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Thread: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

  1. #26
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    You realize none of that is practical, right?

    Would you like your employer to tell you to take a 25% pay cut "for your own career?" These are adults, not children. I'm guessing pie in the sky logic is a hard sell.
    I realize it's not practical in the current climate. At least not until the bubble bursts and these unsustainable salaries and other problems (like corporate welfare to support sports palaces and unsustainable $$$ TV contracts) cause the inevitable implosion.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I realize it's not practical in the current climate. At least not until the bubble bursts and these unsustainable salaries and other problems (like corporate welfare to support sports palaces and unsustainable $$$ TV contracts) cause the inevitable implosion.
    ...at which point, players will take a forceable pay cut and still play 82 games.

    It doesn't matter whether the NBA is making money or losing it. You don't give up 25% of what you're currently making.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  3. #28
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...at which point, players will take a forceable pay cut and still play 82 games.

    It doesn't matter whether the NBA is making money or losing it. You don't give up 25% of what you're currently making.
    When the money is not there... the money is not there...
    This monopoly money game they are playing right now is destined to fail sooner or later. It's not sustainable.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    When the money is not there... the money is not there...
    This monopoly money game they are playing right now is destined to fail sooner or later. It's not sustainable.
    But that's not the issue here.

    The NBA has an 82 game schedule. They have had one for 50 years. Just like subtracting teams is out of the question, subtracting games from the schedule is also out of the question. If the tv revenue dries up it won't be because of the schedule, it'll be because of economics. You may as well argue that the 3 point line needs is costing them money and dunking is costing them money. It simply has nothing to do with it. And if/when it does happen, their first move will not be to slash 25% off the remaining revenue they have left.

    Btw, don't count on the bubble bursting anytime soon. The next tv deal will be significantly lower but internet revenue will be significantly higher. The fans aren't vanishing they are simply consuming the product though different means. ESPN's problem isn't that people stopped watching ESPN. It's that people no longer want broadcast subscriptions that happen to include ESPN.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-11-2017 at 12:18 AM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Maybe start the season a month earlier to eliminate back-to-backs, and allow players more rest between games.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Maybe start the season a month earlier to eliminate back-to-backs, and allow players more rest between games.
    ...and now you're asking players to give up a month of their offseason, and he NBA to have a larger chunk of their games compete directly with the NFL season.

    They'd love not to have any back to backs, but not at that cost.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-11-2017 at 01:51 AM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...and now you're asking players to give up a month of their offseason, and he NBA to have a larger chunk of their games compete directly with the NFL season.

    They'd love not to have any back to backs, but not at that cost.
    Training camp / preseason still starts at the same time, just start the regular season 2-3 weeks sooner. Have 4 preseason games (max) instead of 12

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    Training camp / preseason still starts at the same time, just start the regular season 2-3 weeks sooner. Have 4 preseason games (max) instead of 12
    ...you realize training camp is only 4 weeks long, right? They play 8 preseason games, not 12.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  9. #34
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    But that's not the issue here.

    The NBA has an 82 game schedule. They have had one for 50 years. Just like subtracting teams is out of the question, subtracting games from the schedule is also out of the question. If the tv revenue dries up it won't be because of the schedule, it'll be because of economics. You may as well argue that the 3 point line needs is costing them money and dunking is costing them money. It simply has nothing to do with it. And if/when it does happen, their first move will not be to slash 25% off the remaining revenue they have left.

    Btw, don't count on the bubble bursting anytime soon. The next tv deal will be significantly lower but internet revenue will be significantly higher. The fans aren't vanishing they are simply consuming the product though different means. ESPN's problem isn't that people stopped watching ESPN. It's that people no longer want broadcast subscriptions that happen to include ESPN.
    I guess everything is perfect and even if it's not, there's no way to fix it because the players might not like it. And we can't risk angering the players because they might go play for less money elsewhere.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  10. #35

    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...you realize training camp is only 4 weeks long, right? They play 8 preseason games, not 12.
    Yea. 12 was just a number thrown out. Cut the preseason games in half from 8 to 4 (max*).

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I guess everything is perfect and even if it's not, there's no way to fix it because the players might not like it. And we can't risk angering the players because they might go play for less money elsewhere.
    It all boils down to if the public decides the product is not worth their time. I doubt that happens even if the quality of game has declined because many either don't know any better or because the nation of potential viewers increases and that especially means international fans who don't even know any better as they are relatively new to the sport.

