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Thread: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

  1. #26
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    So take away Rick and add Brad and Isiah back into the equation and whaddaya got?
    Mercer playing the point in the playoffs?..............
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  2. #27
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Had. We. Re. Signed. Brad. We. Would. Not. Have. Been. Able. To. Fire. Isiah. And. Hire. Rick.

    So take away Rick and add Brad and Isiah back into the equation and whaddaya got? Certainly not the best record in the NBA right now. And definitely not the best road record.

    The problem is that you have to believe that to be true I dont. Had we let Brad walk and not taken back nearly the same in salary then I would believe it.

    Yes we would not have been able to sign Kenny ed: that I will give you. But Rick? Come on.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Yes we would not have been able to sign Kenny ed: that I will give you. But Rick? Come on.

    Well, you can believe what you wanna believe.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Had. We. Re. Signed. Brad. We. Would. Not. Have. Been. Able. To. Fire. Isiah. And. Hire. Rick.

    So take away Rick and add Brad and Isiah back into the equation and whaddaya got? Certainly not the best record in the NBA right now. And definitely not the best road record.

    The problem is that you have to believe that to be true I dont. Had we let Brad walk and not taken back nearly the same in salary then I would believe it.

    Yes we would not have been able to sign Kenny ed: that I will give you. But Rick? Come on.
    That's a good point. As it TURNED OUT, no, we couldn't have signed Rick if we had kept Brad.

    But why couldn't we have used the money we spent on Kenny and used that towards Rick instead?

  5. #30

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    That's a good point. As it TURNED OUT, no, we couldn't have signed Rick if we had kept Brad.

    But why couldn't we have used the money we spent on Kenny and used that towards Rick instead?

    Because of the sequence of events this past summer. Management was dealing in real time, not in hindsight. And if I recall, we signed both Kenny and AJ before we fired Isiah and hired Rick.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    That's a good point. As it TURNED OUT, no, we couldn't have signed Rick if we had kept Brad.

    But why couldn't we have used the money we spent on Kenny and used that towards Rick instead?

    Because of the sequence of events this past summer. Management was dealing in real time, not in hindsight. And if I recall, we signed both Kenny and AJ before we fired Isiah and hired Rick.
    Rick was hired on or just before September 2nd. Kenny was signed as a free agent on September 19.

    Proof on Rick:

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/carli...ed_030903.html

    Proof on Kenny:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...s.anderson.ap/

  7. #32
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    That's a good point. As it TURNED OUT, no, we couldn't have signed Rick if we had kept Brad.

    But why couldn't we have used the money we spent on Kenny and used that towards Rick instead?

    Because of the sequence of events this past summer. Management was dealing in real time, not in hindsight. And if I recall, we signed both Kenny and AJ before we fired Isiah and hired Rick.
    Rick was hired on or just before September 2nd. Kenny was signed as a free agent on September 19.
    Ok We signed Kenny two weeks after we hired Rick. Letting Brad go in favor of Scott Pollard allowed us to aquire a second player we would not use rather than one who we would.

    So to save money we let Brad sign for 7 million (Brad stated he would stay with the Pacers for the 6.5 that Denver offered) and traded him for Pollard who makes $5,309,563 and signed Kenny Anderson for $1,070,000 totaling $6,379,563 saving us a grand total of $120,437 and with this we hired Rick Carlisle ed:

    Edit --- Just in case you want to believe it would have taken the whole 7 million to re sign him it saved us $620.437 I just want to be clear so you dont blame me of try to see things that are not there.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    That's a good point. As it TURNED OUT, no, we couldn't have signed Rick if we had kept Brad.

    But why couldn't we have used the money we spent on Kenny and used that towards Rick instead?

    Because of the sequence of events this past summer. Management was dealing in real time, not in hindsight. And if I recall, we signed both Kenny and AJ before we fired Isiah and hired Rick.
    Rick was hired on or just before September 2nd. Kenny was signed as a free agent on September 19.
    Ok We signed Kenny two weeks after we hired Rick. Letting Brad go in favor of Scott Pollard allowed us to aquire a second player we would not use rather than one who we would.

    So to save money we let Brad sign for 7 million (Brad stated he would stay with the Pacers for the 6.5 that Denver offered) and traded him for Pollard who makes $5,309,563 and signed Kenny Anderson for $1,070,000 totaling $6,379,563 saving us a grand total of $120,437 and with this we hired Rick Carlisle ed:

    Edit --- Just in case you want to believe it would have taken the whole 7 million to re sign him it saved us $620.437 I just want to be clear so you dont blame me of try to see things that are not there.

    Hmm, I wonder if management looked at Brad's contract as a one-time $7 million outlay.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    That's a good point. As it TURNED OUT, no, we couldn't have signed Rick if we had kept Brad.

