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Thread: An answer for Fortaz......

  1. #126
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    I disagree about the Mavs. I think Dirk is more important.

    Anyone that plays defense that good, or well?, and can actually put the ball in the cup, would most definately be the most important factor on that team. Might not be the leading scorer, which has become the definition of MVP, but that team is DYING not having a stopper on the outside.

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Anyone that plays defense that good, or well?, and can actually put the ball in the cup, would most definately be the most important factor on that team. Might not be the leading scorer, which has become the definition of MVP, but that team is DYING not having a stopper on the outside.

    Dirk has proven he can be the leader of a franchise.

    Has Ron?

  3. #128

    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    Dirk has proven he can be the leader of a franchise.

    Has Ron?
    I thought JO was the leader of the franchise
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    it appears more to me that they want to have it both ways....they wanna win....but dont want to give 'proper' support...so that when we lose it doesnt hurt as bad because theyre able to say 'i told u so'.....

    ..
    No. We want to win, therefore, we want to get rid of the player who simply doesn't fit within the team concept.

    Talent alone could get us deep in the playoffs, but a team has to really mesh together to win it all.

    Unless we had Shaq, or something crazy like that.

    As for the Blind Faith argument, I think you are confusing Basketball with Religon.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  5. #130
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    Dirk has proven he can be the leader of a franchise.

    Has Ron?
    im sorry....but i have to ask....how has dirk proven he can be the leader of a franchise?????

    and im not trying to be smart....but if he has proven he can be the leader, where has he lead it?

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    Dirk has proven he can be the leader of a franchise.

    Has Ron?

    That wasn't the statement though. The leader isn't the most important player. Ron would most definately be the most important player on the Mavs team.

    BTW, where as Dirk led the Mavs too?

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    That wasn't the statement though. The leader isn't the most important player. Ron would most definately be the most important player on the Mavs team.

    BTW, where as Dirk led the Mavs too?

    The conference finals, which is as far as this current Pacers core has gone.

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    The conference finals, which is as far as this current Pacers core has gone.

    I don't think I've ever saw a resume with "0-? in conference final series." With that said, I believe the same thing about this current Pacers team. They are contenders, that have never gotten over the hump.

  9. #134
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    No. We want to win, therefore, we want to get rid of the player who simply doesn't fit within the team concept.
    who says he doesnt fit?? the coaching staff says he does...the management says he does...they would seem to be the two most knowledgeable and qualified to do so...let alone the most qualified to do something about it if they felt differently? if its the fans eyes.....well...first of all not all fans want that...in fact, not that it matters, but its the minority that want that...however thats irrelevant....please explain to me, however, how a fan is more qualified to make this decision than the coaching staff and the management?? this actually makes a fine argument for the theory that coaches should coach, management should manage, and fans should cheer and shut the hell up about everything else....

    Talent alone could get us deep in the playoffs, but a team has to really mesh together to win it all.

    Unless we had Shaq, or something crazy like that.

    As for the Blind Faith argument, I think you are confusing Basketball with Religon.

    show me where i said anything about blind??? please dont put words in my mouth....if ur gonna quote me, please dont delete my words and then choose others that u would rather use....

    its hardly blind to have faith that qualified individuals do their job....im assuming if ur old enuff that someone has faith that u will do ur job...or ur teacher has faith u will do ur homework....

    in both instances being able to see and religion have nothing to do with it....

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Dirk is not a leader, he is an agitator, if the playoffs this season are any indication. It seemed everytime I saw the neurotic mess he was lashing out at one of his team mates.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    who says he doesnt fit?? the coaching staff says he does...the management says he does...they would seem to be the two most knowledgeable and qualified to do so...let alone the most qualified to do something about it if they felt differently? if its the fans eyes.....well...first of all not all fans want that...in fact, not that it matters, but its the minority that want that...however thats irrelevant....please explain to me, however, how a fan is more qualified to make this decision than the coaching staff and the management?? this actually makes a fine argument for the theory that coaches should coach, management should manage, and fans should cheer and shut the hell up about everything else....



    Who says he he doesn't fit? Rick Carisle. "Conduct detrimental to winning," remember?

    If he fit within the team concept, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The stupid sideshow that Ron brings, and that we have grown accustomed to, wouldn't exist.

