View Poll Results: What do we do now?

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  • Re-Tool around the current asset that we have and make a push for the Playoffs

    6 11.54%
  • Re-build COMPLETELY from scratch?

    46 88.46%
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Thread: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

  1. #26
    Away From Sharp Objects Gremz's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    I honestly have no idea. I guess once a PG deal is announced I'd have a better idea of what I'd like us to do, but it's such a short turn around with perhaps a very poor return that I feasibly have no idea of what to think at this point. Sigh.

  2. #27
    Member MUpaceSIC's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Rebuild to Sixers level. Suck, play your young draft picks big minutes with the hope they turn into stars.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #28
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Change the culture from the top down. Remove the "We're a small market team and we can't __________" mindset from everyone from Simon down to the ushers.
    Fire anyone that utters "We can't do that because we're a small market team" from the payroll immediately.
    Admit nothing good comes from being mediocre.
    When the opportunity to be bad is in front of you, embrace it because that is the way the NBA is setup to get lottery picks. Don't reach for some bandaids to be in competition for the 8th playoff spot because that is how you remain mediocre.
    Don't ask players to lose though. But don't throw the kitchen sink at games either just to win a few extra games when it's all said and done. Embrace the system and stay the course. Don't run any players into the ground for the sake of a lost season trying to steal a win or two.
    Next, draft well. Project well. Build the team well. Be fast and agile with the roster as needed. Don't let mistakes fester. Don't make cap crippling, panic moves trying to go back to the old mindset and culture of just making the playoffs or trying to sell the public on the idea that making the playoffs means you have a chance at the title. The NBA isn't the NCAA. Cinderella doesn't get far in the NBA.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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  5. #29
    Member ksuttonjr76's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    It's not the worst time in NBA history to suck *** that's for sure.
    Man, this is the quote of the month for me, lol.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

  6. #30
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Change the culture from the top down. Remove the "We're a small market team and we can't __________" mindset from everyone from Simon down to the ushers.
    Fire anyone that utters "We can't do that because we're a small market team" from the payroll immediately.
    Admit nothing good comes from being mediocre.
    When the opportunity to be bad is in front of you, embrace it because that is the way the NBA is setup to get lottery picks. Don't reach for some bandaids to be in competition for the 8th playoff spot because that is how you remain mediocre.
    Don't ask players to lose though. But don't throw the kitchen sink at games either just to win a few extra games when it's all said and done. Embrace the system and stay the course. Don't run any players into the ground for the sake of a lost season trying to steal a win or two.
    Next, draft well. Project well. Build the team well. Be fast and agile with the roster as needed. Don't let mistakes fester. Don't make cap crippling, panic moves trying to go back to the old mindset and culture of just making the playoffs or trying to sell the public on the idea that making the playoffs means you have a chance at the title. The NBA isn't the NCAA. Cinderella doesn't get far in the NBA.
    And enjoy the new Seattle Supersonics getting to the WCF a few times, because after a few years of attendance in the 5000 range, having the Fox Sports contract cancelled for broadcast and loss of sponsorships due to no eyeballs we're going to see B&G's desire come true.

    The good news will be that we'll be the first NBA city to see their minor league soccer team outsell their NBA team. Whee.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

  7. #31
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    And enjoy the new Seattle Supersonics getting to the WCF a few times, because after a few years of attendance in the 5000 range, having the Fox Sports contract cancelled for broadcast and loss of sponsorships due to no eyeballs we're going to see B&G's desire come true.

    The good news will be that we'll be the first NBA city to see their minor league soccer team outsell their NBA team. Whee.
    You're fired!
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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  9. #32
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    You're fired!
    You can't fire me. I buy my spot.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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  11. #33
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    While some people will endlessly beg for the full tank, we'll never actually see that here. I do think Pritch will try to get as many draft picks as he can in the next 2-3 seasons, starting this week with PG and Thad. But I'm very optimistic about Myles Turner, and I'm optimistic that we'll have multiple picks in this year's draft, which I think will net us two solid players.

