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Thread: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

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    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
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    Default Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    I liked this article, its positive and realistic, I humbly think are options are not limited to : Hope PG sings an extension, or trade him to LA

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/tr...imited-pacers/

    The person most upset about Paul George not getting All-NBA honors is definitely Paul George. George missed out on being eligible for an extension worth $70 million more if the media voting had deemed him one of the top six forwards in the league this season.
    But almost as upset as George were the people who were going to pay him that extra $70 million. The Pacers seemed to have been dealt a massive blow in their efforts to retain George, which already seemed slim.

    Just to review:
    He started off the season by saying there was "no trust, no chemistry."
    He followed up in December, saying the season wasn't any fun and that he missed his old team that competed for conference titles.
    He said there was a "dark cloud" over the Pacers.
    George was unhappy about how communication was handled at the trade deadline when his name was part of talks.
    He said he "wasn't even at that point" to think about his future in Indy when asked about it after the Pacers' season ended, despite being under contract for another season.
    And George was recruited awkwardly by Magic Johnson on national television, and said he would be working out with Kobe Bryant. There are multiple reports linking him to interest in the Lakers.
    Then, on top of everything else, Larry Bird stepped down as Indiana's president of basketball operations last month, signaling to many that a true rebuild might be on the way after trading George.
    Losing a superstar like George is devastating. There's a reason teams try to avoid losing top players. The Magic traded Dwight Howard in 2012 and still haven't found a way back. It can take a decade to recover. So the Pacers are going to have to get together multiple plans, and fast, and know what they're doing to try and get ahead of the situation.

    Option 1: From our cold, dead hands
    This strategy follows a simple paradigm -- because you're very unlikely to be able to replace George if you trade him, and that even if you find another star, you're looking at several years until he's ready to compete, your best option is to fight to keep him to the bitter end.
    This is where the All-NBA vote hurts. If the Pacers could offer George an extension worth $70 million more, it would have pushed George to the limit of how much money one person can turn down. The Pacers can still offer more money and years than any team, including L.A., but the difference becomes at least easier to walk away from after the All-NBA vote.
    The basic plan now starts with doing everything possible to upgrade the roster this summer. Jeff Teague is a free agent, and the Pacers are going to need a starting point guard. Whoever it was that gave George such consternation with his attitude, they need to be gone. Keeping George is worth it. Trading one of Monta Ellis or Thaddeus Young would clear some cap space to add some upgrades ... but the point guard position is pretty bare this summer. Teague is realistically the fourth- or fifth-best player at the position available, even with the fact he's going to demand a huge salary at age 30.
    Keep Teague, and you don't have the option of improving the roster.
    You put off moving George as long as possible, hope that next season is better and things come together, and try and find deals during the season or at the deadline, then focus on having the most money to throw at George. It's not a great plan, and the conventional wisdom says you need to make sure you get something for George. But if you know you're not getting great return anyway and a rebuild is inevitable, taking that chance is an option.

