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Thread: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

  1. #126
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The NBA owned the Hornets at the time and voided it because it was a terrible long term deal and made the team harder to sell. The NBA has never unilaterally voided a deal because of "fairness" issues. The clippers offered far cheaper, better rebuilding materials.

    Also, Kevin Durant was a free agent, not a trade. If the NBA tried to tell a player "you can't play there because you're too good," they would get sued by the union and skinned alive.
    That and the NBA was getting a lot of flack because to many it looked like a conspiracy by the NBA to keep the Lakers relevant. So instead they traded him to the other LA team, which to me still looks very conspiratorial, but it seemed to quiet most people.

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  3. #127
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I felt the same but that was mostly because we sucked and that sucked my motivation to watch basketball as a whole. The season was probably quite fun for fans of other teams
    Pavers weren't likable this last year. You can have a bad team that plays hard and had some positive intrigue. Our players seemed vaguely disinterested. You know it's bad when Lance was a big highlight because he brought effort.
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  5. #128

    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogco View Post
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    Pavers weren't likable this last year. You can have a bad team that plays hard and had some positive intrigue. Our players seemed vaguely disinterested. You know it's bad when Lance was a big highlight because he brought effort.
    Said this 1000x this season. I would rather have a bunch of hard working guys who care & win 38 games & miss the playoffs (like the Miami Heat this season) than what we had. Nobody cared at all. That's a main reason I was pushing for the PG trade in February. If PG would've been traded this team woulda came together.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    Said this 1000x this season. I would rather have a bunch of hard working guys who care & win 38 games & miss the playoffs (like the Miami Heat this season) than what we had. Nobody cared at all. That's a main reason I was pushing for the PG trade in February. If PG would've been traded this team woulda came together.
    Something has to be going on. Every year we hear about chemistry issues and there is only two players left from when we first starting hearing about this

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogco View Post
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    Pavers weren't likable this last year. You can have a bad team that plays hard and had some positive intrigue. Our players seemed vaguely disinterested. You know it's bad when Lance was a big highlight because he brought effort.
    I felt the same way about the Pistons. I didn't watch as much NBA as I normally do for that very reason. I was hate-watching them near the end.

    I think it does impact people's interest in the league as a whole if they don't like watching for that very reason.
    #DBAP

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    I think the NBA should have more parity (3-5 title contenders a year) but you really don't want parity to the extent that half the teams in the league are about equally as good as one another. There isn't enough elite talent to make that kind of product watchable, in fact it is more boring than the Warriors being dominant.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    NBA should try parity by firing and replacing **** front offices.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    NBA should try parity by firing and replacing **** front offices.
    the NBA does not own franchises. The individual owners do. The NBA works for the owners, not the other way around.

    It's the owner's responsibility to fire a front office.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  14. #134
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    They could, but they cannot run the league without a labor agreement. We have laws governing that.
    The NBA doesn't have to have a CBA to run the league. They would get guys crossing the picket lines if they held out long enough. They could have whatever they want but as you say they are fine because they are getting loads of money.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The NBA doesn't have to have a CBA to run the league. They would get guys crossing the picket lines if they held out long enough. They could have whatever they want but as you say they are fine because they are getting loads of money.
    They don't have to have a CBA if they don't have a salary cap, a max contract, draft, etc. etc. If players and teams were freely allowed to pay however much they want and go where they want without any rules in place they could play with a CBA. Otherwise it is known as collusion which is illegal in the US, and the NBA would run into a bunch of anti-trust/anti-monopoly laws that would shut it down rather quickly. The CBA is required by law if the NBA wants to operate under the rules it currently operates under.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    There's nothing to fix that time and circumstance can't fix. The NBA is not broken. The NBA has had teams sweep their way to the Finals before it's just that some on this board are too young to remember.

    2000- 2001 Lakers went 11-0 on their way to the Finals and only lost 1 game. They swept Portland, Sacramento, and San Antonio. They only lost one game in the Finals against the Sixers and it took 46 points from Allen Iverson and overtime to do it. The Lakers looked as unstoppable as GSW that year.

    1990-91 Bulls went 15-2 losing only once against Charles Barkley's Sixers in the second round and they swept the defending champs, Detroit Pistons before beating the Lakers 4-1.

    1982-83 Sixers only lost one game on their way to a championship beating good teams like the Bucks and Sweeping Magic, Kareem, and the Lakers. Moses Malone, a superstar who had previously won an MVP award with the Rockets, joined the Sixers to form a Super Team. Sound familiar?

    My point is that there are multiple things that could derail these seemingly unstoppable juggernauts. In the past it's been injuries and free agency. It's very hard to keep a championship team in tact for more than 3-4 years. You think Draymond Green is going to continue being happy with his limited role? They owe Steph a Max contract this summer. Will they have to let Shawn Livingston go? Will they let Andre Iguodala and Ian Clark just walk if they receive an offer higher than what they can stomach? They have a HUGE luxury tax bill waiting for them this year. Any of these changes can mess up their chemistry. KD could injury his foot again. Steph's ankle issues could resurface due to all the mileage from these multiple long playoffs runs.