    I think that covered the first half of this blurb. As for the second half, I agree with you, actually.

    Some fans should shut the hell up.
    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    show me where i said anything about blind??? please dont put words in my mouth....if ur gonna quote me, please dont delete my words and then choose others that u would rather use....

    its hardly blind to have faith that qualified individuals do their job....im assuming if ur old enuff that someone has faith that u will do ur job...or ur teacher has faith u will do ur homework....

    in both instances being able to see and religion have nothing to do with it....
    You mention faith, and faith is inherently blind. Blind faith is the basis of religon.

    In fact, you offer a great example of blind faith in the following quote.

    and to maintain any sort of sanity, its a necessity to trust and believe that every member of the organization from the owners right down to the ballboys want the same things....primarily based on winning a championship...and furthermore i gotta believe that everyone is doing everything they can do make that happen....


    Many choose to believe that there is something greater than any of us waiting the heavens in order to keep the sanity.

    You choose to believe the Pacers are 100% dedicated to winning a championship to keep the sanity.

    I could draw you a Venn Diagram, if you'd like.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  12. #137
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    i dont look at it much different than a coaching strategy, for instance....i may not agree with certain philosophies...i might not like a certain assistant...but im a pacer fan....and to maintain any sort of sanity, its a necessity to trust and believe that every member of the organization from the owners right down to the ballboys want the same things....primarily based on winning a championship...and furthermore i gotta believe that everyone is doing everything they can do make that happen....

    While I think everyone in the organization would like to have a championship I think there are varying degrees to which it drives them. That's one of the places some of us disagree. I'd like to think that the first thing everyone does (from players to coaches to management to ownership) is wake up in the morning and start asking themselves what they can do today to see that the Pacers win a championship this coming season. Unfortunately, (for us fans) that is most likely not the case.

    I'm certain (IMHO) management tries to strike a balance between getting that elusive championship banner and maintaining a competitive team for the foreseeable future.

    And let's not forget money factors. Either the owners won't, or management is too wise to spend like money grows on trees. Now, maybe there is a better balance or maybe what money is spent could be put to better use (cough Bender cough Croshere cough Reggie cough cough cough....) but that is what these forums are good for (we won't answer the question but by gosh we can debate it! )

    On the other part of your post.... I'm afraid your post is coming awfully close to the dreaded declaration that some people aren't 'true fans' unless they show their support a certain way (that in this case agrees with you). That is one of the things Sassan couldn't get and so he looked to explain people not believing or showing the same support as him with 'labels' that more times than not were not accurate (and were usually insulting). That's dangerous ground and I'm not sure I want to go there right now.


    -Bball
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Holy cow bball I want to shoot my computer screen after looking at your post....
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  14. #139
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    While I think everyone in the organization would like to have a championship I think there are varying degrees to which it drives them. That's one of the places some of us disagree. I'd like to think that the first thing everyone does (from players to coaches to management to ownership) is wake up in the morning and start asking themselves what they can do today to see that the Pacers win a championship this coming season. Unfortunately, (for us fans) that is most likely not the case.


    measuring committment is something i prefer to try to avoid...its about like measuring effort...its usually only dont with a negative mindset...i think u have to assume committment....otherwise u might as well question everything...i think this team has repeatedly shown their level of committment is quite high...and larry bird seems to be very motivated by nature....things have a way of starting at the top and working down...so i like the feeling i get overall

    I'm certain (IMHO) management tries to strike a balance between getting that elusive championship banner and maintaining a competitive team for the foreseeable future.
    i like being in contention every year....i remember the mid 70s and 80s where we had no shot....not only are we competitive every year we are generally a title contender....i think we are unbelievably spoiled when it comes to this....a few years ago we were battling the knicks...look what happened to them...a few years ago we were battling the bulls...look what happened to them...we played the lakers in the finals, look what happened to them...yes...i feel management has earned our support and continues to do so....and yet some will tell u point blank how wrong they are where the artest situation is concerned....well..given the track record of the organization and the lack of track record of the fan...guess which way im leaning???...

