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Thread: An answer for Fortaz......

  1. #301
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    you! I was waiting to do that, but got caught up reading some of the purple!
    If you read only Peck's responses, you get the gist of what is said in the purple.

  2. #302
    Harmonica
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    You know what, I actually agree on that.

    Hell for once I don't even blame for this. At the time I'm sure they had no idea how bad it would get so they tried to get something in return.

    As to how serious? It wasn't that serious but not because of us. West did not want any part of Artest. I think they started out talking about Swift but then dropped down to Miller. But either way Jerry wasn't budging.
    Actually they had their eye on Bonzi. But the talks never really got that serious, as far as I know. The talks that got down to brass tacks were with Sacramento and Orlando.

  3. #303
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Peck,

    did u happen to see my post where i addressed the austin issue? cause someone asked the exact same question u did...and i addressed it...if not here it is..
    http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...&postcount=285


  4. #304
    Harmonica
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    At the time I'm sure they had no idea how bad it would get so they tried to get something in return.
    By the way, this is pretty much the whole argument in a nutshell and certainly addresses this:

    "bottom line is, the people that matter are able to take a much more in depth look than u and i and have many more facts available than u and i...do u not trust their judgement?"

    We know what the judges ruled last summer before "the incident." Ron needed to go.

  5. #305
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    Peck,

    did u happen to see my post where i addressed the austin issue? cause someone asked the exact same question u did...and i addressed it...
    Yea, sorry about that. I didn't read other posts till after ours.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  6. #306
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    [QUOTE=Peck]
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    I swear I thought your last line was going to be that this makes him just like Jordan. Thank God you didn't say that because I think I would have had to jump off the bank one building if you did.

    Only 25..... I know people who make life & death decisions every single day that are younger than 25.

    Ok, I've admitted that Ron is a great ball player but I think my thoughts on him being a great ball player are differant than yours. I mean I think he is good, way above average. I think you think he is a special player or am I misunderstanding you?
    i think we could probably go back and forth on alot of things forever...which im sure neither one of us have any desire to do....i will reiterate my desire for everyone, not just u, to hold the all the players to similar standards....and i do believe that ur mindset appears to be one that will only allow ron to fail...he will always be further than perfect than others....

    i thought i might address this question since u did ask it....

    i think at times, hes a special player....and i think he has the potential to be a very special player....but i also believe that for him to do that...no matter where hes at....he has to exorcise the demons that haunt him....he has to resolve these emotional issues....he must get his mind right...because for him to be a very special player, his mental game needs to be as good as his physical game.....he is gifted physically....and hes gifted mentally-and i say that because hes able to play with an intensity level that appears to me to be much higher than most....there only appears to be one thing holding him back....

    and as long as it does, he will continue to have the inconsistencies hes had from a mental standpoint on the court....and he will continue to have interpersonal problems with his teammates and coaches that prevent his team from being as cohesive a unit as it could be.... and he will continue to be a very good basketball player who seems to be on a collision course, with what, is anybodys guess....but he will never even sniff his potential....

    but,to be honest....if he doesnt get these issues resolved, hes got bigger problems than basketball....and because i kinda like the guy, that concerns me....life is more than basketball...and just as his issues haunt his basketball game, they will continue to haunt his life...but its been proven that these sorts of things can be dealt with very effectively....

    and that excites me, as a pacer fan....but also as an artest fan....i want things to work out for the kid....whether its here or anywhere else....id hate to see such a talent go to waste....but more than that, id hate to see what seems to be a quality human being go to waste....

  7. #307
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    At this point, barring some decent trade that approaches equal value for Artest or really scores a need for the Pacers, I think we should be simply making sure our backup plan (person) is in place in case Ron decides to retire, fight the whole team, get suspened, get banned, or whatever else is now not outside of the realm of possibilities with him.

    I'm of the opinion a vet minimum (or just slightly better) type player is all the quality we could hope for in a trade of Artest (now) anyway (Obviously we'd be getting more $$$ wrapped up in the trade due to salary and maybe there'd be some useless filler we'd have to deal with)... So why not just have our cake and eat it too? Keep Artest, tighten the leash, and make sure we have a player of the quality we'd have taken in trade anyway. That way we have Artest in case he has learned something and reshaped his life, and we have a replacement option of roughly the same value as what we would have gotten in an Artest trade anyway.