    The Cavs probably won't be the same next year either. They have a bunch of aging veterans on that team. Injuries kept them from winning in 2015 and it could keep them from even advancing to the Finals next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see them pick up a coule more former all-stars this summer but they have zero cap space. Their window is closing fast.

    There's nothing broken in the NBA. These things are cyclical. The Bulls, Lakers, and Celtics dominance came to an end organically and so will Golden State's.

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  19. #137
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    @naptownmenace - The problem isn't the lack of parity. In fact, some of the best periods in the NBA were times where there was very little parity. The lack of parity is a symptom of ONE of the problems in the NBA. Again, I hope I don't have to repeat this too often. The problem associated with the lack of parity is the way teams can be constructed under today's rules and today's norms.

    There are other problems I had listed in my OP. Lack of parity wasn't even one of them.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    While I'm not really happy with the state of play in the league today the one over riding concern is the super team issue.

    I can no longer invest so much of myself emotionally into a team that will not, in my life time, compete for a championship.

    The ratings and global interest might have never been sounder but as a fan of a small market, cold weather city's team I don't see how we can compete under the current structure.

    Kstat:

    You might know this off the top of your head. When Jordan had his two championship runs why didn't we draw some bigger name talent to Chicago?

    There was certainly HOF talent that could have gone to the Bulls to get a ring, Rodman not withstanding.

    Maybe the league should contract back to 24 teams.

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  23. #139
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    @naptownmenace - The problem isn't the lack of parity. In fact, some of the best periods in the NBA were times where there was very little parity. The lack of parity is a symptom of ONE of the problems in the NBA. Again, I hope I don't have to repeat this too often. The problem associated with the lack of parity is the way teams can be constructed under today's rules and today's norms.

    There are other problems I had listed in my OP. Lack of parity wasn't even one of them.
    How is your complaint about teams having a lack of talent and players forming super teams not about parity? It sounds like you're for more parity to me.

    I guess I'm one of the few people on this board that love the 3-pointer. There's nothing that should be done about it other than teams need to lean how to defend it better. We can blame Reggie Miller, Dan Marjerle, Dell Curry, Glen Rice, Dennis Scott, and Ray Allen for making it so popular. Just like Dr. J made the dunk what it became in the late 80s and 90s, what those guys did made kids of the early 2000s work on perfecting it.

    I don't have a problem with players recruiting other players to play with them. Danny Granger helped recruit David West to join the Pacers as they worked out in the offseason together. I would love it if PG13 could encourage an all-star free agent like Hayward or Chris Paul to join the team.

    Some teams are willing to pay a luxury tax to put together 3 or 4 max contract players. There's nothing unfair about free agency but it's apparent that some teams are much better at it than others. I can see how this could affect your opinion of the Pacers, especially if they continue with the strategy of signing former all-star (or no-star) players on the downside of their careers. They have to make a decision to cut the dead weight and go hard after some top talent. There won't be any changes made to the CBA Anytime soon. No hard salary cap will ever be agreed to even when the next negotiations begin so front offices need to make better decisions starting with shorter contracts and less money for non all-star players. What the Lakers and Trailblazers did this past summer is beyond idiotic.

    To be honest though, when people complain about all these things it just comes across as desperation. I don't think that the current state of the NBA is a reason for desperation. Maybe I'll feel differently after this offseason but right now, I'm content with waiting to see how this all plays out over the next 2 years.

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  25. #140
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Jordan did have one gift in Toni Kukoc. He was a fairly good player.

    Rodman was not a gift. Rodman was huge headache nobody in the league could handle, except for Phil Jackon. I am no fan of Phil Jackson, but getting Rodman to work on that team took a HOF coach and the GOAT.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    How is your complaint about teams having a lack of talent and players forming super teams not about parity? It sounds like you're for more parity to me.

    I guess I'm one of the few people on this board that love the 3-pointer. There's nothing that should be done about it other than teams need to lean how to defend it better. We can blame Reggie Miller, Dan Marjerle, Dell Curry, Glen Rice, Dennis Scott, and Ray Allen for making it so popular. Just like Dr. J made the dunk what it became in the late 80s and 90s, what those guys did made kids of the early 2000s work on perfecting it.
    ...
    "players forming" is really at the root of the issue. Players should be playing. GMs should be forming teams. I have no problem if a GM competes in the free market for talent via trades and the draft...and builds a totally dominant team. The issue is when players decide to centralize talent.

    It would be just as bad if 3 GMs got together and decided to make trades such that 1 of the 3 teams got all the talent. Kind of like a partnership where they share rings. For example, say Cavs, Spurs and the Pacers GMs agreed to share players. You'd have a team with LeBron, Kawhi, Paul George, Kyrie Irving and a bench full of near all-stars. That team wins the title and all 82 of their games. The other two teams lose all their games and have the #1 and #2 picks in the draft. They shift each year and completely dominate the league forever because they are getting all of the #1 and #2 picks and those players never want to leave the trinity of SUPAH TEAM.