    No one is going to replace PG next year, so I hope Pritch doesn't go for the "gotta save face" move of re-signing Teague, and I hope we don't take back any player in a trade that's signed for more than 2 years unless we Pritch-slap someone into giving us an actual All Star on a rookie deal. Maybe Donnie Walsh has been quietly scouring the back channels for the next complete unknown that turns into an MVP candidate like he found in JO.

    But I can't imagine Pritch going full Hinkie. Not because I think the team would move if he does, but just because that's never been the mindset around here and I think Pritch values that culture in the franchise. We've definitely lost a little of the winning culture of the Reggie years and the togetherness of the Vogel years, but we've got a chance right now to get out of our biggest salary, cut ties with a couple mistakes, and avoid compounding problems by re-signing veterans that won't be good enough to win or bad enough to lose. If we successfully navigate the minefield of shedding the poor fits, we can very quickly bring that culture back with a couple guys from good programs being developed with Myles and building a real chemistry.
    It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

  12. #34
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    It's not the worst time in NBA history to suck *** that's for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Man, this is the quote of the month for me, lol.
    Remember, just because we suck....it doesn't mean that we are not playing for something or driving towards some goal. That's what everyone else will likely be forced to do....as Trader Joe is suggesting.

    That also IMHO means that we have to re-build our culture and team identity. The goal is to build the best YOUNG and TALENTED Team through Team Chemistry that is competitive to make a serious and deep Playoff run in 3 to 4 years....specifically when Lebron and the Warriors start to slow down.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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  14. #35
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    The goal is to build the best YOUNG and TALENTED Team through Team Chemistry that is competitive to make a serious and deep Playoff run in 3 to 4 years....specifically when Lebron and the Warriors start to slow down.
    The problem is that we'll have to turn on a dime from a team built for losing as much as possible to get assets to a team that wins immediately.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

  15. #36
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    The problem is that we'll have to turn on a dime from a team built for losing as much as possible to get assets to a team that wins immediately.
    I guess I look at it as another 3 ( but more realistically 4 ) year plan. The difference being that the focus is to win as much games as possible but developing the young long-term core as the backbone of this Team...as opposed to the "Win as many games as possible using the vets and short term Players that are better now instead of our youth" method that Bird followed. The way I look at it is to do our best to build a young and talented core with the CLEAR understanding that we will develop our long-term core even if it means end up losing games while not intentionally losing games ( a la the Sixers ). My hope is that the Team will be inching themselves towards becoming a Playoff bubble Team in the next 2 to 3 seasons. This IMHO builds a winning culture and Team chemistry for the long term among the long-term core of Players with intention of making the Team more competitive in 4 years.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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  17. #37
    The Dude Abides pizza guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I guess I look at it as another 3 ( but more realistically 4 ) year plan. The difference being that the focus is to win as much games as possible but developing the young long-term core as the backbone of this Team...as opposed to the "Win as many games as possible using the vets and short term Players that are better now instead of our youth" method that Bird followed. The way I look at it is to do our best to build a young and talented core with the CLEAR understanding that we will develop our long-term core even if it means end up losing games while not intentionally losing games ( a la the Sixers ). My hope is that the Team will be inching themselves towards becoming a Playoff bubble Team in the next 2 to 3 seasons. This IMHO builds a winning culture and Team chemistry for the long term among the long-term core of Players with intention of making the Team more competitive in 4 years.
    Personally, I think you accomplish this by drafting proven winners. A lot of talk about Markelle Fultz not being a winner, about Lonzo Ball getting worked in the tourney, etc. But when you get down the board and you look at guys like Justin Jackson who may not be as shiny, you can make that pick with confidence because he's going to bring a winning attitude to your franchise. Add that to Myles Turner, who has been in the playoffs his first two NBA seasons, and you can maintain the discipline and demeanor it takes to win when the time comes.

    Draft a bunch of flashy athletes from Nowhere State University that haven't won anything, and you wind up talking about potential for 10 years and it's never realized.