    I'm not adverse to that player being JJ. That's not saying that JJ is as good as Artest, that is saying I fear JJ is as good as we could hope for in a trade of Artest anyway.

    So IMO, it is about the bench where we need to think about Artest (players backing him up). ....Unless someone has some way to actually get an (close to) equal quality player in trade out of someone.

    -Bball
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  8. #308
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    but i also believe that for him to do that...no matter where hes at....he has to exercise the demons that haunt him
    OK, I don't normally rag on spelling/grammar, but it's just too funny a miswording here

    I think we don't want Ron to exercise his demons any more than he already has - they're probably healthy enough. We probably want him to exorcise them.

    Just funnin ya
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  9. #309
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    By the way, this is pretty much the whole argument in a nutshell and certainly addresses this:

    "bottom line is, the people that matter are able to take a much more in depth look than u and i and have many more facts available than u and i...do u not trust their judgement?"

    We know what the judges ruled last summer before "the incident." Ron needed to go.
    this sounds good to those that want to believe it....but there are facts that positively contradict this 'purported information'

    most notably....

    if u have a guy that u supposedly are so desperate to get rid of....who u feel will never be anything but a hindrance to ur team and its goals....and a guy who at the time, as has clearly been mentioned, didnt have the fan support that he has now due to the martyrdom....a guy, as u say that was deemed to be a guy that "needed to go" by those that were closest to that situation as is purported....

    then if he wants to go....why not let him???? he wanted to take time off....he didnt want to play basketball anymore....he wanted to retire.....

    well if ur wanting to get rid of him...if u feel ur team is better off without him....if ur so desperate to have him gone....WHY NOT LET HIM THE HELL GO????

    just be done with him...thats what u want, right?....'He Needs To Go'...

    but instead of this....they try to reason and appeal to ron....they obviously give no consideration to letting him go and every effort is made to prevent this time off and convince him that this sort of thing is not in the best interest of the team...they do everything within their power to prevent his departure.....this screams of realizing that they are much better off WITH him than without him....this contradicts the notion that they would like to see him gone...anything but....

    it says despite this poor act of behavior that is indeed disruptive and unacceptable, they want him on the team, they feel they need him on the team and have to figure a way to eliminate the distractions....they felt that whatever effort was required in trying to deal with rons problems, that the end result was worth it

    if i want someone gone....and they give me a golden opportunity....i take it....and dont look back...

    so before u buy into some of this nonsense, remember one thing...actions speak far louder than words.....there is posturing....and there are actions that are directly related to a certain course of action which points to what the real mindset of a team is....

    the pacers had their chance to get rid of him....with rons behavior and the leagues supposed disposition towards him combined with the simons relationship with the commissioners office , the pacers couldve come to some sort of settlement with regards to rons contract and the league wouldve almost certainly been very generous with allowances regarding the salary cap....the pacers had their chance....and u can be upset at the choice they made....but dont blame ron.....

    the pacers had their chance....and they obviously feel much different than is 'purported' or that some of u believe.....or the results wouldve been far different....

  10. #310
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS
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    OK, I don't normally rag on spelling/grammar, but it's just too funny a miswording here

    I think we don't want Ron to exercise his demons any more than he already has - they're probably healthy enough. We probably want him to exorcise them.

