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Thread: Something I totally forgot about...

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    Member Mr. Pink's Avatar
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    Default Something I totally forgot about...

    Last year, around November, I was writing a persuasive essay about why Reggie Miller should be in the NBA's 50th Greatest Players list. I promised to put it up when I got my grade on it and had it returned. Welp, here it is. I got an A on the paper as well. I finished this on the 9th of November. A lot of the stats aren't updated.
    __________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
    The NBA’s Top 50 Greatest Players of All-Time List must drop one of the existing players to make way for another player who deserves to be there. Reggie Miller may never have been a top-ten player throughout his career, but his contributions to the game, individual career statistics, and performance are impressive enough to easily put him on the list.

    Reggie Miller, a five-time All-Star (1990, ‘95, ‘96, ‘98, and 2000) was drafted as the 11th overall pick by the Indiana Pacers in 1987. Since then he has been named to the All-NBA Third team three times in 1994-95, 1995-96, and 1997-98. He was named to the 1987-88 NBA All-Rookie Second Team after averaging 10.0 points per game and 2.3 rebounds per game during the regular season. (“NBA.com: Reggie Miller Bio”)

    The main statistic about Reggie Miller that should be considered with high appreciation is how many games he has played with the Pacers. Only other two players, Utah’s Stockton and Malone, have played more games with the same team (“NBA.com: Reggie Miller Bio”). Reggie has played 1,323 games in his career. That puts him 7th on the NBA’s All-Time list of games played (“NBA.com”). Until recently, out of 18 years of playing NBA basketball, Reggie has only missed 31 games due to injury. Every single NBA minute that he has played was in a Pacers uniform. Altogether he has recorded 45,514 minutes, putting him 8th in most minutes ever played (“NBA.com”). In 1993,
    Reggie became the Pacers’ All-Time leading scorer. In 1995, he was the first Pacer to start in an NBA All-Star game. Furthermore, he is 2nd in all-time Pacers assists’ behind Vern Fleming (“NBA.com: Reggie Miller Bio”).

    Reggie’s three-point shooting is what defined his career. Larry Brown, former Pacer coach and now Detroit Pistons’ coach, said, “…He’s the best I’ve ever seen. No matter how many times he shoots or his field goal percentage, he never stops working. … You let up on him one time and he kills you. That’s why he’s so special. Amid all the change (with the Pacers’ franchise) he’s been the one constant. … On the court he stretches your defense."(“Pacers: Quotes: Pacers-Pistons G1”) Miller has hit more three-pointers in his career than any other player. His record setting 2,464 three-point shots made has put him 1st in that category (“NBA.com”). For fifteen consecutive seasons, Reggie surpassed 100 three-pointers made, another NBA record (“NBA.com: Reggie Miller Bio”). His three-point percentage is .398, 24th best of all time (“NBA.com”). The 3-pt FG was not introduced into the NBA until the 1980 season. In the first few years, no team really shot many. Miller entered the league in 1988, and by 1998, he was the all time leader. Now, he’s putting serious distance between himself and all others (“Pacers: New Book Ranks Reggie Among NBA’s 50 Greatest”).

    Another achievement is being 14th on the all-time scorers’ list, surpassing the famous Charles Barkley. Reggie has scored 24,305 points in his career; 526 points away from the 13th position. He also has a career average of 18.4 points (“NBA.com: Reggie Miller Bio”). Miller averaged at least 18 points per game in 12 different seasons. There are only five other players to have accomplished this feat: Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Karl Malone, John Havlicek, Elvin Hayes, and Moses Malone (“Pacers: New Book Ranks Reggie Among NBA’s 50 Greatest”). Miller led the league in free-throw percentage in 1998-99 and 2000-01(“NBA.com: Reggie Miller Bio”). He has the 6th best percentage of All-time with a remarkable .889 percent. He has attempted 6,758 free-throws and hit 5,987 (“NBA.com”). Those numbers are the highest on that list.

    The main reason Reggie Miller should be included on the list is because of his playoff performances. Reggie is known for throwing a dagger into many players’ and fans’ hearts with late three-pointers. His playoff career point average is 21.2 points per game Miller has raised his scoring average from the season to the playoffs. He just recently passed Bill Russell for the 22nd spot on the Playoff’s All-time scoring list. (“NBA.com: Reggie Miller Bio”) Reggie Miller earned his nickname, “Mr. Clutch,” after repeated clutch performances. Mark Jackson, former point guard for the Indiana Pacers, said, “If I was red-hot and Reggie’s ice cold, I’d still rather have him take the shot.” (“Reggie Misc. Info”) When there are clips of greatest playoff moments, you will always find two or three with Reggie Miller on center stage. There are many examples of Reggie’s awesome ability to take over games in the final minutes, but consider the following two examples.

