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Thread: An answer for Fortaz......

  1. #51
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Are you sure it wasn't "to the team?" To add on to that, what was the word that he said he didn't know the meaning of, and that he was going to ask his dad?
    Nope, here's the AP article:

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/score...IANA---0nr.htm
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #52
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Well you know when I read that article, I think to myself, "Ron wins another game for the Pacers" Or maybe that was what Rick said to the media

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    UncleBuck, Suaveness,

    How do I say this...

    Some of these guys do criminal things, or they take drugs, or they are punks. I don't like it but it happens and fortunately the Simons and DW have not subjected us to very many of these punks. But I don't know any of these guys personally so I don't care what they do to make a mess out of thier own personal life. What I care about is "the Pacers" and I do get pissed off when they make a mess out of their team.

    Said another way,

    When a guy that breaks the trust of his team... that really bothers me because basketball is about the best *team*, not the best collection of individual players.

    From a "what's bad for society" viewpoint, clearly those things are worse. From a "what's bad for the Pacers" viewpoint, I think Ron's crap is worse.





    Late EDIT - I'm not saying that the Rasheed/ officials incident and the Spree/ PJ incident are acceptable, just pointing out some differences. And while I spoke favorably of Rasheed, I don't condone his role in the decline of the Blazers.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  4. #54
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I was thinking it was this year's issue when he asked for time off.......

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Well you know when I read that article, I think to myself, "Ron wins another game for the Pacers" Or maybe that was what Rick said to the media
    That was also about the time that Rick allowed Tinsley off the end of the bench, so I think it was because of Tinsley.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  6. #56
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    I was thinking it was this year's issue when he asked for time off.......
    Well, Ron seems to slip a "conduct detrimental to x" into every season, doesn't he??

    Sorry, my smartass altar ego is on a roll.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  7. #57
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I'm not sure I get your question.

    I've generally liked 'Sheed more than many of you. I'll acknowledge, of course, that he has had major problems with referrees and was in a bad situation in Portland. But when I think of 'Sheed, I still think of the Rasheed Wallace from about 1998 - 2000 in Portland, playing with Brian Grant and Arvyddas Sabonas. Man, I loved that three-man rotation in the frontcourt. It really wasn't an insult to JO that he couldn't get any minutes, that was real depth. At that time, I felt that - even though he got a lot of technicals - that it didn't usually hurt his game and his teammates still believed in him. But that situation admittedly continued to get worse over time.

    I've always thought that the Rasheed that many of you ***** about was a byproduct of a bad environment, and a franchise that enabled him to get out of control in the early 2000s.

    But I've also always thought the Sprewell incident was very specific to a toxic relationship between PJ and Spree. Those of us that were already Spree fans saw something bad coming - Spree was desparate to get out and was openly begging opposing GMs and coaches to trade for him during games. He'd walk up to the oppenent's bench during FTs and beg them to trade for him just to get away from PJ. Sure he still says and does some stupid stuff, but this was also a guy that did everything JVG ever asked him to do and was generally highly regarded by his Knicks' teammates.

    So its not like I don't have any tolerance for *occasional* flareups or "bad boys."

    So I guess the answer to your question is that I see Ron's problems as being far worse than other notorious players like 'Sheed and Spree. I don't think 'Sheed, Spree, or other notorious all-star caliber players have ever been benched for "conduct detrimental to winning." - Rick's words, not mine.
    ummm....jay...tell the truth...do u have an artest file somewhere on ur computer that u use for quick reference??? cauuuuuuuse it sure seem so.... if so...can u email it to me??

    as far as sheed and spree go....im not sure if ur trying to play a game of symantics to embellish a point or not...

    sheed and spree have both been suspended and or fined for conduct detrimental to the team winning...

    now as far as the exact wording and who said what...well...like i said...is this symantics, which case people are arguiing and debating just because they like it...or if its sincere....then sheed and spree definitely are bad examples...as they have been punished for the same sort of thing....

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Well, Ron seems to slip a "conduct detrimental to x" into every season, doesn't he??

    Sorry, my smartass altar ego is on a roll.
    Caught AGAIN!

    I'm just going to have to place you on ignore.......

  9. #59
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    UncleBuck, Suaveness,

    How do I say this...

    Some of these guys do criminal things, or they take drugs, or they are punks. I don't like it but it happens and fortunately the Simons and DW have not subjected us to very many of these punks. But I don't know any of these guys personally so I don't care what they do to make a mess out of thier own personal life. What I care about is "the Pacers" and I do get pissed off when they make a mess out of their team.

    Said another way,

    When a guy that breaks the trust of his team... that really bothers me because basketball is about the best *team*, not the best collection of individual players.

