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Thread: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

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    Member BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    So, we are on the cusp of what might be the first team in NBA history to sweep through the playoffs and finals. There is at least one more game, so that could change. But I think we are about to see something special. Yes, even I said that because I recognize the historical aspect of it.

    Yet, there is something seriously wrong with the league and it's gotten worse over the last 10 years. Many fans are fine with it. They don't care if other teams have a level playing field for talent. They must just want to see jams and threes like I did when I was 5 years old. In any event, there are still a lot of viewers. The NBA is supposedly getting high ratings. While I find that questionable, I will accept that viewers in the US are fine with the current product for some reason or another.

    In any event, I have not seen as many dedicated Pacer fans disgusted with the state of the NBA than I have right now. You translate this to the millions of fans out there, and a lot of people are not happy with the state of the league.

    So, what are the problems? I'm thinking the emergence of the 3...the death of the big man, mid range shot, post up, etc. The rule changes where you can't touch players. The money...the big, huge money...that eliminates motivation. The collusion among players. The recruiting by star players. LeDecision and him joining with DWade and Bosh. His return to Cleveland at no cost to them...after they loaded up on draft picks and were in a great position to trade for talent. Dude has simply manipulated the league.

    Then there is the worst thing of all: Free Agency. Free agency where the #2 player in the league basically turns a legitimately built team into perhaps the best super team in history. Free agency justified by the idea that players should have mobility to quit one job and work for another employer. Yet the NBA is really just one employer in reality. All tied to the CBA, these are not independent franchises.

    I'm sure there are many other problems. But what are the solutions?
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    I think it's important to note that there's a difference between calling something broken and noting when someone is just upset when they see the new shiny toy that belongs to someone else and is told they can't have that and throws a tantrum, like I did when I was 5 years old...
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-09-2017 at 06:01 AM.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Why are people so dramatic about this?

    Fun season, playoffs kinda sucked. Things change fast in the NBA, things could be different next season.

    People need to chill out.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Warriors drafted all these guys & signed 1 guy in KD.

    I'm going to put my money on the next best super team being the Lakers. There was reports today that LeBron has interest in the Lakers & Clippers in 2018. If he goes to the Lakers in 2018 & teams up with Wade, Melo, PG & others LA will also still have Brandon Ingram, D'Angelo Russell, Larry Nance Jr., Zubac, Lonzo Ball & 28th this year already in place on their cheap rookie deals + next year's lottery pick.

    Lonzo Ball / D'Angelo Russell
    Paul George / Dwyane Wade
    Brandon Ingram / Carmelo Anthony
    LeBron James / Larry Nance Jr.
    Zubac / 28th pick this year
    2018 lottery pick
    4 other veteran minimum players/ring chasers

    NBA will not mind that. Sick team. If CP3 signs a 1-year deal this summer somewhere then I see summer 18 as a plan to get the banana boat team together. Add Chris Paul to that above lineup. It'd be over.
    Last edited by I Love P; 06-08-2017 at 11:47 PM.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Why are people so dramatic about this?

    Fun season, playoffs kinda sucked. Things change fast in the NBA, things could be different next season.

    People need to chill out.
    Fun season? For who?

    I found this to literally be one of the most boring non interesting seasons I've ever experienced.

    Not for the reasons bng said, but because our team was boring and soft.

    Now in theory I agree with bng I hate what basketball has become. However I just shrug my shoulders and realize that I am old and the league has just moved on. There probably is no going back to the game I loved but I know a lot of fans prefer this style of play


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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Game 3 of the finals has been the only game I've actually watched. Because I knew it would be competitive. Any game in Golden State is going to be a blowout.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Fun season? For who?

    I found this to literally be one of the most boring non interesting seasons I've ever experienced.

    Not for the reasons bng said, but because our team was boring and soft.

    Now in theory I agree with bng I hate what basketball has become. However I just shrug my shoulders and realize that I am old and the league has just moved on. There probably is no going back to the game I loved but I know a lot of fans prefer this style of play
    I am more or less in this boat as well. I hated the game yesterday cuz it was IMHO what I hate about basketball today.....more NBA2k17 than actual basketball. As you suggest, this is not the NBA that we are more familiar or ( more specifically ) the NBA that we prefer to watch.