    Guys like Silver who do know and I think care about the quality of the product will talk a lot but money talks louder. This isn't about whether the product is poor though. It is about money. That will dictate things although the owners will occasionally use their trump card to show who is really the boss. You could see more of that with the next CBA because even many of them are getting embarrassed by the current state of the league.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    let's do better Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    could just add a calendar month or so to the season, incorporate an extra 4 weeks of down timethrough out the year. I don't now how or if that'd be something the networks would be into, but I think they'd at least be extremely amenable to the discussion. we're a week away from the dead Summer period where it's nothing but baseball. baseball's dying and becoming more and more regional since it's not really an "event" sport, not in the summer anyway. push the draft a month back, add 4 weeks of free agency and WHERE'S PAUL GEORGE GONNA PLAY NEXT YEAR!?. there's really only two Major Sports now, no reason the NBA shouldn't follow the NFL's lead and never really have a true offseason.

    would anyone complain about never having a 3 in 5 week again?

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    Pacer fan since 1993 Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Right now there are several times per year where they play back to backs then two weeks later have nearly the entire week off, simply do a better job of scheduling, no cutting out days, no need to rest stars on the 2nd night of a back to back if there are no back to backs.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    Right now there are several times per year where they play back to backs then two weeks later have nearly the entire week off, simply do a better job of scheduling, no cutting out days, no need to rest stars on the 2nd night of a back to back if there are no back to backs.
    never gonna happen. the vast majority (all of em, right?) of NBA arenas host events that aren't NBA games. they gotta schedule almost 2500 games and then what, at least hundreds of concerts/conventions/monster truck rallies/awards shows/wrestling matches/whatever the hell, a ton of those with standing contracts guaranteeing a date like the Bulls having to take a multi-week road trip every year for the circus.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I guess everything is perfect and even if it's not, there's no way to fix it because the players might not like it. And we can't risk angering the players because they might go play for less money elsewhere.
    In the real world you cannot change things collectively bargained just because you feel you can get away with it. Labor laws do not work that way.

    It's like saying the owners should wake up one day and all agree to pay the players no more than a few million a year, because "it's not like they will get more elsewhere." That's not logic that can be applied to actual real life.

    The NBA would love to eliminate back to backs. So would the players. Everything has been stretched out as much as possible. It's not as simple as saying "everyone just plays every other day." This isn't a video game. Owners have other uses for those arenas they have to consider and players simply do not want to subtract time from their offseason. You also have to have training camp. Regardless of how you feel about preseason, the players can't just show up after a summer off and play the season a week later. That will just lead to more injuries and worse basketball.

    The latest schedule change gave players nearly a full week off for the all star game. That little spring break isn't going anywhere either. Players love vacation time more than they hate back to backs.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-11-2017 at 07:55 AM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    I do wish they would extend the season, mostly because I get so bored with the lack of sports this time of year. Even that though would probably have a small impact on players resting until it became the new normal and we would be right back where we are. It's great that Silver is trying to give the appearance of addressing the issue to his sponsors, but there really isn't any legislation the NBA can introduce that will make a difference. Players have to want to play. Anything that doesn't address that in some way, doesn't actually address the issue.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Here's the dumbest part of all - the point of resting is to ensure that players are HEALTHY and in TOP FORM when they do play. I once bought a very expensive 2nd row ticket to see the Heat vs Pacers specifically to see Shaq up close. I had been the 2000 Finals and other games but I had never seen him in action from really close. The game prior he got injured. I then famously sued the NBA for my busted feelings and have since retired....

    If only they'd trotted Shaq out in a cast to at least take the jump and maybe play a few token minutes, then I would have "seen Shaq play" and the NBA wouldn't have written that huge check to me.


    Jesus this topic brings out the sarcasm in me. I'd apologize but its just so monumentally stupid and a fake problem. Now all we will get is a bunch of fake strains and pulls instead of Pop-like honesty. Fans will still miss seeing their favorite players but they will still get to see the teams, which have their names written on the ticket they bought. If your choice is seeing the Spurs with Leonard sitting or a Sixers game....maybe appreciate the full team and the quality of the product rather than a name.


