, we should consider ourselves lucky, and move him before he destroys his trade value again.

    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

  6. #31
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Regarding the quote, it's just a tactic. Don't take too much stock in what GMs publicly say regarding players and trades. It's like a game of poker to these guys.

    Yes but Bird is not saying it publicly. The newspaper report is that is what Bird is telling GM's privately. You don't see a quote from Bird in there do you

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    This is an Orlando paper, right? Wonder what the Magic were offering.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  8. #33
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    Dunno - could he have gotten you Vince Carter last season? Probably not since you didn't have any ending contracts to throw in but big-time players have been available each of the last 2 years at the trade deadline.

    Though if the Pacers insist that they receive an absolutely equal on-the-floor player in return for Artest then he'll be here a long time. It'll take 2-3 years before what happened last season can be discounted - and then only if he doesn't have any of his other, smaller meltdowns.
    im sorry, but to suggest vince carter as a viable alternative to artest is a bit humorous to me....after his actions last year that eventually got him traded...i just really dont know how u couldve considered carter as an improvement....i wont get into the basketball side of it-because vince would have a tough time in that argument as well-i think the last time he played defense was in north carolina-and im not talking about charlotte....

    however....for someone to do the things he did to get traded....i have a strong feeling there would be a strong sentiment preferring someone who 'brings it' every nite with emotional issues that can probably be resolved versus someone that will pout and act inappropriately till he gets his way....

    but thats just my opinion...

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    however....for someone to do the things he did to get traded....
    Add Alonzo to that list as well.

  10. #35
    foretaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    What other reason would I have for wanting to get rid of him?

    That reason floats just fine. If Ron ever keeps his act clean for half a year, we should consider ourselves lucky, and move him before he destroys his trade value again.

    im curious...does this logic hold true for everyone or just artest.....if bender has a great first half of the year, do u trade him too?

    so bender and artest have a great half of the year...do we trade them both?

    so what we are saying is, 25 year olds cant change, no matter what the issue might be....that, to me, might be a bit presumptuous....

    how u gonna feel if artest is traded, becomes mvp of the league, and look back and u traded him after he had a brush with death, got help, changed his ways and showed evidence of changing his ways?

    how u gonna feel if u saw the signs of greatness in bender for years....but his health because of his size and his youth, simply were the most truest definition of growing pains.....he finally gets healthy, begins to perform and u trade him away....only to be haunted by that fact for years to come....

    it would be one thing if there were no signs of greatness in these guys....its a totally different story when it comes to the patience issue in realizing that greatness....

    remember this...good things come to those who wait....we live in a world that wants instant gratification...let alone a world that wants to sit back and wait....and endure what seems like a neverending cycle of trial and tribulation....

    why go thru all the trial and tribulation and then give our just desserts to someone else and be left to think about how hungry we are and how good that would have tasted?

  11. #36
    foretaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    Add Alonzo to that list as well.

    u know what....i think alonzo did some inappropriate things....but i also think the things alonzo did get a bit misconstrued....

    vince carter spent years proclaiming his loyalty and love for a franchise and vowed to do this and that....then just suddenly became disenchanted and realized hed made some mistakes and had made a bed he really didnt like....

    alonzo never made these some sort of vows....he made it very clear up front about certain things....and he stuck by those words for the most part, though they wont always be received well....

    alonzo has clearly stated he wanted to compete for a championship and thats all that matters to him....ill give him something for being honest....and sticking by that....noone likes to lose....alonzo's love was never deemed to be unconditional....

    vince's was...he wanted to have a franchise built around him....then he changed his mind...after he had gotten that huge contract-a contract much larger than he couldve gotten anywhere else....

    zo ended up playing for almost next to nothing this year....just to play for the championship....im not saying this makes him a saint....i just dont think he belongs in the same boat with vince...

    ill say this...and many people probably scoff at the notion...but i was wishing like hell we couldve picked zo up....and still am....

    however, i also understand he never will leave miami again...its his home...hes got a chance to compete for the championship and hes gonna stay there....but i think he brings a toughness that is very valuable to a team trying to win...and as a backup i like his ability to defend the post and inspire a team....i think he would be an amazing pickup....almost would be willing to give him the MLE for one year....but it will never happen...even if offered i feel certain he wouldnt take it.....

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    I can believe that all Alonzo ever wanted was to play for a contender, however, he still took $10 million from the Raptors after refusing to go there. I guess that's how you get punished for not making the playoffs.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    Why will Ron be playing for our summer league, anyhow? Isn't that usually for rookies and rookie-contract players?
    (1)It's possible it's part of his reinstatement package. Prove to us you can play in front of 500 fans without getting into a fight.

    (2) More likely, it's to ease Ron into those adverse situations and prepare him for the preseason heckling he'll surely get. Ron you owe us some preparation time and this is it.

    (3) If he's going to be a problem, let's find out sooner, rather than later.