    From a "what's bad for society" viewpoint, clearly those things are worse. From a "what's bad for the Pacers" viewpoint, I think Ron's crap is worse.


    I don't disagree with you, I too care more about the effect a player has on the Pacers team. By that I mean the total effect a player has on the Pacers team.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    ummm....jay...tell the truth...do u have an artest file somewhere on ur computer that u use for quick reference??? cauuuuuuuse it sure seem so.... if so...can u email it to me??

    as far as sheed and spree go....im not sure if ur trying to play a game of symantics to embellish a point or not...

    sheed and spree have both been suspended and or fined for conduct detrimental to the team winning...

    now as far as the exact wording and who said what...well...like i said...is this symantics, which case people are arguiing and debating just because they like it...or if its sincere....then sheed and spree definitely are bad examples...as they have been punished for the same sort of thing....
    Well, Spree may have been suspended by the Wolves, I guess I should've disclaimed that I was referring to his time with the Knicks. He also had the goofy "drive across the country to training camp" incident but for some reason that didn't really bother JVG or his teammates, and I'll admit that one would've bothered me.

    As for 'Sheed, I stopped watching the Blazers as much after we moved to Chicago in 2000. Since I now TiVo all the Pacers games and watch them later in the evening, I don't watch anywhere near as many WC games as I used to. So perhaps he was suspended for conduct detrimental to winning.

    Anyway, even if you take that point out of my post, it doesn't weaken my position.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  11. #61

    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    UncleBuck, Suaveness,

    How do I say this...

    Some of these guys do criminal things, or they take drugs, or they are punks. I don't like it but it happens and fortunately the Simons and DW have not subjected us to very many of these punks. But I don't know any of these guys personally so I don't care what they do to make a mess out of thier own personal life. What I care about is "the Pacers" and I do get pissed off when they make a mess out of their team.

    Said another way,

    When a guy that breaks the trust of his team... that really bothers me because basketball is about the best *team*, not the best collection of individual players.

    From a "what's bad for society" viewpoint, clearly those things are worse. From a "what's bad for the Pacers" viewpoint, I think Ron's crap is worse.

    I guess we just disagree, but I could never see how doing those things like drugs etc are not worse than what Ron does. Sure, it has to do with the personal life, but you can't say that it doesn't affect the team in some way. The other players on the team have to feel as though their teammate does some pretty bad things, and for me, that is worse than the on court "issues" Ron has.

    Ron's problem is that he is so much into the game. He gets carried away sometimes, and those outbursts result in the various things he has done. But he does it in the spirit of the game, not because he had been "doping up" the night before. Ron, from what we've heard, is a likeable guy, but his reputation is tarnished from the stuff we hear about. I have more assurances a guy like Ron can change than a person who does illegal things. I would like to think that Ron can become or is a great teammate, rather than someone who threatens to kill someone or chokes a coach etc.

    I believe that the "what's bad for society" stuff presides over anything else
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  12. #62
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Well, Spree may have been suspended by the Wolves, I guess I should've disclaimed that I was referring to his time with the Knicks. He also had the goofy "drive across the country to training camp" incident but for some reason that didn't really bother JVG or his teammates, and I'll admit that one would've bothered me.

    As for 'Sheed, I stopped watching the Blazers as much after we moved to Chicago in 2000. Since I now TiVo all the Pacers games and watch them later in the evening, I don't watch anywhere near as many WC games as I used to. So perhaps he was suspended for conduct detrimental to winning.

    Anyway, even if you take that point out of my post, it doesn't weaken my position.
    hmmm....interesting...

  13. #63
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    I guess we just disagree, but I could never see how doing those things like drugs etc are not worse than what Ron does. Sure, it has to do with the personal life, but you can't say that it doesn't affect the team in some way. The other players on the team have to feel as though their teammate does some pretty bad things, and for me, that is worse than the on court "issues" Ron has.

    Ron's problem is that he is so much into the game. He gets carried away sometimes, and those outbursts result in the various things he has done. But he does it in the spirit of the game, not because he had been "doping up" the night before. Ron, from what we've heard, is a likeable guy, but his reputation is tarnished from the stuff we hear about. I have more assurances a guy like Ron can change than a person who does illegal things. I would like to think that Ron can become or is a great teammate, rather than someone who threatens to kill someone or chokes a coach etc.