    Also Broadway has understudies and I don't believe that warrants refunds either. Hell, a whole bunch of fans just had to watch the end of the IndyCar Texas race with only 10 cars running due to wrecks. MONEY BACK PLEASE! (cue money asking hand gesture)

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Jesus this topic brings out the sarcasm in me. I'd apologize but its just so monumentally stupid and a fake problem.
    Same. Manufactured outrage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Now all we will get is a bunch of fake strains and pulls instead of Pop-like honesty.
    2nd point to seth. If you try and force coaches to play players they want to rest, they will simply no longer be listed as healthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    If your choice is seeing the Spurs with Leonard sitting or a Sixers game....maybe appreciate the full team and the quality of the product rather than a name.
    ...and those fans would turn around and tell you the product is terrible and not worth watching aside from that one player they wanted to see, in which case they're just lying through their teeth and you should probably just ignore them.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    I don't care if players rest and I understand why, but Jordan does get major GOAT points for playing all 82 games every season of the second three-peat when he was in his 30's. Like Bill Russel said, that's what was most impressive about Jordan - he was determined to be Jordan every night. He knew in every arena that there were people who were getting their one and only live look at him. The ultimate showman.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 06-11-2017 at 02:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Wilt went an entire season without being substituted. He got tossed with 8 minutes left in one game and that was the only game action he missed the entire season. He averaged 48.5 minutes per game that year because of a few that went to OT.

    Think of a 7'1" 300-lb center playing every minute in a league where pace of play was nearly 30% faster than it is today. I don't know how his knees held up for one week of that, let alone a full season.

    Wilt never averaged less than 42 minutes during any given year. His final season at age 36, he played all 82 games and averaged over 43 minutes.

    I think Wilt may have been born 100 years before his time, because 55 years later we still haven't seen anything like him.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-11-2017 at 02:36 PM.

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  23. #46
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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    The fact that the NBA is encouraging teams to rest their players at home essentially concedes that the NBA is a star driven league and markets players over teams (a lot of this is the nature of basketball which lends itself to individual accomplishment more than other sports). I can't imagine mediocre or worse small market teams like it when star players rest in their city - it probably deprives ownership of one of their few good gates a year.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    The fact that the NBA is encouraging teams to rest their players at home essentially concedes that the NBA is a star driven league and markets players over teams (a lot of this is the nature of basketball which lends itself to individual accomplishment more than other sports). I can't imagine mediocre or worse small market teams like it when star players rest in their city - it probably deprives ownership of one of their few good gates a year.
    It concedes that star players are making over $30-40 million now and their teams are protecting that investment as much as possible.

    NBA teams counting on "gate" to make money is an outdated concept anyway. ticket revenue is insignificant next to TV revenue now. The NBA wants to keep their TV partners happy way more than they want to keep the fans buying tickets happy, though in the end they're going to try to address both.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-11-2017 at 02:29 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It concedes that star players are making over $30-40 million now and their teams are protecting that investment as much as possible.

    NBA teams counting on "gate" to make money is an outdated concept anyway. ticket revenue is insignificant next to TV revenue now. The NBA wants to keep their TV partners happy way more than they want to keep the fans buying tickets happy, though in the end they're going to try to address both.
    Yeah, as a fan of a small market team that is relatively frugal, I'm happy for every dollar the Pacers can make regardless of its share as a source of overall revenue.

    Again, the league emphasizing resting players at home shows the attendance and revenue these players are capable of attracting when they go on the road. There is nothing wrong with this.
    Last edited by idioteque; 06-11-2017 at 03:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It concedes that star players are making over $30-40 million now and their teams are protecting that investment as much as possible.

    NBA teams counting on "gate" to make money is an outdated concept anyway. ticket revenue is insignificant next to TV revenue now. The NBA wants to keep their TV partners happy way more than they want to keep the fans buying tickets happy, though in the end they're going to try to address both.
    On the highlighted part, I agree. More and more, it's not about the fans. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when neither the NBA owners or players care about the fans. Some fans recognize that and are voting with their feet. Many are not, either fine with things or ignorant of the issues.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Silver says new rest guidelines will emphasize rest at home, not multiple stars on same night

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    My suggestion is this: we know what the schedule is months before the season ever begins. Give teams a deadline to inform the NBA of the home dates their stars will be "resting" so they can coordinate appropriately with their TV partners, and fans won't feel cheated buying those tickets with the knowledge that they probably won't see a full roster. It doesn't mean those players will be banned from playing in those games, but it gives people a warning that they might not.
    I think this is the best solution. The schedule comes out in the beginning of August. By the end of August, teams should have to tell the league what games the players are resting in so the ticket buying public can know as well. I would add a couple of caveats:

    1. There needs to be a limit on how many games a player can rest (five seems right to me, but that's me)
    2. Their doesn't need to be any notification for the last two games, unless you're a non-playoff team playing a team fighting for a playoff spot. What the Nets did last year in Game 82 shouldn't be allowed.

    I actually don't have a problem with players resting on the road. But they shouldn't be allowed to rest if that's the only time they visit that city.
    #DBAP

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