    In 1994, during the 5th game of the Eastern Conference Finals at New York, the Pacers were down 70-58 heading into the fourth quarter. Miller seized the stage at Madison Square Garden with his breathtaking display of long-range shooting in the fourth quarter. Making 5-of-5 three pointers, he scored 25 points in the fourth quarter to lead Indiana to a 93-86 win. (“Reggie Misc. Info”)

    In the 1995 Eastern Conference Semifinals, Reggie Miller delivered another astonishing playoff performance. In the final minutes of Game 1at New York, the Pacers found themselves trailing at 105-99. With twenty seconds remaining, Miller flew into a rage with a jaw-dropping scoring spell: he nailed a three-pointer, stole the following inbounds pass and immediately stepped back to bury another three. All of a sudden, the game was tied. After hitting two decisive foul shots with 7.5 seconds left, the Pacers claimed a miraculous 107-105 win. But even more impressive was the fact that Miller scored eight points in 8.9 seconds. (“Reggie Misc. Info”)

    Many of Reggie’s accomplishments become even greater as he continues to play throughout the 2004-05 season. At age 38, players don’t forget who Reggie Miller is. He is feared and respected for his abilities and his desire to do his best. He is always on the opponents’ defensive game report. Miller never dominated a season or era like most of the others on the list. But you must find a place for one of the greatest shooters in NBA history. This future Hall of Famer deserves to be in the Top 50 Greatest Players of All-Time List because of how he has impacted the game of basketball for generations present and the future.
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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Good read. I hated writing my persuasive essays in school.

  3. #3
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    I knew just about all that stuff and I read it anyway. Very good, I'll give you an A+.

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    If Reggie wasn't one of the 50 greatest players in 1996, there's no way in hell he is now with the emergence of Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, and now Lebron and Wade

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    If Reggie wasn't one of the 50 greatest players in 1996, there's no way in hell he is now with the emergence of Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, and now Lebron and Wade

    Ah . . . give Lebron and Wade a few years before declaring them one of the 50 greatest. Two years doesn't do it for me.

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    It's amazing how a couple of years changes the perception of certain players. Does anyone still think Pippen belonged on that original list?

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie4Three
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    It's amazing how a couple of years changes the perception of certain players. Does anyone still think Pippen belonged on that original list?

    Careful... I was getting darts for mentioning that very idea in another thread today...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Careful... I was getting darts for mentioning that very idea in another thread today...

    I was responding to your questioning of Pip being All-NBA more than anything.

    Pip proved he was 1st team all-nba worthy when he led the Bulls in 1993-1994 and finished second in MVP voting.

  9. #9
    3ptmiller
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    What a great post!!


    I think he is Definitly one of the 50 greatest players of all time....

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    Member Mr. Pink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    I knew just about all that stuff and I read it anyway. Very good, I'll give you an A+.

    Thanks. I had a lot of fun writing this one. I wonder why...
    AKA Sactolover05

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    haha I wrote an Essay too about the impact of Reggie Miller in my life and his impact on the game and league, I bet there are alot of us on here that has dome something like that.

    Good Paper!
    Life without water is tough, life without air is hard,life with one leg only is wobbly, Life without Reggie Miller, is impossible.

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    Veteran Austin Croshere, the longest-tenured Pacers player on the roster, has proven reliable when called upon, invariably ready to step in regardless of the circumstance.

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Great essay.

    I remember in Jr. High I had to write an essay on my 'heroes' for English.

    Reggie, of course, was one of them. I did what was basically a word for word account of his 8 points in 8.9 seconds, as well as his shot in Game 4 of the 98 ECF.

    As my username might suggest, one of my other heroes was Bill Cosby.

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Sacto, what is your sig from?

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    3ptmiller
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    Quote Originally Posted by cramerica
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    Sacto, what is your sig from?
    Its from the Movie he has on his Avatar. I recommend everybody to see it! Its hilarious, "Team Americaaaaaa ***K YEAH!"

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    Member Mr. Pink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by cramerica
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    Sacto, what is your sig from?

    3ptmiller is right. Team America: World Police is the movie. Make sure you watch the Unrated/Uncensored version. This movie is sooooo damn funny.
    AKA Sactolover05

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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    Ah . . . give Lebron and Wade a few years before declaring them one of the 50 greatest. Two years doesn't do it for me.
    Me Neither.

    Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, etc. etc.

    Don't count your damn chickens.

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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles
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    Me Neither.

    Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, etc. etc.

    Don't count your damn chickens.


    Wade and Lebron's games are already superior to Miller's in his prime.

    If you think Wade or Lebron are dying out in the near future, keep dreaming.

    It's a nice essay you wrote, Sacto, but the fact remains that Reggie Miller wasn't one of the 50th greatest players in the NBA. If he wasn't in 1996, he wasn't now.

    I hate to knock Reggie, but I have to take my number 31 jersey off for a second and look at this realistically. There are easily 50 players that had far better all around games than Reggie. Reggie was a good shooter that found a niche and rode it for 18 years. He hit some huge shots to put the team on the map. His defense, rebounding and assists were allways lacking.

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    Wade and Lebron's games are already superior to Miller's in his prime.

    If you think Wade or Lebron are dying out in the near future, keep dreaming.

    It's a nice essay you wrote, Sacto, but the fact remains that Reggie Miller wasn't one of the 50th greatest players in the NBA. If he wasn't in 1996, he wasn't now.