    Just funnin ya
    lol...yea..ur right...rather ironic huh? it feels like ive typed ten billion words the last day or two....its a wonder im even able to come up with something that is legible at all....though there might be some that say i cant...

    thank god for the edit feature

  11. #311
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    this sounds good to those that want to believe it....but there are facts that positively contradict this 'purported information'

    most notably....

    if u have a guy that u supposedly are so desperate to get rid of....who u feel will never be anything but a hindrance to ur team and its goals....and a guy who at the time, as has clearly been mentioned, didnt have the fan support that he has now due to the martyrdom....a guy, as u say that was deemed to be a guy that "needed to go" by those that were closest to that situation as is purported....

    then if he wants to go....why not let him???? he wanted to take time off....he didnt want to play basketball anymore....he wanted to retire.....

    well if ur wanting to get rid of him...if u feel ur team is better off without him....if ur so desperate to have him gone....WHY NOT LET HIM THE HELL GO????

    just be done with him...thats what u want, right?....'He Needs To Go'...

    but instead of this....they try to reason and appeal to ron....they obviously give no consideration to letting him go and every effort is made to prevent this time off and convince him that this sort of thing is not in the best interest of the team...they do everything within their power to prevent his departure.....this screams of realizing that they are much better off WITH him than without him....this contradicts the notion that they would like to see him gone...anything but....

    it says despite this poor act of behavior that is indeed disruptive and unacceptable, they want him on the team, they feel they need him on the team and have to figure a way to eliminate the distractions....they felt that whatever effort was required in trying to deal with rons problems, that the end result was worth it

    if i want someone gone....and they give me a golden opportunity....i take it....and dont look back...

    so before u buy into some of this nonsense, remember one thing...actions speak far louder than words.....there is posturing....and there are actions that are directly related to a certain course of action which points to what the real mindset of a team is....

    the pacers had their chance to get rid of him....with rons behavior and the leagues supposed disposition towards him combined with the simons relationship with the commissioners office , the pacers couldve come to some sort of settlement with regards to rons contract and the league wouldve almost certainly been very generous with allowances regarding the salary cap....the pacers had their chance....and u can be upset at the choice they made....but dont blame ron.....

    the pacers had their chance....and they obviously feel much different than is 'purported' or that some of u believe.....or the results wouldve been far different....
    This just is not true.

    Nobody said the team just wanted to cast him away, they wanted something in return for him. As the summer went on they lowered their expectations as to what they could get for him but they did try & move him.

    Look, I absolutely understand anyone not wanting to listen to people who try & tell you "Oh I know" on the internet because for all you know they could be totally making it up. But don't take our words for it. Just do a google search & you can see for yourself that the Bucks, the Griz & the Kings all state in public that the Pacers offered Ron Artest up in trades. Each of these links are online & if I get a chance later I will try & find them for you. The Pacers themselves made it known they used Ron as bait to get T-Mac.

    So in these cases it's not just something "we want to beleive", but is actual reported scenarios with quotes by management of other teams.

    But let's just say that harmonica has his sources & I've always found them to be reliable so if he says that the team looked to move X player for Z player then I believe him.

    However, if you don't want to I understand.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  12. #312
    foretaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    This just is not true.

    Nobody said the team just wanted to cast him away, they wanted something in return for him. As the summer went on they lowered their expectations as to what they could get for him but they did try & move him.

    Look, I absolutely understand anyone not wanting to listen to people who try & tell you "Oh I know" on the internet because for all you know they could be totally making it up. But don't take our words for it. Just do a google search & you can see for yourself that the Bucks, the Griz & the Kings all state in public that the Pacers offered Ron Artest up in trades. Each of these links are online & if I get a chance later I will try & find them for you. The Pacers themselves made it known they used Ron as bait to get T-Mac.

    So in these cases it's not just something "we want to beleive", but is actual reported scenarios with quotes by management of other teams.

    But let's just say that harmonica has his sources & I've always found them to be reliable so if he says that the team looked to move X player for Z player then I believe him.

    However, if you don't want to I understand.
    when did i ever say they didnt try to trade him????

    look...im very clear about something....i never deny facts...people trying to deliberately distort those facts to substantiate something theyd like to believe is something im a little leary of....

    as ive said often, now....i always ask why someone would do what they do....

    maybe ur just so used to automatically defending the antiron stance that ur inclined to do the same with me....

    but i assure u, and it should be a little more clear now....i dont think i share some of the views that the so called apologists do....i dont think uve heard me apologize or condone anything hes done....

    and while trying to trade ron for tracy mcgrady might be something u try to construe as the pacers wanting him gone....thats a very, very biased viewpoint.....

    if they dangle jo for garnett, does that mean they want jo gone???

