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Thread: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    I went up to Fundamentals to view the new basketball links Hicks has put up. Check them out! As Pacer fans we are blessed to have someone like Hicks as a fellow fan! This site Rocks! Thank you Hicks!

    While there I clicked on, Pacers.com "Bird's Eye View" to see if there were any new Bird articles. There wasn't, but in reading a question and answer session I had read before I came on to a statement by Bird that will most assuredly impact the Pacers draft. In answer to the 5th question down he says in part,

    A. I’d like to get a team that runs a little more. I think basketball has gotten a little boring throughout the league because of half court offenses and coaches calling the plays. I would like to have an up-tempo team that gets out and moves the basketball from inside-out around the perimeter so guys will have better looks at the basket. My job is to try to build a team that the fans like and also win games.

    We no doubt discussed the whole article here on the digest when the article first came out, but it occurred to me that his view as expressed here will impact who he drafts and trades for.

    There were reports he offered Artest for Peja last year, so it appears he's willing to trade Artest if he can get a good player that can run. Joe Johnson, and Ray Allen, can certainly run. So can Michael Redd, but I doubt Bird would want to play against Artest more than twice a year, and Redd's in our division.

    I'm thinking Foster and either Jackson/Artest gets offered to Phoenix for Joe Johnson in some sort of package. Of course that trade would probably work better salary wise for Shawn Marion, someone else who can run.

    The more I think about it the more I think Phoenix would be a likely trade partner especially if Foster and Marion were part of the trade. With Foster playing center they could move Amare Stoudemire to his natural position of power forward which is where Marion is now playing. Phoenix wouldn't miss Marion.

    I'll go look at the numbers and see what trades would work.

  2. #2
    Banned Fool's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    That is not RC basketball.

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    Harmonica
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Well, if it's Marion, it's goodbye Ron. If it's Johnson, it's goodbye Stephen. I like the latter better than the former, but I can't see the Suns parting with their JJ. And boy do they desperately need defense. Question is, would they take a chance on Ron?

  4. #4

    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    I don't know why if we wanted to run more we'd get rid of Jeff Foster who runs the floor about as well as any center.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    My first thought was, when does Rick's contract end.......

    My second was, so that secures Tinsley's spot
    and then I went on and having just read that Phoenix will match any offer to Johnson, even a max and that makes Tins more secure, a Euro PG 2nd more likely and watch out for SJax to be moved, but that were all things I already said a few times, so what's new.

    Dealing Allen for anything included Ron will not be a very likely trade, so alternatives, and keep in mind that LB not so secretely like Tins, and Ron and is not very likely to touch JO unless Shaq TD or KG comes available.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Foster won't fit well with the Suns. 90% of their offense is pick and rolls with Nash and Amare. In order for that to be as effective as it was this past season they need three good shooters spacing the floor. Jeff won't help in that area. Unless of course they just want Jeff to come off the bench and play 10 minutes. Jeff can run, so maybe I'm wrong

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Foster, Jackson, and Gill, for Marion works under the CBA that's now in place. So does Foster and Artest for Marion.

    I didn't do Johnson because he's restricted. If he was traded his contract would be adjusted to work for who ever he was traded for.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    I don't know why if we wanted to run more we'd get rid of Jeff Foster who runs the floor about as well as any center.
    That's true, but you have to give to get. Getting Foster would be the only reason Phoneix would want to do the deal.

    From what I read Joe Johnson is probably untouchable, but I hear Marion can be had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Foster won't fit well with the Suns. 90% of their offense is pick and rolls with Nash and Amare. In order for that to be as effective as it was this past season they need three good shooters spacing the floor. Jeff won't help in that area. Unless of course they just want Jeff to come off the bench and play 10 minutes. Jeff can run, so maybe I'm wrong
    Yes, but how far did that take them this past year? They need a bit better defence. Foster and Jackson, or Foster and Artest could give them more defence.

    One other thing, Foster plays Tim Duncan really well.

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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    My feeling is that, if San Antonio catches wind of a Jeff Foster to Phoenix trade, they'll also enter the mix.
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    My feeling is that, if San Antonio catches wind of a Jeff Foster to Phoenix trade, they'll also enter the mix.
    That would be interesting!

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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    I would love to see more of a West Coast offense here! As much as I lve good defense, I have to agree with Ron when it comes to our offense.
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    I would love to see more of a West Coast offense here! As much as I lve good defense, I have to agree with Ron when it comes to our offense.
    (See somebody had to interject that name )

    So does Bird!

    "I think basketball has gotten a little boring throughout the league because of half court offenses and coaches calling the plays."

    Yet he picked a coach that plays just that way.

  12. #12

    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Why so quick to defect Jeff Foster? I always thought he was a fan favorite (especially to this fan right here).

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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    I think Jeff Foster is our most tradeable player, for that very reason. We like him (in the right role), every team in the league could use a player like him, and his contract is reasonable.

    If any team will take one of our problems or make a move that will help us; they're going to insist on getting Jeff in return.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    I still maintain that running is a coaching issue and not a personnel one. We've got the people to run, Rick just doesn't run them.

    I'm really hoping we push for Ray Allen. And move Austin and Bender for peanuts.
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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Am I the only one who noticed our offense opening up and become a little faster up until 11/19?