    Option 2: Get ahead of the game
    Any conversations with the Lakers start with the No. 2 overall pick in next month's NBA Draft. They just have to. There's no way you can do a deal with the Lakers and not get that selection, particularly since the Lakers don't own their 2018 pick. The Lakers, Lonzo Ball fans that they are, probably balk, but that's why if the Pacers are going to go down this road, they have to establish, and inflate, a market for George. The Celtics will be interested, and have the Nets' 2018 pick.
    The backlash is going to be "Why should the Lakers give up assets for a player who wants to come there in a year anyway?"
    Well, it's a gamble. If they don't trade for him, he could wind up being traded to Boston, loving it and re-signing there. Or any other team. If the Lakers decide that the No. 2 pick is a non-starter and they're not going to give up anything of real value for a player they could just get in free agency, the Pacers are going to have to make a tough decision. If it's Luol Deng and a second-rounder, you're better off letting him walk. The cap space alone has better value. If it's Julius Randle or D'Angelo Russell and filler? Is that enough?
    Let's say the Lakers bite on it, though. Let's say they offer the No. 2 overall pick, Julius Randle and filler contracts in Tarik Black and Corey Brewer for George. (Note: They have to draft Ball and then trade him due to the "Stepien Rule" preventing trading first-round picks in consecutive years.)
    In that scenario, the Pacers can acquire Ball, the consensus No. 2 pick in the draft, and rebuild around Ball, Randle and Myles Turner, and have a good team, with the upside of being great. If they can figure out a way to offload Young and Ellis, they basically have a clean slate.
    However, here's another idea:
    Indiana could make the pre-draft agreement to trade George for Ball, and then swap Ball. The Pacers could send Ball to Sacramento for the fifth and 10th picks, conceivably, giving them theoretically De'Aaron Fox and Zach Collins or Lauri Markkanen, as a stretch-four/five next to Turner. Congratulations, you have successfully rebuilt the Pacers in one fell swoop.
    Alternatively, snag the No. 2 pick, and offer Ball to Orlando for the No. 6 pick, Elfrid Payton and Mario Hezonja. Not great return, but moving back four spots still allows you to take one of Josh Jackson, Fox, Malik Monk or Jayson Tatum most likely. Monk, Payton and Hezonja (on a flyer) is pretty good.
    Of course, if you're going to go that route, you could just offer George straight up to Orlando, but without a promise of return, it's unlikely the Magic would accept.
    The Timberwolves, however...
    The Wolves have the No. 7 pick, so you're in range to still get a very talented player, and they have Zach LaVine. LaVine is coming off an ACL injury, so you have to be confident he's going to recover. But before that injury, he looked like he was headed for James Harden territory, a player too good to stay as a third option, but one who was never going to be more with the Wolves. If they could add Paul George to Karl-Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins? That's a terrifying core. Plus, George gets to play for Tom Thibodeau, a well-respected coach he has worked with at Team USA.

    These are all hypotheticals, though. Maybe the Lakers won't offer Ball at all. Maybe the Wolves think LaVine is too valuable to surrender, and certainly not without a pick, and don't believe he'll re-sign. There are always ways these things seem like good ideas on the surface, or at least to one side, and the other side thinks it's a horrific idea they would never do. But for Indiana, these options are not only relatively appealing, they might honestly provide more hope than their current course.
    To have two young players and a top-10 pick in a loaded draft is one of the few scenarios that might be better than having a true superstar with little chance of building a contending team around him.
    Of course, there's one more team the Pacers can look to make a deal with: the team with the No. 1 pick, the Celtics.
    Unfortunately, you're not peeling that No. 1 pick away from Danny Ainge, not even for George. However, they do have good talent and the Nets' 2018 pick. Perhaps the Celtics would part with the Nets' pick in 2018, Avery Bradley (since they can't feasibly pay both Isaiah Thomas and Bradley next summer, especially if they add George), Jae Crowder and maybe throw in one of the two extra picks (Clippers, Grizzlies) they have in 2019 as insurance. Then the Celtics get to keep Thomas, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier and Al Horford while adding George and Markelle Fultz. Even for Ainge, that's pretty good.
    But of course, you run into the same logic problem. Why would the Celtics offer up assets for George when they could just sign him in free agency? Well, for starters, it's not like they can keep everyone from their current core and add George. There's just not enough room in the rotation. Second, as with the Lakers, you run the risk of L.A. swooping in and grabbing him.
    The Celtics have the best set of assets for a reasonable trade partner, and have them to spare. But they had them at the trade deadline, too, and opted to wait. It cannot be overstated how the Celtics want to win a trade by large margins.
    The leverage problem
    All of this feeds into the fact that the Pacers' leverage has been compromised. George is not expected to re-sign, and he has telegraphed a specific destination. For Indiana to re-establish leverage in a deal, it has to take one of two approaches.
    Wait it out, letting the market grow for George between now and the deadline. This comes with risk, if things go south and they improve for the potential suitors, things can go downhill in a hurry. You can wind up with a worse deal.
    Try and get ahead of it. You make a deal unexpectedly early, catch the market off guard with an opportunity to get ahead of a bidding war, and prosper. The Jazz did this with Deron Williams in 2011. No extended drama of trade talks, no distractions, a quick cut of the cord.
    In the end, this is the central problem the Pacers will face, and they'll have to sort through all these options, including just letting George walk at season's end. Something is better than nothing in terms of return, but if the return is only marginal impact, and players you have to tie yourself to despite concerns, whatever they might be, it might just not be worth it. The Pacers had a championship-caliber team just a few years ago. But how they manage however long is left of the Paul George era in Indy will have drastic consequence on the future of the franchise.
    That bolded part , to me, is the best way to go moving forward
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    The market for George will grow towards the deadline, but the price will drop. Teams will offer less and less, believing the Pacers will eventually have to take whatever they can get for him. The Celtics aren't going to deal the Nets 2018 1st for him, short of a commitment on George's part, or unless the nets make a miracle recovery next season and devalue their pick.
    Last edited by Kstat; 05-31-2017 at 05:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    I would rather wait and see if the super max and a summer or 2 of movescan save us before trading him for nothing.