    this is a business....and anyone that knows much of anything about business clearly knows that such stupid sayings as they "want him gone" never are uttered by successful businessman....and to think donnie, larry or the simons would utter such things let alone think such thinks only discredits those that are saying such things....successful businesses dont work that way....

    with regards to the tmac trade....tmac is arguably the only 3 that realistically would be an equal to ron in the league....not my words-urs....and im of a very similar opinion....

    if u have ur two superstars at odds(jo and artest) and at the same time tmac is very disgruntled and is definitely going to leave it only makes sense to broach that subject.....its smart...its good business....it hardly means they want him gone....noone is untouchable....this is business....as larry has clearly pointed out again this year...everyone is dispensable....if u can make a move that would seem to better the team u do it....as ive said regarding jo....i would trade him for duncan or garnett....aint gonna happen....and i love jo....but would do either one of those in a heartbeat....doesnt mean i want him gone....i mean cmon...

    there are other very definitive points i could make regarding things that blatantly point to them not 'wanting him gone'....but im not sure we want to go there...not sure what the point is....some people are going to say stupid things on the internet...and others are going to believe them.....some will find that logic and facts dont support said stupid remarks and take them for what they are....

  13. #313
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    this is a business....and anyone that knows much of anything about business clearly knows that such stupid sayings as they "want him gone" never are uttered by successful businessman....and to think donnie, larry or the simons would utter such things let alone think such thinks only discredits those that are saying such things....successful businesses dont work that way....
    You're joking, right? They may never publicly say such things, but they are discussed privately among each other, family members, etc. One thing you might want to keep in mind, and you might find this hard to believe, but these guys are human, too. I'm curious as to what you think are some other things these guys might not say or think. I will give you this, successful businessmen are adept at separating personal and emotional feelings from business decisions. But even then, I know that they too creep into their decisions from time to time. It's unavoidable. Again, because they're human.


    EDIT: Let me add, I think you're splitting hairs with what words are chosen to describe management's mindset last summer: "Want him gone" "Needs to go" etc. I just know that after last year's ECFs they were anxious to trade him for myriad reasons. His meltdown on and (mostly) off the court in that series prompted management to become more proactive in seeking out a suitable and equitable trade. Interpret that as you wish.

  14. #314
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Correct, Harmonica.

    More importantly, every good manager continually performs a "risk analysis" when important decisions must be made.

    In other words, how good will this team be without Artest? If we trade him, will we have lost our window of opportunity at a championship? If we don't trade him, will it affect our attendance figures?

    But I think you guys are mistaken if you think there was any panic on the part of the Pacers, or even in thinking that they may have reached a collective decision of "we want Artest gone". Not during last summer, anyway.

  15. #315
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    Correct, Harmonica.

    More importantly, every good manager continually performs a "risk analysis" when important decisions must be made.

    In other words, how good will this team be without Artest? If we trade him, will we have lost our window of opportunity at a championship? If we don't trade him, will it affect our attendance figures?

    But I think you guys are mistaken if you think there was any panic on the part of the Pacers, or even in thinking that they may have reached a collective decision of "we want Artest gone". Not during last summer, anyway.

    exactly....some here would have u believe that the pacers front office suffers from the same afflictions as ron artest and are prone to the same misguided knee jerk reactions that ron and a lot of fans are....

    uhhh....dont think so...donnie walsh has an unbelievably long history of rendering unemotional, agonizingly methodical and painstakingly thought out decisions....

    the implications of some on here are laughable....

  16. #316
    Harmonica
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    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    But I think you guys are mistaken if you think there was any panic on the part of the Pacers, or even in thinking that they may have reached a collective decision of "we want Artest gone". Not during last summer, anyway.
    Panic, no. Anxious, yes. As I noted above during/after the ECFs.

  17. #317
    foretaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Thats a good point.