    But why couldn't we have used the money we spent on Kenny and used that towards Rick instead?

    Because of the sequence of events this past summer. Management was dealing in real time, not in hindsight. And if I recall, we signed both Kenny and AJ before we fired Isiah and hired Rick.
    Rick was hired on or just before September 2nd. Kenny was signed as a free agent on September 19.
    Ok We signed Kenny two weeks after we hired Rick. Letting Brad go in favor of Scott Pollard allowed us to aquire a second player we would not use rather than one who we would.

    So to save money we let Brad sign for 7 million (Brad stated he would stay with the Pacers for the 6.5 that Denver offered) and traded him for Pollard who makes $5,309,563 and signed Kenny Anderson for $1,070,000 totaling $6,379,563 saving us a grand total of $120,437 and with this we hired Rick Carlisle ed:

    Edit --- Just in case you want to believe it would have taken the whole 7 million to re sign him it saved us $620.437 I just want to be clear so you dont blame me of try to see things that are not there.

    You've left out the part about the fact that regardless of what happened with Brad, we could still trade Mercer's expiring contract to several teams, and I think that's still enough savings to pay two coaches for one year.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  10. #35
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    That's a good point. As it TURNED OUT, no, we couldn't have signed Rick if we had kept Brad.

    But why couldn't we have used the money we spent on Kenny and used that towards Rick instead?

    Because of the sequence of events this past summer. Management was dealing in real time, not in hindsight. And if I recall, we signed both Kenny and AJ before we fired Isiah and hired Rick.
    Rick was hired on or just before September 2nd. Kenny was signed as a free agent on September 19.
    Ok We signed Kenny two weeks after we hired Rick. Letting Brad go in favor of Scott Pollard allowed us to aquire a second player we would not use rather than one who we would.

    So to save money we let Brad sign for 7 million (Brad stated he would stay with the Pacers for the 6.5 that Denver offered) and traded him for Pollard who makes $5,309,563 and signed Kenny Anderson for $1,070,000 totaling $6,379,563 saving us a grand total of $120,437 and with this we hired Rick Carlisle ed:

    Edit --- Just in case you want to believe it would have taken the whole 7 million to re sign him it saved us $620.437 I just want to be clear so you dont blame me of try to see things that are not there.

    Hmm, I wonder if management looked at Brad's contract as a one-time $7 million outlay.
    No I dont but I do think firing Isiah and hiring Rick while having to pay Isiah for One year was a one time outlay.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Okay Rag, let's do some simple math, shall we? A quick lesson in business, if you will. I fully expect this to fall on deaf ears because you don't seem to take the entire organization's payroll into consideration when it comes to the team's overall finances, but here goes...

    Larry Bird: $4 million/4 years = $16 million

    Rick Carlisle: $4 million/3 years = $12 million

    DW: +$1 million (pay increase)/4 years = $4 million

    Isiah: $5 million/1 year = $5 million


    That comes to $37 million over 4 years. The team took on an additional $9 million in salary this year with the hiring of Larry and Rick and DW's new contract.

    Now, take away Isiah's salary after this year and the team is still paying for 2 GMs at an additional cost of $5 million for the next 3 years, for a total additional cost of $15 million. Fold in the $9 million this year and you have a whopping $24 million added to the team's payroll over the next 4 years.

    Now, I don't know what business school you went to, Rag, or if you went at all, but that money comes from somewhere and it sure as hell is factored into the team's bottom line. At $6 million a year that's like having another player under contract (Ron gets $6 million a year).

    Remember last spring when Donnie said he was going to sign all his FAs in the off-season and that he'd "let all of you with your little calculators figure out how he was going to do it?" Well, he hadn't hired Bird at that time. On top of that, he knew he was going to need to bolster the backcourt in the off-season.

    Now, you can argue Al was the key factor in all of this, as you have in the past, but I think that had little do to with the decision at the time. Just look at the numbers, the additional payroll added this year and over the next 3 years and you have a pretty clear picture why Brad wasn't re-signed.

  12. #37

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    [quote="Jay@Section222"]
    You've left out the part about the fact that regardless of what happened with Brad, we could still trade Mercer's expiring contract to several teams, and I think that's still enough savings to pay two coaches for one year.
    We actually trade Mercer (and Hedo) to get Ferry's contract which can off the books this season. If the goal was to save money that was the best trade we could have made otherwise we would still be taking on salary.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  13. #38

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    [quote="Jay@Section222"]
    You've left out the part about the fact that regardless of what happened with Brad, we could still trade Mercer's expiring contract to several teams, and I think that's still enough savings to pay two coaches for one year.
    We actually trade Mercer (and Hedo) to get Ferry's contract which can off the books this season. If the goal was to save money that was the best trade we could have made otherwise we would still be taking on salary.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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