    I believe that the "what's bad for society" stuff presides over anything else
    i strongly agree with ur first paragraph....my personal views on drugs and what have u dictate that their is no comparison to a person doing drugs versus breaking a play in a game...though i do understand jay and wouldnt disagree with him in the context of which might be worse from a winning standpoint.

    however i strongly, and i do mean strongly, disagree with ur second paragraph here...and i think, from what im gather from peck, that this might be one of the things that so infuriates these guys that have such disdain for artest....its basically offering up the excuse that ron does these things because hes so competitive and wants to win so badly....

    i say Bull$**** to that...and i like artest(shhhh...dont tell anyone)....his actions are inexcusable...and the reason he does them has nothing to do with what u mention....the things u say about him are true....they just are totally irrelevant when it comes to why he 'misbehaves' shall we say....

    to misunderstand the problem will only further the problem....please...if u like ron...dont say that...it does him, his detractors, his fans, and his team no good...it really doesnt....

    once someone gets a really good understanding of to why he does what he does then they might be alot closer to ron realizing his phenomenal talent...and im drawing closer to getting into that in my responses to pecks post

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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    I guess we just disagree, but I could never see how doing those things like drugs etc are not worse than what Ron does. Sure, it has to do with the personal life, but you can't say that it doesn't affect the team in some way. The other players on the team have to feel as though their teammate does some pretty bad things, and for me, that is worse than the on court "issues" Ron has.

    Ron's problem is that he is so much into the game. He gets carried away sometimes, and those outbursts result in the various things he has done. But he does it in the spirit of the game, not because he had been "doping up" the night before. Ron, from what we've heard, is a likeable guy, but his reputation is tarnished from the stuff we hear about. I have more assurances a guy like Ron can change than a person who does illegal things. I would like to think that Ron can become or is a great teammate, rather than someone who threatens to kill someone or chokes a coach etc.

    I believe that the "what's bad for society" stuff presides over anything else
    But we all work with/ know people that make a mess out of thier personal lives. Some of them can 'leave it at the door', others can't. The guy next to me can drink shots until 2am and still be at work by 8:30am, ready to add value to his consulting clients. I can't... but that's a different story altogether.

    I'm not saying those things are acceptable, because they aren't. And I would ***** about them it if those were Pacers players. But I think what Ron does - and the fact that he does it on an unpredictable yet recurring basis - is at least as bad or worse.


    EDIT - It like we've just read Inferno and we're in English class debating which level of Hell we'd prefer. Its all HELL!! I don't want any part of any of it!!
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  15. #65

    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    i strongly agree with ur first paragraph....my personal views on drugs and what have u dictate that their is no comparison to a person doing drugs versus breaking a play in a game...though i do understand jay and wouldnt disagree with him in the context of which might be worse from a winning standpoint.

    however i strongly, and i do mean strongly, disagree with ur second paragraph here...and i think, from what im gather from peck, that this might be one of the things that so infuriates these guys that have such disdain for artest....its basically offering up the excuse that ron does these things because hes so competitive and wants to win so badly....

    i say Bull$**** to that...and i like artest(shhhh...dont tell anyone)....his actions are inexcusable...and the reason he does them has nothing to do with what u mention....the things u say about him are true....they just are totally irrelevant when it comes to why he 'misbehaves' shall we say....

    to misunderstand the problem will only further the problem....please...if u like ron...dont say that...it does him, his detractors, his fans, and his team no good...it really doesnt....

    once someone gets a really good understanding of to why he does what he does then they might be alot closer to ron realizing his phenomenal talent...and im drawing closer to getting into that in my responses to pecks post
    Don't get me wrong, I in no way endorse what Ron did, nor am I saying that what he did was right or excusable. He was wrong, and he did something really stupid this year.

    But I don't believe him to be this crazed lunatic that many think he is. I think what he does is correctable, and though he did something stupid, I think that he is fully capable of coming back next year and performing like an allstar. What kind of excuse can you give for the way he acts on the court? Stupid? Crazed? Mentally incapable? Who knows, because honestly none of us have a clue. But I believe that the he gets lost in the game sometimes, and because he doesn't know where not to cross the line sometimes, it results in smashed cameras and going into the stands.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  16. #66
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    Don't get me wrong, I in no way endorse what Ron did, nor am I saying that what he did was right or excusable. He was wrong, and he did something really stupid this year.

    But I don't believe him to be this crazed lunatic that many think he is. I think what he does is correctable, and though he did something stupid, I think that he is fully capable of coming back next year and performing like an allstar. What kind of excuse can you give for the way he acts on the court? Stupid? Crazed? Mentally incapable? Who knows, because honestly none of us have a clue. But I believe that the he gets lost in the game sometimes, and because he doesn't know where not to cross the line sometimes, it results in smashed cameras and going into the stands.
    He did two really stupid things this year. But you usually pretend the behind-the-scenes stuff isn't real.