    I dont live in Donnie Walsh's house, but tit wouldnt surprise me if he would think about "How would we be without JO" or "How would we be without Tinsley"

    As for the summer, I dont know if managment was in panic mode, but they def. shopped him around....
    i agree one hundred percent with everything uve said here....i dont think weve ever seen anything remotely resembling a panic mode from the walsh regime....

    the absolute closest thing i could think of would be the bender acquisition....one could definitely argue that after cambys playoff performance he put a premium value on a long athletic player that could affect a game both offensively as well as a weakside defender....he knew he had one of the very best low post defenders in dd....i think he might have become enamored a bit with what he saw camby do freelancing from the weakside on the defensive end....

    however, as much as we might hate to admit it....and history would definitely change our opinion....there were other very pertinent and very valid reasons to do that deal....it obviously didnt materialize the way that we all wouldve liked, no matter what happens from here on out....

    however....no one gets it right every time....there are simply too many variables

    'shopping somebody around' is a very subjective term...and i would hesitate a bit when discussing the mindset behind saying that....however if having trade conversations with one or two teams is shopping him around....then i would agree....i would never agree, however that that signifies wanting him gone....for i have a feeling the majority of players are shopped around based on the aforementioned definition and its a bit presumptuous to think that all these players are deemed by the team to 'need to be gone' status....

    its a business....in this business, player transactions are a part of it...teams constantly are on the look -out to alter and or better their teams....to attempt to put a negative spin on a player or the teams feelings of that player based on these types of discussions is a reach at the very least...

  18. #318
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    exactly....some here would have u believe that the pacers front office suffers from the same afflictions as ron artest and are prone to the same misguided knee jerk reactions that ron and a lot of fans are....

    uhhh....dont think so...donnie walsh has an unbelievably long history of rendering unemotional, agonizingly methodical and painstakingly thought out decisions....

    the implications of some on here are laughable...
    Who here is implying otherwise? Although Ron's behavior in the ECFs certainly got a very real and immediate emotional reaction from management. They were pissed.

  19. #319
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Who here is implying otherwise? Although Ron's behavior in the ECFs certainly got a very real and immediate emotional reaction from management. They were pissed.
    wow...am i to assume that this or was, at the time, some sort of earthshattering scoop??? i can probably think of a number of things they were pissed about after losing the ECF...

    lol..cmon...

    humans are emotional....when did i say they werent?...however, successful businessmen dont succumb to making decisions based on said emotions...in fact they do just the opposite...and as i said....donnie walsh is probably one of the very best at doing this....

    remember, again...we are not talking about larry brown....this is donnie walsh

  20. #320
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    wow...am i to assume that this or was, at the time, some sort of earthshattering scoop??? i can probably think of a number of things they were pissed about after losing the ECF...

    lol..cmon...

    humans are emotional....when did i say they werent?...however, successful businessmen dont succumb to making decisions based on said emotions...in fact they do just the opposite...and as i said....donnie walsh is probably one of the very best at doing this....

    remember, again...we are not talking about larry brown....this is donnie walsh.
    I think we're basically in agreement.

    But I wouldn't dismiss Ron's unusual behavior during the ECFs as being a strong indicator as to how they evaluated him as a player and what decisions stemmed from that.

  21. #321
    foretaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    I dont know for a fact, but from people I have talked to in the "know", at least in the Wizards organization, everyone is shopped. It can sometimes seem like its fantasy basketball. So I agree with your first part.

    You just dont want to seem to give up on the mindset that people were tired of him. We were given plenty of signs from managment that is was time for him to go, and I stronly beleive if the Maloofs would have pulled the trigger on Peja for Artest, that we wouldnt even be having this discussion. FOr better or worse, there is no doubt in my mind he would be gone.

    Right now the Maloof brothers look like geniouses (actually they did on 11/19) but thats a topic for another thread/day
    actually ur closer to understanding than u might think....

    u say u believe just about everyone is shopped....i agree...

    ur main reason for saying the pacers organization was tired of him is the fact that he was shopped and purportedly almost traded-though how close a trade is , to me, of little importance...it either is or isnt...but realize if everyone is shopped, that it cant mean theyre tired of him, for if it did, they would be tired of everyone...

    however....i think ur missing my point....

    whether or not the pacers were tired of him(which, how someone would know this is of little importance-let alone very subjective) MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IN THE OVERALL SCHEME OF THINGS....