    For everyone talking about scorched earth and the Seattle Pacers, I'm still very confident that our mix of: #1 -a potential All Star in Turner, #2 -this year's solid draft (where I'd like to get an extra first rounder), #3 -the potential to get any kind of value out of PG, and #4 - contracts that will be off the Pacers' books within the next season - is a recipe to suffer for two years and be back in the playoffs on the upswing by year 3, with young talent on rookie deals. And that's how you attract a free agent. By having loads of winning young talent and cap space. Location be damned.
    It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

  18. #38
    Peace Dog D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    Personally, I think you accomplish this by drafting proven winners. A lot of talk about Markelle Fultz not being a winner, about Lonzo Ball getting worked in the tourney, etc. But when you get down the board and you look at guys like Justin Jackson who may not be as shiny, you can make that pick with confidence because he's going to bring a winning attitude to your franchise. Add that to Myles Turner, who has been in the playoffs his first two NBA seasons, and you can maintain the discipline and demeanor it takes to win when the time comes.

    Draft a bunch of flashy athletes from Nowhere State University that haven't won anything, and you wind up talking about potential for 10 years and it's never realized.

    For everyone talking about scorched earth and the Seattle Pacers, I'm still very confident that our mix of: #1 -a potential All Star in Turner, #2 -this year's solid draft (where I'd like to get an extra first rounder), #3 -the potential to get any kind of value out of PG, and #4 - contracts that will be off the Pacers' books within the next season - is a recipe to suffer for two years and be back in the playoffs on the upswing by year 3, with young talent on rookie deals. And that's how you attract a free agent. By having loads of winning young talent and cap space. Location be damned.
    Our current draft position won't get a difference maker and I don't think any PG deal will either. We're going to be looking at something like:

    Clarkson
    Lance
    GRIII
    Myles
    Randle

    Picks 16 & 28 off the bench (perhaps another low 1st for Thad off the bench)

    Now, this would allow us to be bad enough next year to hopefully draft top five and target another young difference maker in next year's draft. So that's fine. I just don't see PG netting us much more than what's included here.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  19. #39
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Our current draft position won't get a difference maker and I don't think any PG deal will either. We're going to be looking at something like:

    Clarkson
    Lance
    GRIII
    Myles
    Randle

    Picks 16 & 28 off the bench (perhaps another low 1st for Thad off the bench)

    Now, this would allow us to be bad enough next year to hopefully draft top five and target another young difference maker in next year's draft. So that's fine. I just don't see PG netting us much more than what's included here.
    Oh I agree. That's why I say this year, in a draft loaded with solid role players, just go for the high-floor, even if they aren't high-ceiling, and that to me would be a kid from a winning program like Justin Jackson or Luke Kennard or even Jordan Bell (a little later than 18). Keep drafting guys who have the right attitude and winning habits, with high bball-IQ. Then throw them on the court together to learn and grow and build chemistry, and also lose enough games to go after the real difference makers with a higher pick in the next year or two.
    It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

  20. #40
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    I think that this coming year is a lost year. No big signings. Play the ones you have. Get a top three pick next year and then really start going after good veteran players.
    One down year and then start the uphill climb. Draft dedicated, talented players.
    I am totally against the Philly model.
    {o,o}
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  21. #41
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    I really want to get a pick in the 5-10 range plus the 18. OG and Caleb in a trade down with Portland for their two picks or just trade PG to Portland for their two picks.
    {o,o}
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    -"-"-

  22. #42
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    Draft a bunch of flashy athletes from Nowhere State University that haven't won anything, and you wind up talking about potential for 10 years and it's never realized.
    You mean like Pacers draft picks Kawhi Leonard and Paul George?

  23. #43
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    You mean like Pacers draft picks Kawhi Leonard and Paul George?
    Few people saw the potential in Kawhi to become what he is today, and he did come from a team that had been successful that year, and go to a program that is one of the best in NBA history.

    PG was selected #10 overall, which is quite a bit different than our pick at 18 this year. We took a shot and it worked.

    My point is, when you're starting a rebuild and you don't currently have a top-10 pick, I think it's wise to draft players who project as solid rotational players or starters and let them play right away, to learn and grown. In that time, you can expect losses, which gives you the opportunity to swing for the fences with a higher draft pick.