    I get why people would like this version of the NBA....but it's just not my cup of tea.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Is it the style of play or more of the "super teams" that is destroying the game? I'd say it is the latter. When there is no parity, no opportunity, and no hope for most teams to compete for a championship, it eventually becomes a bad overall product. How to fix it? The NBA needs a hard cap and franchise tags which the union strongly opposes. The NBA has to compromise if they truly want to achieve balance across the league.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Related: The NBA is in the best shape it's ever been in. I get that the playoffs have sucked, I get that the superteam trend is alarming, I get that some of the long time fans don't like the shift from the post to the perimeter, but nothing is broken. Teams will adapt, the quirks of the cap spike will subside, and competitiveness will regress to the mean.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    the NBA is more popular and profitable now than it has ever been.

    It's fine if you don't like it, but have some perspective. The game has always been evolving. The old guard never likes change and has to deal with it kicking and screaming. I don't care for this either but I'm a dinosaur and what the younger generation wants to see matters more. The game I grew up with is never coming back the way it used to be and I've made my peace with that. I'm not going to be those old guys from the 60's back when I was a kid that took every opportunity to bash how "soft" the NBA was in the 80's, or how the 90's players were all fundamentally unsound, and how wilt would average 70 points a game today, because Ewing, Shaq and David Robinson were all sissy prima donnas. It was nauseating. I refuse to be that guy. Not happening.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-09-2017 at 06:06 AM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Fun season? For who?

    I found this to literally be one of the most boring non interesting seasons I've ever experienced.

    Not for the reasons bng said, but because our team was boring and soft.

    Now in theory I agree with bng I hate what basketball has become. However I just shrug my shoulders and realize that I am old and the league has just moved on. There probably is no going back to the game I loved but I know a lot of fans prefer this style of play
    I always enjoy the Pacers season. Even in the Murphleavy JOB years there was stuff to watch and root for. So of course I had players I enjoyed seeing grow, things to watch and root for this year.

    Yes, some seasons are more frustrating than other, but you can't have the sweet without the bitter.

    But I said the season was fun, not just the Pacers season. I watch and follow the NBA and enjoy the league. The fact is there were plenty of fun and exciting games and storylines. I wasn't convinced Cavs would turn it on or Warriors would stay healthy, so this Finals wasn't a forgone conclusion for me.

    Besides that NBA twitter is hilarious, as this league has the best writers. The NBA also has the best personalities on and off the court. It's just constant entertainment for me. Fun to follow every night.
    Last edited by freddielewis14; 06-09-2017 at 06:43 AM.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    I've never been less entertained by the league. I feel like the drop in quality from five-six years ago has just been jaw dropping. That's just how I feel, to each their own and I understand plenty of people love the current incarnation of the league.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 06-09-2017 at 06:57 AM.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Questions I have....

    1-What were the ratings on all game before the finals, were they higher too?

    2-If this becomes the norm with every year only two teams sweeping everyone else would that still bring high ratings?


    Sure you can enjoy the current set up. It is like watching the NBA dream team pummel the rest of the world. Would you like to see that year after year?
    Two or three All Stars on one team, maybe. How about 4 or 5 of the best players in the world all on one team? Yuck.

    How do you "fix" this?

    Allow teams to have one or two franchise players that make max money?
    A true hard cap?
    Other?

    The playing rules are a secondary issue.
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    Allow teams to have one or two franchise players that make max money?
    That seems like it would solve some problems.

    On the switch from post to perimeter, I can't think of much to change it. I wondered the other day if making the three worth 2.5 points might make a difference.
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    That seems like it would solve some problems.

    On the switch from post to perimeter, I can't think of much to change it. I wondered the other day if making the three worth 2.5 points might make a difference.
    I recall back on the day they outlawed dunking because it was considered too much of an unfair advantage for 7 footers.

    Then again, they outlawed dribbling 90 years ago because they felt quicker players had too much of an advantage.

    Instead of being prisoners of the moment, maybe let it breathe? One trend surfaces and then eventually everyone copies it and there's always a counter. More times than not changing the rules to nerf a specific skill set does way more harm than good. Case in point-the repeal of the illegal defense rule to slow Shaq down 15 years ago that led us directly to the path we are on right now...

    The game is best left to its own devices. Every artificial change to fix one problem generally begets two more problems.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-09-2017 at 08:45 AM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I feel like the drop in quality from five-six years ago has just been jaw dropping.