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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Am I the only one who noticed our offense opening up and become a little faster up until 11/19?
    Unfortunately, I don't think that 7 games at the beginning of the season really mean all that much. Yes it was a little quicker, but other teams were not yet "tuned in."

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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Am I the only one who noticed our offense opening up and become a little faster up until 11/19?
    No, we discussed it at the time. You're definitely right. I guess on nights you only have 6 players you probably don't want to run the whole time. And running's hard when your players aren't used to each other. So this would have been a rough season to do much running.

    We'll see what happens this fall.
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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    No, we discussed it at the time. You're definitely right. I guess on nights you only have 6 players you probably don't want to run the whole time. And running's hard when your players aren't used to each other. So this would have been a rough season to do much running.

    We'll see what happens this fall.
    I wouldn't be surprised at all if the offense looks like it did at the beginning of last season once this one gets going. I think he scrapped the changes he'd made over the summer once the **** hit the fan and we started playing 20 different people.

  19. #19
    foretaz
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I wouldn't be surprised at all if the offense looks like it did at the beginning of last season once this one gets going. I think he scrapped the changes he'd made over the summer once the **** hit the fan and we started playing 20 different people.

    absofriggenlutely.....and even late in the season u saw an offense that involved ball movement around the perimeter(partly because we had no inside presence)....this is why i say this past season isnt the greatest barometer for things....

    we never had our whole team intact...ever...the closest we came were in the few games leading up to the brawl game and even then....jo missed a game and ron missed two and jeff was out as well as bender....

    this team, as far as the future was concerned, was built last summer like this...

    artest and jo at the forwards....jeff at the center....jax and jt at the guards.... bender and f. jones the two main guys off the bench....

    the type of game that u can play with that team is exactly what bird was talking about....you have a team if they wanted to could play similar to phoenix offensively, yet be as good a defensive team as their is in the league...

    now, take a look at that core and see what injuries and suspensions did to that team and u can see why i basically say u can throw the season out the window...

    i think they will definitely make individual decisions regarding certain players but i dont think the formula will change much...

    i think they were really looking for bender to blossom with als departure and a somewhat new team approach....as bird says he cant count on bender, but u could see where jj might take the place of benders production-maybe....he also will utilize this last season to see if he really feels the core players have the skills to perform in the system as he sees it...

    any changes made will tell us what his final takes were on these reviews...but i really think this is the basic formula he has for the team....

    and while, at first glance, it would appear that rick doesnt coach that way...the team was different prior to the brawl...and was also much different after....and rick was applauded for his abilities...

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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    For this to work, JO really needs to learn how to pass the ball...
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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    I just have a question.

    How does Jermaine O'Neal fit into a free flowing offense? Doesn't he need the half court set to maximize his abilities?


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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I just have a question.

    How does Jermaine O'Neal fit into a free flowing offense? Doesn't he need the half court set to maximize his abilities?

    If he'll run the floor, he can take the ball off the break and slam it home...thus giving himself ample opportunities to posture for the cameras (note tongue firmly planted...kinda).
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  23. #23
    foretaz
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I just have a question.

    How does Jermaine O'Neal fit into a free flowing offense? Doesn't he need the half court set to maximize his abilities?
    though i ve tried to forget all the zeke years remember jermaine flourished....jermaine is a tremendous athlete....he is a bit heavier in the form of muscle nowadays....however jermaine has the ability to get up and down the floor better than most of his counterparts....back when zeke was here, he wasnt a far cry from the way amare plays in that regards....in fact i think u could make a lot of comparisons to the type of season amare had and the type of season jo had a couple back....to me the similarities are striking...

    to me that is what makes them both so valuable...they can play both ways-slow or up and down...with ricks presence his first year u saw jo bulk up and play mostly the low post game-rick didnt have much in the way of up and down game...

    this year however we got a glimpse of interjecting some of that before all hell broke loose....and we didnt have the bodies to do it the rest of the year...

    you look at the core players on this team...jo, artest, jack, and jt....they all have a great ability to play both ways....giviing us a tremendous amount of flexibility and versatility to attack opposing teams....

  24. #24
    foretaz
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    For this to work, JO really needs to learn how to pass the ball...
    actually....yes and no...i know what u mean...but let me say this...

    passing the ball requires more vision than ability...and more opportunity than vision...at this level they all know how to pass the ball....

    you have to have a teammate in position to receive the ball and u have to have the knowledge that he will be there and then the vision to find him....

    in fairness to jo, the coaching staff, and his teammates....this season is not a good barometer for that....after nov. 19, everything was makeshift and doing the best with what u can...the type of offense we are somewhat describing when it comes to the half court and passing back out of the post for something other than a repost is much more complicated and requires many, more repetitions ....ur talking about off the ball screening, back cuts and away from the ball movement....that then has to be so familiar that jo just instinctively knows where to go with the ball....once all hell broke loose....as far as iim concerned that option was gone for the remainder of the season...and the pacers just had to do the best they could with very simplistic sets...

    its hard to get any rhythm when the players that are availabe are so constantly changing....and this type of offense requires tons and tons of work together....

  25. #25
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Bird statement that will most likely impact draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I just have a question.

    How does Jermaine O'Neal fit into a free flowing offense? Doesn't he need the half court set to maximize his abilities?
    I remember him scoring in the high 20s 3 or more times before 11/19 in the "faster" offense.

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