    And let's not forget money factors. Either the owners won't, or management is too wise to spend like money grows on trees. Now, maybe there is a better balance or maybe what money is spent could be put to better use (cough Bender cough Croshere cough Reggie cough cough cough....) but that is what these forums are good for (we won't answer the question but by gosh we can debate it! )
    they are in the top tier in payroll spent...while being in the middle tier as far as ticket prices go....i think thats more than fair....i think they have shown a willingness to spend....more importantly theyve shown a committment to fans to provide a consistent winning product....have mistakes been made with contracts? definitely where austin was concerned...but understandably so....they were afraid to let him go without anything...which is understandable, business wise...in hindsight sure..should have let him walk...but hindsight, well..u know...bender is a fluke...no way to know where his health was concerned...whatta ya do?

    On the other part of your post.... I'm afraid your post is coming awfully close to the dreaded declaration that some people aren't 'true fans' unless they show their support a certain way (that in this case agrees with you). That is one of the things Sassan couldn't get and so he looked to explain people not believing or showing the same support as him with 'labels' that more times than not were not accurate (and were usually insulting). That's dangerous ground and I'm not sure I want to go there right now.

    -Bball

    naaaa...dont confuse things....i would never attempt to tell someone how they should support their team...i do it my way...u do it urs....however i do believe that a true fan should be supportive, both in matters they approve as well as disapprove....because its ultimately about team...not any one player or coach or whatever.....

    notice i didnt say like...only support...its quite possible to support something u dont like....the key is focusing on the parts that u do...and considering we are pacers fans first, that shouldnt be that difficult...

  15. #140
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    .a few years ago we were battling the knicks...look what happened to them...

    No championship

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    a few years ago we were battling the bulls...look what happened to them...



    Several championships...

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    we played the lakers in the finals, look what happened to them...



    Multiple championships (and a series loss in the Finals)


    I'm not sure what all that means.... Maybe it means you can't have your cake and eat it too? Or maybe it means John Starks can't play a deciding game where he shoots 0 for 50 (or whatever it was). In any case, we just gave Rimfire a bad flashback. Rimfire->

    -Bball
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    ------

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    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Sorry guys I got home late & I just don't have the time or energy to go at this tonight, it will take to long.

    Fortaz I will get to this, but I think there is a lot of ground to cover & I'm not sure I even understand all of it yet so give me some time.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Ok I tried to stay out, but still feel that I have to defend myself, and why would i shutup when I have an opinion.

    Defend myself? Yes, from what Peck says and what is insinuated by more, Seeing my posts on the "artest" topic, I am definitely seen as being in the camp of "defenders", though I disagree with that.

    What rattles me most is that Peck & Jay have defined positions, so defined that no matter what happens Ron has no chance to redeem himself with them, yet they oppose those that "defend" Ron at all cost because they "like" him or whatever other reason.

    Let me re-itterate once again: I did and do not approve of Ron going into the stands, nor do I support him in actions that are detrimental to anything on the team, yet I defended (and will remain doing so) him on this board, but for totally different reasons.

    I am duly aware of the talent he brings, as well as of the humanitarian he is, as well as how immature he really is.
    Few would say the things that Ron says, few compared him to 4th graders, all correct, however in this league few would make 1.5 mio and give it all away to their family and try to solve their financial hardship resulting from that by applying for a part-time job at a store.
    Few on this board have thankfully had the live he had, which is one of the reasons I feel he has more "leeway" then others, it is something society has proven to be partial to, those who are weaker due to upbringing have more considerations then those who have not, and no it does not always balance out.

    Where did I most fiercely defend Ron? well in actual fact I never defended Ron, not in the sense of the word "defend" but I did disagree with the handling of the "brawl", the outcome for the Pacers and Ron in particular.
    My "sense of justice" gets extremely perverted by not getting all the facts and seeing one man shows deciding on the faith of a player and the franchise he is playing for, I have a problem with injustice when in any way I am "touched" by it, as in this case as a Pacerfan I am.