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    let's do better Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    the price drops by the day. ok maybe not day, but there are dates it gets less and less. draft night is the 1st, then opening day, then the deadline.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    But, what if we keep PG for next year, extend him for more money than anyone else can pay, then trade him? Could his asking price be more or less than keeping him for one more year? How long after the draft can we still trade him?

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Very good article. From a purely front office PoV, some interesting things there I hadn't considered.

    That being said, I'm willing to take the 'KD to the Warriors' worst case scenario. Again, with the same caveat I always give; that Paul has told KP straight to his face he will NOT re-sign or demands a trade behind closed doors.

    Yep, I'm stubborn and probably shortsighted. Whatever. If there is even a miniscule chance of retaining PG, I want us to pursue that path.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    But, what if we keep PG for next year, extend him for more money than anyone else can pay, then trade him? Could his asking price be more or less than keeping him for one more year? How long after the draft can we still trade him?
    If Paul George signs another contract in Indiana then why would you trade him at all? That would imply he wants to stay in Indiana.
    Last edited by Kstat; 05-31-2017 at 06:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    But, what if we keep PG for next year, extend him for more money than anyone else can pay, then trade him? Could his asking price be more or less than keeping him for one more year? How long after the draft can we still trade him?
    He won't sign an extension at currently eligible levels, and (as I understand it) the DPE special maxes he would qualify for by re-signing after making All-NBA don't allow him to be traded in the first year of his new contract.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If Paul George signs another contract in Indiana then why would you trade him at all?
    I think the idea would be to do a sign-and-trade because Paul wants out. Not something I would see us doing even if it were possible, considering what we'd have to take on in exchange contract-wise.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    let's do better Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    no idea if it applies for the DPE, but PG signed his first extension before he actually qualified for the Rose Rule. he did, then he got 27.5% of the cap instead of 25% (coulda demanded 30% btw). if that kind of contingency is available, and he's still balking, well...

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I think the idea would be to do a sign-and-trade because Paul wants out. Not something I would see us doing even if it were possible, considering what we'd have to take on in exchange contract-wise.
    That wouldn't benefit the Pacers at all. George would be picking his destination, at which point the pacers would have to accept whatever table scraps the other team was willing to offer them, all so Paul George could earn a few more bucks from his next team. It's not like they could sign him and then auction him off to the highest bidder. That's not how sign and trades work.

    Paul George's motivation isn't to ensure the Pacers get value for him in trade. That's Pritchard's job, not his.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    no idea if it applies for the DPE, but PG signed his first extension before he actually qualified for the Rose Rule. he did, then he got 27.5% of the cap instead of 25% (coulda demanded 30% btw). if that kind of contingency is available, and he's still balking, well...
    This is a really important question to answer.
    "He's a strong physical presence out there on both ends of the court. He's a man. There's a reason he was an All-Star." -- Vogel on David West

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    the price drops by the day. ok maybe not day, but there are dates it gets less and less. draft night is the 1st, then opening day, then the deadline.
    You could argue that the deadline this past season was one of those dates too.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Another "Roll the dice and hope he stays" article. Not falling for it unless Paul George says he wants to stay.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    You could argue that the deadline this past season was one of those dates too.
    The clock really started at the end of last season. Not that Bird was going to entertain offers for him then, but he obviously wasn't ever going to do that.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    One major reason why the "waiting it out" option is so suicidal... it's the assuming that Paul George is going to keep his mouth shut for the entire season.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    One major reason why the "waiting it out" option is so suicidal... it's the assuming that Paul George is going to keep his mouth shut for the entire season.
    Paul keeping his mouth shut is exactly the problem. Every word he doesn't say is simply said for him in the media. Meanwhile, his hands are clean.