    I feel this is more the problem than anything, including the super-team drama and the modern style of play. But I'll go back 20 years ago.....

    Think about the 90's, for example - Olajuwan, Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, Karl Malone, Shaq, Penny Hardaway, Stockton, Gary Payton, Clyde Drexler, David Robinson, Mutumbo, Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, Glenn Robinson, Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Iverson, Chris Webber, Chris Mullen, Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Dominique Wilkins, Brad Daugherty, Isiah Thomas......

    Hell, some of the bench and role players from back then are, IMO, better than a lot of the present starters. Some would argue that Kyrie, Klay Thompson, and Harden are top 10-15 best players in the league right now. To me, they're equivalent to:

    Kyrie = Mark Price
    Klay Tompson = Alvin Robertson
    James Harden = Dana Barros

    Not saying that any of those guys are garbage; but, there was way more all-around talent in those days.

    Again, this is just my opinion.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by pogi View Post
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    I feel this is more the problem than anything, including the super-team drama and the modern style of play. But I'll go back 20 years ago.....

    Think about the 90's, for example - Olajuwan, Jordan, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, Karl Malone, Shaq, Penny Hardaway, Stockton, Gary Payton, Clyde Drexler, David Robinson, Mutumbo, Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, Glenn Robinson, Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Iverson, Chris Webber, Chris Mullen, Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Dominique Wilkins, Brad Daugherty, Isiah Thomas......

    Hell, some of the bench and role players from back then are, IMO, better than a lot of the present starters. Some would argue that Kyrie, Klay Thompson, and Harden are top 10-15 best players in the league right now. To me, they're equivalent to:

    Kyrie = Mark Price
    Klay Tompson = Alvin Robertson
    James Harden = Dana Barros

    Not saying that any of those guys are garbage; but, there was way more all-around talent in those days.

    Again, this is just my opinion.
    And wilt would average 70 points against those guys. And west would hit 500 threes every year. And Oscar would have 83 triple doubles. Because he'd get two in at least one game. And Bill Russell would average 32 blocked shots. Because those pansies are so lucky they didn't play in the 60's against the real men...

    See, the NBA actually had the most talent 50 years ago. Players actually de-evolved every year to the silly slop we have today.

    Would Lebron and Durant even crack the starting 5 of the Lakers? I mean, the Minneapolis Lakers of course...
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-09-2017 at 08:54 AM.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    the NBA is more popular and profitable now than it has ever been.
    Is it? The numbers I've seen, which only go back to 2007, actually show the peak to be around 2010-2012. I don't have numbers for this season, but on a per game basis last year ABC viewership was down 1.5 million from 2011-2012, TNT was down almost 1 million, and ESPN was down almost half a million. NBA TV is up by 10k, but has been mostly stable since it was introduced. That does not sound like more popular than ever.

    While the NBA is more profitable than ever, that profitability is a major reason why ESPN is having financial issues.

    Anyways, even if that is true the NBA is still broken. It can be fixed with two changes. First a hard cap, and getting rid of max contracts.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Many fans are fine with it. They don't care if other teams have a level playing field for talent. They must just want to see jams and threes like I did when I was 5 years old. In any event, there are still a lot of viewers. The NBA is supposedly getting high ratings. While I find that questionable, I will accept that viewers in the US are fine with the current product for some reason or another.



    So, what are the problems? I'm thinking the emergence of the 3...the death of the big man, mid range shot, post up, etc. The rule changes where you can't touch players. The money...the big, huge money...that eliminates motivation. The collusion among players. The recruiting by star players. LeDecision and him joining with DWade and Bosh. His return to Cleveland at no cost to them...after they loaded up on draft picks and were in a great position to trade for talent. Dude has simply manipulated the league.

    Then there is the worst thing of all: Free Agency. Free agency where the #2 player in the league basically turns a legitimately built team into perhaps the best super team in history. Free agency justified by the idea that players should have mobility to quit one job and work for another employer. Yet the NBA is really just one employer in reality. All tied to the CBA, these are not independent franchises.

    I'm sure there are many other problems. But what are the solutions?

    I find it a little insulting for you to suggest if we don't buy into the premise that the NBA is broken that we must just want to see jams and threes - like a 5 year old. Really? Is that is how you want to get a thoughtful discussion started.