    Some definitions that have been tossed around losely in this thread are "team" and "crazy".
    By all common day standard explanations of the word crazy, Ron is not. In actual fact there ar more people on this board that fit in that category, myself including, then Ron.
    As for "team", I agree it's all about the team, however despite what some say, team and "talented individuals thrown together" have more in common then you try to make it out to be.
    A team is nothing but a collection of (preferably most) talented individuals playing together and functioning as a team, molded to act in the combined intrest of winning.
    The molding part is the management's task, the ciaching staff and the front-office are responsible for a few things:
    Front office; to get the best talent available for the money available (or allowed to spend) at the disposition of the coaching staff who then has the more or less enviable task to mold the team.
    The individual talents are subject to a salespitch called "teamconcept" and they either buy, or don't buy. If they don't buy management has several options, drop the individual and find an individual more likely to buy into the concept, or get a better salesperson (coach) to sell the concept.
    It is not up to the individual to "drop" himself into a mold, as an example, when Ron complained in the early stages of last year about the fact that it was no fun playing like they did, he wa suspended for conduct detrimental to winning, one way to enfore a sale, however as addition to that the team changed its ways somewhat, one of those things that changed around that time was Mike Bronw in Ricks absence (T) inserted Jamaal, and we all know the outcome to that.

    What I am trying to say is that it is not all on the player, responsibility is laying elsewhere as well, and we as supporters (a word I like a lot better then "fans") fared well with that and should.
    We are all entitled to an opinion, those who want to think about their stance and change it from time to time due to what they see or read are just as smart as those who never waver, "I told you so" is so easy to say, but over the years I have grown to hate saying it, in all circumstancs, not only "pacers" related.

    We have opinions on players, (Ron is crazy, JO will never become a leader, AJ sux, JB is a wuss) without knowing the individuals, knowing their motivation, their real feelings and their real talents.
    Many may experience the same frustration we feel when watching but over their "task" in the "concept" some may cherish their "task" like some here cherish the concept of whatever over something else.

    I refuse to judge players on anything else but their work on the floor and the sweat they shed, I do not concllude that when Jamaal is injured again that he is less conditioned then others, he may just be plain unlucky, it does not diminish his "heart" nor his talent, both of which he has shown a plentitude. If JO gets injured I do not hink he's a prima donna, I see the warrior that plays hurt and does whatever he can to still produce his best. When ron goes ape**** I do not see a lunatic, I see a troubled youth doing his utmost to fit into the concept and give his best, and when believing that the concept is not going to do it tries to do something more (not always the right one, but trying accounts for something)
    When I see SJax breaking yet another offensive play I do not see an idiot, I see a player feeling that other or the concept cant get it done and trying to do it himself.
    If I see JO in the post with the ball and the rest of the team waiting at the 3pt line I do not see a prima dona who wants to do it all alone, I see a flawed concept to which he as leader wants to stick.
    If I see Reggie (or JJ) pass up another shot to dump in the post, I see a flawed concept, but players sticking to it to a fault.
    If I read JO is and will not be a leader I think Reggie might have held him back, because if I read about him, or see his progress over the years I see a lighting example to kids all over the world and a great leader to be.
    If I read about scurmages on the plane or the team in general I see frustration in individuals that all want the same thing, to win.

    A supporter is what it says, I am a Pacers supporter, not a fan, though I might be crazy, there are more important things in my life then the Pacers.
    I support this team and all the players that are a part of it, they are not free from critcism, but they are players on a team I support and as such they are entitled of my support. I do not have to love them individually, but I do support them.

    Some people have crossed lines I hope I never cross when it comes to feelings for people I do not know. But it is up to them to want to do so. Far be it from me to judge anyone for that matter.

    I support the Pacers and their players when I comment on the "judicial" effects of the brawl, whilst keeping an open mind to justice in general and the way it is used in most civilized countries, I then have a right to give my opinion on those matters.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Ok I tried to stay out, but still feel that I have to defend myself, and why would i shutup when I have an opinion.

    Defend myself? Yes, from what Peck says and what is insinuated by more, Seeing my posts on the "artest" topic, I am definitely seen as being in the camp of "defenders", though I disagree with that.

    What rattles me most is that Peck & Jay have defined positions, so defined that no matter what happens Ron has no chance to redeem himself with them, yet they oppose those that "defend" Ron at all cost because they "like" him or whatever other reason.

    Let me re-itterate once again: I did and do not approve of Ron going into the stands, nor do I support him in actions that are detrimental to anything on the team, yet I defended (and will remain doing so) him on this board, but for totally different reasons.

    I am duly aware of the talent he brings, as well as of the humanitarian he is, as well as how immature he really is.
    Few would say the things that Ron says, few compared him to 4th graders, all correct, however in this league few would make 1.5 mio and give it all away to their family and try to solve their financial hardship resulting from that by applying for a part-time job at a store.
    Few on this board have thankfully had the live he had, which is one of the reasons I feel he has more "leeway" then others, it is something society has proven to be partial to, those who are weaker due to upbringing have more considerations then those who have not, and no it does not always balance out.