  14. #39
    foretaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    I can believe that all Alonzo ever wanted was to play for a contender, however, he still took $10 million from the Raptors after refusing to go there. I guess that's how you get punished for not making the playoffs.

    rwb....i think u might be mistaken on this...alonzo took a huge financial hit to go to miami....he made a huge financial concession regarding the buyout of his contract to go to miami.....the raptors played hardball, cause they knew they could...and alonzo eventually caved....i just read this somewhere within the last 3 weeks....in fact it went something like this....after much negotiation, alonzo just told his agent to do whatever the raptors wanted...at that point he didnt care about the money...i wish i could give u a link...but i read alot of stuff...sorry...though i really have no reason to make it up...for what its worth...

    and to be honest...i think it goes even more to the new jersey thing....i dont blame jason kidd and alonzo for being totally pi$$ed....they both made it very clear why they went to new jersey....and the new ownership is now on record as saying they made a huge mistake last offseason...which to me only gives validation to what jason and alonzo were feeling...and i personally think jason feels even worse because he talked zo into coming to jersey, though zo went on his accord for his own somewhat selfish reasons-to win a title

  15. #40
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    im curious...does this logic hold true for everyone or just artest.....if bender has a great first half of the year, do u trade him too?



    This comparison is absurd. Bender's problem is his health, Artest's is his demeanor. It's two completely unrelated situations, and you know that.


    Yes, that logic applies only to Artest. As far as I know, he is the only player on the team that is such a disruption. If we ever bring in a player with similar issues, I would also want him traded.


    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    so bender and artest have a great half of the year...do we trade them both?

    so what we are saying is, 25 year olds cant change, no matter what the issue might be....that, to me, might be a bit presumptuous....

    how u gonna feel if artest is traded, becomes mvp of the league, and look back and u traded him after he had a brush with death, got help, changed his ways and showed evidence of changing his ways?





    No, what is presumptuous is placing words in my mouth. If we are going to have a friendly debate, please stop assuming you know what I think, especially when it's something as stupid a "25 year olds can't change."

    Brush with death? Hardly. Artest screwed up, and was punished. If he brushed up against anything, it was suicide. You talk of Ron as if he were some sort of perverted martyr.



    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    how u gonna feel if u saw the signs of greatness in bender for years....but his health because of his size and his youth, simply were the most truest definition of growing pains.....he finally gets healthy, begins to perform and u trade him away....only to be haunted by that fact for years to come....

    it would be one thing if there were no signs of greatness in these guys....its a totally different story when it comes to the patience issue in realizing that greatness....

    remember this...good things come to those who wait....we live in a world that wants instant gratification...let alone a world that wants to sit back and wait....and endure what seems like a neverending cycle of trial and tribulation....

    why go thru all the trial and tribulation and then give our just desserts to someone else and be left to think about how hungry we are and how good that would have tasted?
    Foretaz, I know full well what it means to be patient, so save me the lecture.

    As for Ron, I think we have been more than patient with him. At some point, you have to start looking to trade him (last offseason).
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  16. #41
    Member Ultimate Frisbee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Consider Artest as half of a player and you have no problem... His salary is half of what he probably deserves (considering only skill)

  17. #42
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    why go thru all the trial and tribulation and then give our just desserts to someone else and be left to think about how hungry we are and how good that would have tasted?
    That would be unacceptable to me, crushing in fact.

    You've heard the saying, "You're in good hands with All State?" Well, the Pacers are in good hands with Bird and Walsh. They both know what they are doing. I'll give up on Bender and Artest when they do, and not until.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I think what this likely means is that Bird will not just dump Artest.

    Agree


    If someone wants him they'll have to give equal value.
    IMHO... inconclusive. Not enough info is available to agree with you here. It simply means if someone wants Artest they will have to give up more than what is regularly being offered. That doesn't mean 'equal' value per se', just something better than the existing offers (assuming there even is any).

    I'm not convinced the Pacers wouldn'tt trade Artest for less than equal value, but at this point I doubt they'd just give him away.

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  19. #44
    Member OnlyPacersLeft's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Told yaaaaaaaaaaaa!
    Ron is our key to winning! I LOVE RONNIE!
    Him+JO+JACK+A Polished JJ...
    OMG...That's heart attack material there.
    JJ=Our new Reggie.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Oh-oh, here we go again.
    Are we there yet?

    -Bball
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  21. #46

    Default Re: Ron Artest not avaliable?

    A couple of things some of you should consider:

    - We will not get an improvement that shows on the stat sheet for Ron...period. I think Ron is so good on offense and defense. Also, consider how low his trade value is for a player of his skills. Don't even begin to expect a player of equal talent.
    - It would be a personel move, or chemistry type of move which may or may not improve our chemistry, which is probably much more important than any skill anyone can give us. Skills, stats they are not everything in putting together a championship caliber team. I remember John Wooden saying he would never consider a player if that player had a bad reputation for causing drama, keeping those non-drama players seemed to work out well for Mr.Wooden.

    And earlier in the thread someone said why trade Ron at the deadline if he is being a distraction? I can't say I trust Ron that much anymore and I doubt Pacer's management does at this point in time, which he could gain back in time though.

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