    So, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Let the GMs collude, manipulate the league, cheat other teams and their fans. Anything wrong with that?
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    They don't have to have a CBA if they don't have a salary cap, a max contract, draft, etc. etc. If players and teams were freely allowed to pay however much they want and go where they want without any rules in place they could play with a CBA. Otherwise it is known as collusion which is illegal in the US, and the NBA would run into a bunch of anti-trust/anti-monopoly laws that would shut it down rather quickly. The CBA is required by law if the NBA wants to operate under the rules it currently operates under.
    You're right. The CBA is not for the protection of the players, it is for the protection of the owners. Without a CBA, the players would quickly get way more than 50% of the take. All it takes is one owner to try to outbid for a player and the floodgates are open.

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  29. #143
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    neither's ever gonna happen, but hard cap and no max salary.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Jordan did have one gift in Toni Kukoc. He was a fairly good player.
    They drafted Toni Kucoc. He was a 2nd round pick three years before they actually brought him over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    Kstat:

    You might know this off the top of your head. When Jordan had his two championship runs why didn't we draw some bigger name talent to Chicago?

    There was certainly HOF talent that could have gone to the Bulls to get a ring, Rodman not withstanding.
    Because the bulls were capped out from the beginning of the Jordan era to the end, and there was no mid level exemption.

    Jordan was literally making more than the entire salary cap his final two seasons.

    It took some serious screwing over of Scottie Pippen just to free up enough cash to sign Toni Kukoc (with Jordan retired and temporarily off the books), and even they came razor close to trading him several times rather than pay him what he was worth.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-12-2017 at 03:46 AM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    You're right. The CBA is not for the protection of the players, it is for the protection of the owners. Without a CBA, the players would quickly get way more than 50% of the take. All it takes is one owner to try to outbid for a player and the floodgates are open.
    The CBA protects the owners from anti-trust litigation. The NBA violates any number of labor laws but is exempt so long as it has a collectively bargained contract with the players union.

    The salary cap (part of the CBA) is what protects owners from themselves.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  34. #146
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    While I'm not really happy with the state of play in the league today the one over riding concern is the super team issue.

    I can no longer invest so much of myself emotionally into a team that will not, in my life time, compete for a championship.

    The ratings and global interest might have never been sounder but as a fan of a small market, cold weather city's team I don't see how we can compete under the current structure.

    This is the real problem with the NBA. All other issues are secondary.
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    This is the real problem with the NBA. All other issues are secondary.
    The underlying reasons that super teams exist need to be addressed to fix it. There are several parts to that including free agency. Additional measures to restrict that, in some way, are needed to prevent their formation.

    I think the the rules of the game need to be adjusted as well to reduce the use of the 3 pointer. Maybe get rid of corner 3's. The arc could intersect at the sideline maybe 12 feet from the baseline. But then it might just turn into a long free throw shooting game...even worse...lol
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    In general, I don't even think the NBA system is terribly broken. It took a complete fluke for Durant to fall in GS's lap with the salary cap rise. It was broken last year in that we had poor leadership on both sides who weren't able to see what could potentially happen in summer 2016. In addition to that, it took a mentality from Durant where he was OK with joining the team who he almost beat to go the Finals the prior year. The Durant thing was a fluke all around.

    I said this last week and know it won't be popular, but I think it's just too easy to make a ton of money once you get in the league. If you're a borderline rotational player like Solomon Hill, you're getting double digit millions a year. If you're a solid starter who can't sniff all star games like George Hill or Jeff Teague, you can potentially get paid an amount that is close to what the very best players in the league made not too long ago. Be Mike Conley and you're like the highest paid player ever. It used to be that the truly insane amounts of money were reserved for the very best. Not the case anymore. Just make the team and you're in line to make boatloads of obscene money. I think this will lead to continued complacency and slop in the coming years.

    The fact that we're paying Al Jefferson $10 million a year is truly mind boggling. What's the incentive for him at this point to really bust it when in one year he can make enough money to create generational wealth? I don't begrudge anyone for taking the money as they should, but the big money is just way too easy nowadays. It used to be a motivator for the best, but now all you really have to do is just stay in the league.

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  38. #149
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Getting rid of 3 pointers or eliminating the corner 3 are probably the dumbest 2 ideas I have ever heard. Might as well get rid of free throws too if you have that sort of mentality.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    NBA officiating can be very good, I don't think it is nearly as bad as some here do, but it can be really inconsistent too. How is KD pushing Lebron down when he was dunking it on that drive in the first half last night not a foul, but then Tristan Thompson (I think) barely bumping into Steph Curry 2 or 3 seconds after a shot was released (thereby having no impact on the shot itself) a foul? The NBA seems to criminalize defense at times, I understand they want the game to flow and be more offense driven, but at least be consistent with how you call things.

    I've always wondered why Allen Iverson didn't leave Philly earlier in his career and team up with someone else. Did he just have too much of the alpha mentality like Westbrook does know where he had to be the guy regardless? Was it just a money thing? Or better yet, why wasn't Philly able to sign someone in free agency around 2000-2001ish when the East was pretty wide open and it would have instantly made Philly the team to beat.

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