    FWIW, I don't care about the brawl anymore. And most of the other on-court stuff is not all that big of a deal in comparison to what the rest of us are all talking about - "Conduct detrimental to winning," which is far more than just Ron's history of temper tantrums.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  17. #67

    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    He did two really stupid things this year. But you usually pretend the behind-the-scenes stuff isn't real.

    FWIW, I don't care about the brawl anymore. And most of the other on-court stuff is not all that big of a deal in comparison to what the rest of us are all talking about - "Conduct detrimental to winning," which is far more than just Ron's history of temper tantrums.
    I don't worry about the "behind-the-scenes" stuff because it isn't something that they have said publically. I'm just hearing that from so called sources, and I'd rather be skeptical about such things.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  18. #68
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    FWIW, I don't care about the brawl anymore. And most of the other on-court stuff is not all that big of a deal in comparison to what the rest of us are all talking about - "Conduct detrimental to winning," which is far more than just Ron's history of temper tantrums.
    I agree with you, IF we know all the details. It's paraded around that he wanted to retire, but I have a really really really hard time seeing how someone can say they want to completely retire, but be okay to only sit out two games. We don't have the priveledge to be a fly on the wall in the Pacers' org. so to say that just how bad his conduct is with out all the facts isn't quite fair to anyone involved.

    Especially seeing how this year's postseason panned out with Jax. Ron wasn't around, so he couldn't be the common denominator, and Stephen wasn't here last year, so he couldn't be either.

  19. #69
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    I don't worry about the "behind-the-scenes" stuff because it isn't something that they have said publically. I'm just hearing that from so called sources, and I'd rather be skeptical about such things.
    Okay.

    Bury your head in the sand

    Meaning
    Refuse to confront or acknowledge a problem.

    Origin

    Comes from the supposed habit of ostriches when faced with attack by predators. Ostriches don't really do this, they just lower their heads to the ground.

    http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/80800.html
    You'd think, with as many sources reporting so many various problems, that you'd be skeptical of the "everything's hunkey-dorey" spin the Pacers and IndyStar put on the situation. But whatever floats your boat...

    Never mind the fact that if the Pacers really wanted to trade Ron because he was such a disruption, the absolute last thing they'd ever tell anyone is, "Man, this guys is a real headache behind the scenes. Austin was spot-on in his comments to The Times. We don't want this idiot to ever set foot in our lockerroom again." Wow, the offers would just come pouring in after that announcement.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  20. #70
    foretaz
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Which bring me to issue # 2.

    There is a segment of us out there that turned against Ron a long time ago. The brawl in the Palace was not a suprise to many of us, it was fullfilment of prophecy that some of us had been saying for a long time.

    (in fairness I will admit that none of us would have ever dreamed possible the amount of damage that he was able to do to the franchise on that night but just weeks before it happened both Jay & myself were saying that he was going to tear the entire franchise down & boy did he ever)

    You see a lot of people are at the stage with Ron now that they say "well let's give him one more chance & if he screws up again I'm done with him". To me, I was at that over a year ago. So last season wasn't a "one more chance issue" it was just "one more thing".

    I'm pretty sure it was two seasons ago that I started getting to the point where I didn't care for him. When he hit AK47 that pretty much disgusted me but didn't put me over the edge, however I was very leary of him from that point on. But when I saw Mel Daniels litterally pushing & shoving him into the locker room after that loss in Boston I knew I was done with him. That was the second time I had seen him go after a fan, the first was at the fieldhouse when he went after our famos blond lady from the front row when he was with the Bulls.

    Ok, again I've gone off-track let me see if I can put this together.

    I was against Ron long before the brawl, in fact I spent the entire last summer doing two things.

    1. B*tching that Brad Miller was traded.
    2. B*tching that Ron Artest was not.

    I guess I just want you to know that because I don't want you to think I'm just pileing on after a bad incident.

    this issue im not so sure about....i think it might be redundant , by in large, but the message i think im getting is that u didnt start disliking ron today or yesterday but some time ago....

    which tells me u then might possibly hold certain resentments because others didnt agree with u to the point that they didnt get rid of artest last summer....if so , hypothetically speaking the inference is the brawl wouldnt have happened and therefore the franchise wouldnt have been 'taken down'....

    im not really sure how u can say the franchise has been taken down...i do feel it definitely was jolted...and some damage was definitely done....i also feel like that is hardly all rons fault and it appears the owners of that franchise as well as the management of that franchise at least partially share that same viewpoint....however ron certainly qualifies for an easy whipping boy when it comes to finding someone to blame for anything that doesnt go right for teh pacers...whether its last years playoff loss in game 6 or the brawl or whatever it might be....hes one of the best players on the team with obvious issues -hes an easy target....which means very easy to dislike....