    Taking gambles at pick 18, year after year, is a recipe for failure. Picking athletes from losing programs is how you get a losing culture for your franchise. We need to pick solid basketball players with winning mindsets and habits right now, and the opportunity to pick a star will come in the next year or two. This would be my philosophy any year, but especially this year, with a draft that's well-stocked with winning rotational players, but sorta light on franchise-changing mega stars.
    It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

  24. #44
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    Get a top three pick next year
    To do that we would either have to win the lottery (at which I laugh most derisively) or be worse than the team has been in 3 full decades and THEN still have a chance of getting bumped to 4th.

    Think about that. Very few people around here have any memory of the Pacers being that bad. I note that most of the ones advocating blowing off the season are the ones with no such memory.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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  26. #45

    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Al Jefferson
    Monta Ellis
    Joe Young
    Georges Niang
    Rakeem Christmas
    Myles Turner
    Lavoy Allen
    Thaddeus Young
    Lance Stephenson

    That is the least talented team in the NBA. I know there's draft picks coming in & cap space available but we are destined for a top 5 pick next year. A legitimate shot at the top pick Michael Porter.

  27. #46
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Think about that. Very few people around here have any memory of the Pacers being that bad. I note that most of the ones advocating blowing off the season are the ones with no such memory.
    Give me a break. I've seen this angle before from some other posters and I've got to say, quit be so over dramatic! The Cubs have been bottom feeders for most of my fandom and that hasn't killed my interest in them. You act like nobodies even been through losing seasons before...

  28. #47
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    To do that we would either have to win the lottery (at which I laugh most derisively) or be worse than the team has been in 3 full decades and THEN still have a chance of getting bumped to 4th.

    Think about that. Very few people around here have any memory of the Pacers being that bad. I note that most of the ones advocating blowing off the season are the ones with no such memory.
    I am as old as you are so I remember. I am not advocating tanking but I would not put a lot of effort this year into signing any middling players. What a waste.
    Now if a star wants to sign here, great. Otherwise....
    {o,o}
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  29. #48
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    Give me a break. I've seen this angle before from some other posters and I've got to say, quit be so over dramatic! The Cubs have been bottom feeders for most of my fandom and that hasn't killed my interest in them. You act like nobodies even been through losing seasons before...
    Every losing team does not become the Cubs - and I really don't think anyone is going to be sold on "Wait 100 years and the Pacers will win a championship" marketing. Never mind the fact that the NBA is not MLB in pretty much any way that it draws fans.

    And there is a big difference between winning in the mid 30s and winning in the high teens or low 20s. It will make the JOB years look like people were celebrating.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

  30. #49
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    I am as old as you are so I remember. I am not advocating tanking but I would not put a lot of effort this year into signing any middling players. What a waste.
    Now if a star wants to sign here, great. Otherwise....
    I think we need a team that is clearly giving effort and playing the best players on the floor. The problem is that that kind of team defies expectations and usually doesn't lose enough games to get that "guaranteed" top-3 pick - certainly not in multiple consecutive seasons. If the FO manipulates the players available in order to lose enough games, the fanbase will turn on them very quickly - the IDEA of tanking for the first pick pales pretty fast after losing the lottery multiple times or even getting that #1 pick in a weak year. After a hundred games or so of being pathetic no one wants to watch it.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

  31. #50
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    Default Re: What do you want us to do now? MF ( no longer K ) Pacers Doomsday version PT 2

    Full rebuild. Tear it down to the studs and remake it in Pritchard's image. Trade Thad for a draft pick, let CJ and Teague walk (same goes for LaVoy and Aaron Brooks), keep Al and Monta (no need to attach assets to their corpses to clear cap space for this season). Only pieces worthwhile in the long term are GRIII, Myles and Lance plus whatever assets the team can acquire via the PG and Thad trades, plus our draft picks. I'll be in the minority, but I will see more games with this squad. $6 balconies and plenty of seats to move up this year? Plus Lance trying to murder the game of basketball every night. Sign me up.

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