    ok...i agree....the pacers were tired of him....so what...i think the whole notion is ridiculous....not only can i really not know, but it makes no difference...

    i get tired of things all the time...so what...some of things i enjoy i might get tired of occasionally....i love to play golf...more than anyone u know, i assure u....but there are those rare times where im flat tired of it and need to just take a break and get away....i clear my mind, rejuvenate and am rarin to go....

    i just dont get the significance that the pacers might have been tired of ron artest, except to those who seem to want validation that the crap ron has done is bad.....to which ive said...YUP...UR RIGHT...

    it simply makes no difference....i just want to say to people...so what? the only thing that matters is what u end up doing or not doing about it....in other words...whats the end result?? the end result was ron artest was a pacer and remains a pacer...and thats really all that matters to this point...

    its like some want to take this supposed notion of the organization tiring of him as some reason to say...see im right in my disdain for him...cause the pacers grew tired of his antics....hey...whatever...suit urself...if u have enuff convictions u dont need to twist and distort and most importantly interpret the feelings of others that u simply have no way of knowing, no matter what is 'purported' or otherwise...

    as ive said...if people wanna find a reason to hate...in this case artest....it wont be hard...

    i do wonder though....i wonder if the pacers organization 'tired' this season of being unable to defend any perimeter player of any significance....

  22. #322
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    This thread is really long... is it worth reading?

  23. #323
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    here...this might help to clarify things....

    ultimately im not really concerned about what herb and mel simon, donnie walsh, larry bird, or rick carlisle think.....they have my support and respect for this simple reason....they all have track records regarding what they do that strongly suggest they are very very good at what they do....

    and what that means to me is they are thinking of just about every angle possible at one point or another....regarding every situation....not just artest....i also understand they are human beings and subject to all the emotions that human beings are....

    one of the very reasons all these individuals are so successful is because they are able realize where emotion stops and rationale begins...theyre able to channel those emotions into the energy to make very wise and well thought out decisions....

    so...i trust them....and i have no interest in knowing what they were thinking so that i might second guess them down the road when things dont work out....and i do find it rather silly if u would believe they would allow any kind of info to get out that would allow this sort of thing....but thats off topic...

    all im ultimately really concerned about is what they DO....and shopping a player doesnt really qualify....if they trade that player-that does....i dont care about all the potential deals that almost happened...while fun maybe to discuss it has zero bearing on the situation....and when someone wants to say that this deal got exed because of this that and the other...i kinda laugh....u dont know that...u simply dont know that...u only know what people want u to know then u formulate that based on what ur personal desire is....

    i dont care who the pacers work out...i dont care who larry has scouted...once again...its fun for discussion....eliminates the boredom of the offseason....soon its gonna get really boring with a lockout....what i care about is who they draft or what sort of deal they make to trade that pick and how that impacts the team....

    these are ultimately the only things that matter....not what they think...what they do...and when u understand that there are many variables in this business or any other...u realize the possibility exists to always go back and second guess knowing what u know in the future...

    all u can do is realize the people making the decisions are very intelligent and proven...and they make the best decision they can based on everything they know at the time....given their track record....im cool with that....

    being one of the top teams in the league for about the last 15 years makes it pretty easy....i mean we could always be atlanta...or worse...the knicks

  24. #324
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Well KG is shopped around, but he wasnt about to go.

    If the Maloofs said "ok", then RA wouldnt be a Pacer.

    Regargless, its all a moot point seeing as none of the above happened.

    I have to go show a house, Ill check back into the thread when I get home...
    So, the bottom line is that you are "shoppin' that house" and you definitely "want it gone"?

    Just asking. Because I'd really have no way of knowing. Just a perception.

  25. #325
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So, the bottom line is that you are "shoppin' that house" and you definitely "want it gone"?

    Just asking. Because I'd really have no way of knowing. Just a perception.

    my guess is if he wants it gone he can definitely get rid of it.....if he wants to sell it to better himself or the owner-in this case make some benjamins, then he will only sell it if he gets what he wants out of it....

    in this day and age its not hard to get rid of something u want gone....

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