    I hate to knock Reggie, but I have to take my number 31 jersey off for a second and look at this realistically. There are easily 50 players that had far better all around games than Reggie. Reggie was a good shooter that found a niche and rode it for 18 years. He hit some huge shots to put the team on the map. His defense, rebounding and assists were allways lacking.
    See, I don't think anyone can disagree that Reggie was not one of the 50 best all around players in NBA history. However, there have been better all around players that didn't accomplish as much as Reggie either. I would take Reggie's career over Pippen's for example. Pippen looked great with Jordan but was pretty much just like anyone else when he wasn't with him. Overall, without Jordan, how much of an impact did Pippen have on his team? I can tell you that few players have had larger impacts on their team and franchise than Reggie did.

    I'm not saying Reggie was in the top 50, because if I sat down and thought about it I'd probably rank 50 players ahead of him. However, I think there are players on the original list that I would put him ahead of now.

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie4Three
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    See, I don't think anyone can disagree that Reggie was not one of the 50 best all around players in NBA history. However, there have been better all around players that didn't accomplish as much as Reggie either. I would take Reggie's career over Pippen's for example. Pippen looked great with Jordan but was pretty much just like anyone else when he wasn't with him. Overall, without Jordan, how much of an impact did Pippen have on his team? I can tell you that few players have had larger impacts on their team and franchise than Reggie did.

    I'm not saying Reggie was in the top 50, because if I sat down and thought about it I'd probably rank 50 players ahead of him. However, I think there are players on the original list that I would put him ahead of now.

    It's really just personal opinion.

    I, myself, could not put Reggie above those 50 players, but that's me.

  20. #20
    Member indytoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Reggie has more memorable clutch performances than most of the players in the Top 50, all of whom were better overall basketball players. I guess it depends on what your requirements for making the list are - is it only the top 50 overall basketball players, or do you add weight for longevity, or visibility, or clutch play, or being the best at one thing? You could make the arguement that you can't not include the most prolific three-point shooter in history - but then again a few years ago that means you would have had to include Dale Ellis on the list.

    So in conclusion, I have absolutely no idea.

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    I think having any "official" or semi-official list of top 50 is silly to begin with. There's nothing special about stopping at 50, and it doesn't matter who the absolute 50 best are, even if we could all mostly agree to what that list should be. I think we're better off ditching this list stuff, and just remembering all the hundreds of great players that have come and gone, and those that play today, and leave it at that. We all have our opinions on who we'd take over whom, or who we think is the best, or top X list, but in the end that should stay individual and we shouldn't worry about deciding on any "official" list. I think the NBA was silly for doing it that way.

  22. #22
    3ptmiller
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    Robert Parish
    Bill Sharman
    Earl Monroe
    Scottie Pippen
    Bill Walton
    Sam Jones
    Dave Bing
    Hal Greer
    Kevin Mchale
    Lenny Wilkens
    James Worthy

    I mean, if guys like this can diserve a place in that List and Reggie not... then NBA is rubbish. I mean, just tell me one guy there that was better than Reggie? Because Reggie diserves it, a team can steal his loyalty and work ethics for the whole career while he could go to other teams and collect rings... then Reggie truly diserves it...

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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I think having any "official" or semi-official list of top 50 is silly to begin with. There's nothing special about stopping at 50, and it doesn't matter who the absolute 50 best are, even if we could all mostly agree to what that list should be. I think we're better off ditching this list stuff, and just remembering all the hundreds of great players that have come and gone, and those that play today, and leave it at that. We all have our opinions on who we'd take over whom, or who we think is the best, or top X list, but in the end that should stay individual and we shouldn't worry about deciding on any "official" list. I think the NBA was silly for doing it that way.
    I agree with this. You can't really judge a player to see if he was greater than someone else. What qualifies as better? You can't say, because each person was important to their own team in their own way.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ptmiller
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    Robert Parish
    Bill Sharman
    Earl Monroe
    Scottie Pippen
    Bill Walton
    Sam Jones
    Dave Bing
    Hal Greer
    Kevin Mchale
    Lenny Wilkens
    James Worthy

    I mean, if guys like this can diserve a place in that List and Reggie not... then NBA is rubbish. I mean, just tell me one guy there that was better than Reggie? Because Reggie diserves it, a team can steal his loyalty and work ethics for the whole career while he could go to other teams and collect rings... then Reggie truly diserves it...
    Worthy, Walton, Pippen, and Monroe were all better than Reggie. However Reggie should be on there in place of Wilkins.
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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something I totally forgot about...

    It was just a fun list to help celebrate the 50th anniversary of the league.

    My guess is they wanted to have a balanced list, with about 10 players from each of the 5 decades.

    They picked the best players from the 1990's and Reggie was not one of them they picked. The players they picked ahead of Reggie from his era were all better players.

    Maybe Reggie was better than Wilkens, or whomever, but they had to have old time players to have a balance. It wouldnt have been as fun to celebrate if most of your players were from the 90's.

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