    Carmelo did the exact same thing. Wouldn't comment but also wouldn't deny anything. The player usually shuts his mouth and lets his agent orchestrate things behind the scenes.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Paul keeping his mouth shut is exactly the problem. Every word he doesn't say is simply said for him in the media. Meanwhile, his hands are clean.

    Carmelo did the exact same thing. Wouldn't comment but also wouldn't deny anything. The player usually shuts his mouth and lets his agent orchestrate things behind the scenes.
    Touche. I was thinking more about his "I'm trying to be a leader" comments. IF Indiana decides to roll dice on him, I give him until late November or early December before he makes the "I don't think the team is going in the right direction" statements.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Paul keeping his mouth shut is exactly the problem. Every word he doesn't say is simply said for him in the media. Meanwhile, his hands are clean.

    Carmelo did the exact same thing. Wouldn't comment but also wouldn't deny anything. The player usually shuts his mouth and lets his agent orchestrate things behind the scenes.
    And Durant said he was happy in OKC all season. It's a no win.

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    let's do better Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    this is gonna be a thing obviously, so we need a PG trade scenario thread, and no one visits the trade forum.

    I think Tyler Johnson + Justise Winslow + McBob (for money, he's expiring next year) + pick 14/future top 10ish protected 1st is a really realistic scenario come draft night. letting Teague walk comes with that.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    this is gonna be a thing obviously, so we need a PG trade scenario thread, and no one visits the trade forum.

    I think Tyler Johnson + Justise Winslow + McBob (for money, he's expiring next year) + pick 14/future top 10ish protected 1st is a really realistic scenario come draft night. letting Teague walk comes with that.
    I would rather let PG expire! TJ contract and junk! Nah.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    I don't care what anyone says, few come to mind on this forum, but there will be *at least* one team out of 29 that is willing to take a "gamble" & trade the Pacers some assets for Paul George.

    I would love to go back to the summer of 2012 right after we got knocked out of the ECF & post a poll to ask PD if we had the chance to trade some 1st round draft picks & a player or two for a 1-year Carmelo Anthony who "made it clear" he just wanted to win, like PG, (27/28 years old @ the time who was an All-Star *pretend he had 1 year left on a contract*). I'll bet 100% of you would have said yes. We go in 2012-2013 with G3, Melo, PG, West, Roy, Lance & we might get past Miami in ECF....and who knows maybe Melo resigns here because we were so close to a title.

    That's what a team is gonna do with PG. Pritchard just needs to be smart & deal him & not risk him walking next summer. Portland is a team I can see offering a legitimate offer with their 3 1st round picks & players. CJ McCullum has made it public he wants PG this summer via trade. Lillard, McCullum, PG is a nice Big 3 & I can see Paul liking it there.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Paul keeping his mouth shut is exactly the problem. Every word he doesn't say is simply said for him in the media. Meanwhile, his hands are clean.

    Carmelo did the exact same thing. Wouldn't comment but also wouldn't deny anything. The player usually shuts his mouth and lets his agent orchestrate things behind the scenes.


    Melo to New York was a unique situation. His wife wanted that move just as much as Melo did. She wanted tv roles, movie roles, etc. Melo was originally from NY so it was a homecoming for him. Paul's situation is different. Also Paul's been taking pics with Pacers gear all off-season. Plus his new line of shoes have Pacer and Fever ties. I just think he's more likely to say if Pritchard makes the right plays this off-season.

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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    That's what a team is gonna do with PG. Pritchard just needs to be smart & deal him & not risk him walking next summer. Portland is a team I can see offering a legitimate offer with their 3 1st round picks & players. CJ McCullum has made it public he wants PG this summer via trade. Lillard, McCullum, PG is a nice Big 3 & I can see Paul liking it there.
    so of Lillard and McCollum are part of the Big 3 the hell are they trading for PG?

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    let's do better Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trading Paul George to Lakers or Celtics aren't only options for limited Pacers

    gotta make the money, and NTC, work, but Melo's readily available if they can sell him on it. no disillusions that he'd take us anywhere but maybe the 2nd round, but he wouldn't cost much in terms of assets and when it doesn't work he can walk next summer just like PG. think that's the kinda move PG would get off on.

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