    Where did I most fiercely defend Ron? well in actual fact I never defended Ron, not in the sense of the word "defend" but I did disagree with the handling of the "brawl", the outcome for the Pacers and Ron in particular.
    My "sense of justice" gets extremely perverted by not getting all the facts and seeing one man shows deciding on the faith of a player and the franchise he is playing for, I have a problem with injustice when in any way I am "touched" by it, as in this case as a Pacerfan I am.

    Some definitions that have been tossed around losely in this thread are "team" and "crazy".
    By all common day standard explanations of the word crazy, Ron is not. In actual fact there ar more people on this board that fit in that category, myself including, then Ron.
    As for "team", I agree it's all about the team, however despite what some say, team and "talented individuals thrown together" have more in common then you try to make it out to be.
    A team is nothing but a collection of (preferably most) talented individuals playing together and functioning as a team, molded to act in the combined intrest of winning.
    The molding part is the management's task, the ciaching staff and the front-office are responsible for a few things:
    Front office; to get the best talent available for the money available (or allowed to spend) at the disposition of the coaching staff who then has the more or less enviable task to mold the team.
    The individual talents are subject to a salespitch called "teamconcept" and they either buy, or don't buy. If they don't buy management has several options, drop the individual and find an individual more likely to buy into the concept, or get a better salesperson (coach) to sell the concept.
    It is not up to the individual to "drop" himself into a mold, as an example, when Ron complained in the early stages of last year about the fact that it was no fun playing like they did, he wa suspended for conduct detrimental to winning, one way to enfore a sale, however as addition to that the team changed its ways somewhat, one of those things that changed around that time was Mike Bronw in Ricks absence (T) inserted Jamaal, and we all know the outcome to that.

    What I am trying to say is that it is not all on the player, responsibility is laying elsewhere as well, and we as supporters (a word I like a lot better then "fans") fared well with that and should.
    We are all entitled to an opinion, those who want to think about their stance and change it from time to time due to what they see or read are just as smart as those who never waver, "I told you so" is so easy to say, but over the years I have grown to hate saying it, in all circumstancs, not only "pacers" related.

    We have opinions on players, (Ron is crazy, JO will never become a leader, AJ sux, JB is a wuss) without knowing the individuals, knowing their motivation, their real feelings and their real talents.
    Many may experience the same frustration we feel when watching but over their "task" in the "concept" some may cherish their "task" like some here cherish the concept of whatever over something else.

    I refuse to judge players on anything else but their work on the floor and the sweat they shed, I do not concllude that when Jamaal is injured again that he is less conditioned then others, he may just be plain unlucky, it does not diminish his "heart" nor his talent, both of which he has shown a plentitude. If JO gets injured I do not hink he's a prima donna, I see the warrior that plays hurt and does whatever he can to still produce his best. When ron goes ape**** I do not see a lunatic, I see a troubled youth doing his utmost to fit into the concept and give his best, and when believing that the concept is not going to do it tries to do something more (not always the right one, but trying accounts for something)
    When I see SJax breaking yet another offensive play I do not see an idiot, I see a player feeling that other or the concept cant get it done and trying to do it himself.
    If I see JO in the post with the ball and the rest of the team waiting at the 3pt line I do not see a prima dona who wants to do it all alone, I see a flawed concept to which he as leader wants to stick.
    If I see Reggie (or JJ) pass up another shot to dump in the post, I see a flawed concept, but players sticking to it to a fault.
    If I read JO is and will not be a leader I think Reggie might have held him back, because if I read about him, or see his progress over the years I see a lighting example to kids all over the world and a great leader to be.
    If I read about scurmages on the plane or the team in general I see frustration in individuals that all want the same thing, to win.

    A supporter is what it says, I am a Pacers supporter, not a fan, though I might be crazy, there are more important things in my life then the Pacers.
    I support this team and all the players that are a part of it, they are not free from critcism, but they are players on a team I support and as such they are entitled of my support. I do not have to love them individually, but I do support them.