    The NBA Finals ratings are the highest they have been since 1998 - Jordan's last season. That is fact.

    Honestly, and I am being 100% honest. They are some problems in the NBA - nothing is perfect. However IMO you fail to mention any of the problems I see.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I recall back on the day they outlawed dunking because it was considered too much of an unfair advantage for 7 footers.

    Then again, they outlawed dribbling 90 years ago because they felt quicker players had too much of an advantage.

    Instead of being prisoners of the moment, maybe let it breathe? One trend surfaces and then eventually everyone copies it and there's always a counter. More times than not changing the rules to nerf a specific skill set does way more harm than good. Case in point-the repeal of the illegal defense rule to slow Shaq down 15 years ago that led us directly to the path we are on right now...

    The game is best left to its own devices. Every artificial change to fix one problem generally begets two more problems.

    I am not a big proponent of changing the rules of the game but I would like to slow down the grouping of top players on one team.
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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    And wilt would average 70 points against those guys. And west would hit 500 threes every year. And Oscar would have 83 triple doubles. Because he'd get two in at least one game. And Bill Russell would average 32 blocked shots. Because those pansies are so lucky they didn't play in the 60's against the real men...

    See, the NBA actually had the most talent 50 years ago. Players actually de-evolved every year to the silly slop we have today.

    Would Lebron and Durant even crack the starting 5 of the Lakers? I mean, the Minneapolis Lakers of course...
    Well, considering the amount of teams there was a higher concentration of high talent players back then. I'd bet some of the worst teams of that time would be some of the best teams today simply because the talent pool hadn't been watered down. That concentration of talent probably did result in better players. Typically people who do something with or against the best tend to improve faster and beyond than those who do not. Playing against and with a higher concentration of high talent players would have been conducive to increasing the talent level of the players beyond what a player today who plays with and against a watered down talent pool.

    There are probably tons of young players out there who could have potentially been better than most NBA players, but because they never got an opportunity to play with or against higher level talent, they never had the opportunity to push their abilities to the point where it was possible. This is a major reason why places of higher population tend to produce better talent. More competition pushes everyone to get better, while that kid who lives in a small town never has the kind of competition to push him to get better.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I've never been less entertained by the league. I feel like the drop in quality from five-six years ago has just been jaw dropping. That's just how I feel, to each their own and I understand plenty of people love the current incarnation of the league.
    I suppose I need to ask what you mean by quality. This current NBA Finals, the quality has been extremely high. The Warriors are a great team, they move, they pass - they play as a team defensively - they play the right way. If some people fail to see that I don't know what I can say. I would ask maybe you aren't watching.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    The game has constantly been tweaked to try to balance it - the lane was widened, the 3-point line was added, the no-charge (OK, "guaranteed foul call") zone was defined, and more. I don't think it is somehow pure to leave the game alone and let the players and coaches adjust.

    If I could make one single change I would take away the corner 3 and have the arc intersect the sideline. That would take away the cheap 3 point shots. You'd still have an advantage with the guys who can hit the extreme long range but defenses would be more free to guard those players and only give up a long 2 in exchange. I really think that one change alone would make a huge difference.
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    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    Questions I have....

    1-What were the ratings on all game before the finals, were they higher too?

    2-If this becomes the norm with every year only two teams sweeping everyone else would that still bring high ratings?


    I follow the ratings rather closely., In general the first round of the playoffs, the ratings were up. Second round up slightly. Conference finals were down significantly. But remember Warriors Thunder went 7 last year and got huge ratings. NBA Finals through 3 games are the highest they have been since 1998.

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    Default Re: The NBA is broken. How do we put it back together again?

    Somehow...I REALLY believe that this wouldn't be a "problem" if Indiana had made it to the NBA Finals in dominant fashion, REGARDLESS of how the team was formed. Honestly, if you don't like the "product", then turn the TV off. Problem solved. These constant threads and posts regarding "parity" is getting rather annoying. The other 29 teams (yes, I'm including Cleveland) need to continue building their teams until GS breaks up due to players wanting to get paid their market value.

    To me, it is what it is for the time being. Lebron is a GREAT player in the East who can make any team title contenders just by adding him. The GSW caught a unicorn break with the salary cap and Durant. The funny part of all this...had Harrison Barnes signed his extension, GS wouldn't had the space to sign KD.
    Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 06-09-2017 at 10:17 AM.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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