    so yes...u keep up bringing more reasons u dont like ron...and yes...as ive said with regards to the others....i agree one hundred percent that the sort of behavior that u describe is detestable...going after fans is never a good thing...getting into it with mel isnt a good thing....though most of these things u mention u also mention that they just reconfirmed what u already believed....which is another way of saying u didnt like him....cause as weve said...once u dont like someone...u will always be able to find reasons to dislike them...and ur viewing of him will always be from that context and mindset.....

    but i get it...u dont like ron....and u havent for quite some time now....thats the overall gist of this issue...and everything that happens once u made this conscious decision to not like him because of his behavior has reconfirmed that.....

  21. #71
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    I agree with you, IF we know all the details. It's paraded around that he wanted to retire, but I have a really really really hard time seeing how someone can say they want to completely retire, but be okay to only sit out two games. We don't have the priveledge to be a fly on the wall in the Pacers' org. so to say that just how bad his conduct is with out all the facts isn't quite fair to anyone involved.

    Especially seeing how this year's postseason panned out with Jax. Ron wasn't around, so he couldn't be the common denominator, and Stephen wasn't here last year, so he couldn't be either.
    We know enough to know its pretty bad, even if we don't know how bad.

    I don't understand what you are getting at in your last paragraph?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  22. #72
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    I guess we just disagree, but I could never see how doing those things like drugs etc are not worse than what Ron does. Sure, it has to do with the personal life, but you can't say that it doesn't affect the team in some way. The other players on the team have to feel as though their teammate does some pretty bad things, and for me, that is worse than the on court "issues" Ron has.

    Ron's problem is that he is so much into the game. He gets carried away sometimes, and those outbursts result in the various things he has done. But he does it in the spirit of the game, not because he had been "doping up" the night before. Ron, from what we've heard, is a likeable guy, but his reputation is tarnished from the stuff we hear about. I have more assurances a guy like Ron can change than a person who does illegal things. I would like to think that Ron can become or is a great teammate, rather than someone who threatens to kill someone or chokes a coach etc.

    I believe that the "what's bad for society" stuff presides over anything else
    So is Ron saying he wants to retire 5 games into the season done "in the spirit of the game?"

  23. #73

    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Okay.



    You'd think, with as many sources reporting so many various problems, that you'd be skeptical of the "everything's hunkey-dorey" spin the Pacers and IndyStar put on the situation. But whatever floats your boat...

    Never mind the fact that if the Pacers really wanted to trade Ron because he was such a disruption, the absolute last thing they'd ever tell anyone is, "Man, this guys is a real headache behind the scenes. Austin was spot-on in his comments to The Times. We don't want this idiot to ever set foot in our lockerroom again." Wow, the offers would just come pouring in after that announcement.
    If that is how they feel, then so be it. But it isn't something that is said publically, and like I said, if I believe every behind the scenes report, I wouldn't know what to think. I'd like to believe that whatever Bird and Walsh do, it is for the benefit of the team. If Ron is in fact moved from the team, I will not question the fact that it was because he did not get along with others, especially Jermaine. But since he is still here, I can't think that way.

    Obviously, if he is such a problem, they wouldn't say it publically. But they truly wanted to get rid of him, wouldn't they have done so already? I mean, yes they probably wouldn't get full value, but they believe he is such a detriment to this team, he would already be gone. The fact that he is still here means they still beleive in the kid, and I am willing and wanting to accept that.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  24. #74

    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    So is Ron saying he wants to retire 5 games into the season done "in the spirit of the game?"
    No that was stupid. But people forget that his grandmother had just died, so it wouldn't be wrong to feel that way. He just doesn't know how to say/express something without sounding as though he's gone crazy.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  25. #75
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: An answer for Fortaz......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    We know enough to know its pretty bad, even if we don't know how bad.

    I don't understand what you are getting at in your last paragraph?

    Ron was blamed for the rift between him and JO. JO telling Ron that he(Ron) couldn't get on his(JO's) plane, and such. Jax wasn't around last year, so he couldn't be part of that problem.

    This year, a problem arises between Jax and Mr. X, but most believe JO. Obviously Ron wasn't around, so he can't be a part of this either.

    I'm starting to lean more towards JO just doesn't really know how to be a leader, or a teammate for that matter. To me he just seems like he has an attitude about him, and has his own layed out plans, and if you don't fall in line or fit his plan he gets verbal. That's what I'm saying without knowing all the facts. It could most definately be all Ron, but at the same time he might just be JOs scapegoat for his emotions.

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