    Some people have crossed lines I hope I never cross when it comes to feelings for people I do not know. But it is up to them to want to do so. Far be it from me to judge anyone for that matter.

    I support the Pacers and their players when I comment on the "judicial" effects of the brawl, whilst keeping an open mind to justice in general and the way it is used in most civilized countries, I then have a right to give my opinion on those matters.
    very, very eloquently put....and unbelievably reflective of my own personal feelings...i quit keeping count of the times i said 'thats exactly how i feel' at about 153....

  19. #144
    Member Alabama-Redneck's Avatar
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    WOW !!!!

    Great post.

    Able, you have expressed so many of my feelings that I feel like I wrote this piece. Nice piece of work.


    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

  20. #145
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Defend myself? Yes, from what Peck says and what is insinuated by more, Seeing my posts on the "artest" topic, I am definitely seen as being in the camp of "defenders", though I disagree with that.

    What rattles me most is that Peck & Jay have defined positions, so defined that no matter what happens Ron has no chance to redeem himself with them, yet they oppose those that "defend" Ron at all cost because they "like" him or whatever other reason.
    Oh, get off your high horse. The opposite is true as well. There are people here whose positions are so resolute that they refuse to listen to facts or reason when it comes to defending Ron. Myriad, irrefutable, cold-hard facts that have solely to do with what he's done on the court and behind the scenes. Whereas his defenders' arguments are primarily emotional. And Ron does have a chance to redeem himself. In fact, he's had many chances to redeem himself. And if we are indeed keeping Ron, then he will have, once again, the opportunity to redeem himself (where does it end?). And all that requires is that he play ball and not addle this team with distractions and suspensions, etc. And so far, he has shown he is incapable of doing that. Care to refute that?

  21. #146

    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Since when is anything behind the scenes refutable?
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  22. #147
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    Since when is anything behind the scenes refutable?
    You mean irrefutable? I know things that have happened "behind the scenes" that aren't based on speculation or hearsay.

  23. #148
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Iron-clad feather-feet pounding the dust,
    An October's day, towards evening,
    Sweat embossed veins standing proud to the plough,
    Salt on a deep chest seasoning.
    Last of the line at an honest day's toil,
    Turning the deep sod under,
    Flint at the fetlock, chasing the bone,
    Flies at the nostrils plunder.
    The Suffolk, the Clydesdale, the Percheron vie
    with the Shire on his feathers floating.
    Hauling soft timber into the dusk
    to bed on a warm straw coating.

    Heavy Horses, move the land under me.
    Behind the plough gliding slipping and sliding free.
    Now you're down to the few
    And there's no work to do:
    The tractor's on its way".
    Let me find you a filly for your proud stallion seed
    to keep the old line going.
    And we'll stand you abreast at the back of the wood
    behind the young trees growing.
    To hide you from eyes that mock at your girth,
    and your eighteen hands at the shoulder.
    And one day when the oil barons have all dripped dry
    and the nights are seen to draw colder
    they'll beg for your strength, your gentle power
    your noble grace and your bearing.
    And you'll strain once again to the sound of the gulls
    in the wake of the deep plough, sharing.

    Standing like tanks on the brow of the hill
    Up into the cold wind facing
    In stiff battle harness, chained to the world
    Against the low sun racing.
    Bring me a wheel of oaken wood
    A rein of polished leather
    A Heavy Horse and a tumbling sky
    Brewing heavy weather.

    Bring a song for the evening
    Clean brass to flash the dawn
    across these acres glistening
    like dew on a carpet lawn.
    In these dark towns folk lie sleeping
    as the heavy horses thunder by
    to wake the dying city
    with the living horseman's cry.
    At once the old hands quicken,
    bring pick and wisp and curry comb,
    thrill to the sound of all
    the heavy horses coming home.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  24. #149
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    hear∑say ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hÓrs)
    n.
    Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.
    Law. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.

    spec∑u∑la∑tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spky-lshn)
    n.

    Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
    A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
    Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

    Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit.
    A commercial or financial transaction involving speculation.

  25. #150
    Harmonica
    Guest

    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    hear∑say ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hÓrs)
    n.
    Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.
    Law. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.

    spec∑u∑la∑tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spky-lshn)
    n.

    Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
    A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
    Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

    Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit.
    A commercial or financial transaction involving speculation.
    Thanks, but I think I have a pretty good grasp of their meaning.

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