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Thread: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

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    Default Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=4911


    Pacer-related comments:


    Matt, Valparaiso, IN: The Pacers have beaten nearly ever team in the West with the exception Kings, and they still get them at home. It seems to me that the Pacers are being overlooked as legit title contenders, why is this ?

    Marc Stein: Because this group still hasn't won a playoff series together and has to prove itself in the playoffs. And also because they're smaller than they were last year and, at least in my book, they're going to miss Brad Miller in the playoffs.

    --

    Adrian (louisville): Hello Marc, You stated that Indiana hasn't won a playoff series together and that is one of the reasons why they are not considered a title contender. Well, neither has Minnesota, but they are considered one of the favorites. Despite there size, they still are very deep and they have Reggie Miller. I think one advantage the Pacers have over teams like the Kings, San Antonio and Minny is that they play defense. I will give you any of those teams and the Pacers will win a 7 game series.

    Marc Stein: I say the same thing about the Wolves. Even with Minny's drastic makeover, they're a team that has to prove itself in the playoffs. The Wolves have looked good in Marc before. But I'll take your bet -- I would take Sacto, SA or Minny over Indy in a seven-game.

    --

    Randy (Indianapolis): The West is a pick-em at this point, but in the East Indiana has got to be the hands down favorite for the finals. Agree?

    Marc Stein: No. There is no hands-down favorite in the East, either. The Nets are the two-time champs and have zero fear of anyone in the East. Detroit is gelling fast and Indy isn't 47-16 by accident. The good news for Indy: Dominating the regular season is going to give them a much easier path to the conference finals. All they have to do is capitalize.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Matt, Valparaiso, IN: The Pacers have beaten nearly ever team in the West with the exception Kings, and they still get them at home. It seems to me that the Pacers are being overlooked as legit title contenders, why is this ?

    Marc Stein: Because this group still hasn't won a playoff series together and has to prove itself in the playoffs. And also because they're smaller than they were last year and, at least in my book, they're going to miss Brad Miller in the playoffs.

    Yeah, we missed him last year, too.

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Matt, Valparaiso, IN: The Pacers have beaten nearly ever team in the West with the exception Kings, and they still get them at home. It seems to me that the Pacers are being overlooked as legit title contenders, why is this ?

    Marc Stein: Because this group still hasn't won a playoff series together and has to prove itself in the playoffs. And also because they're smaller than they were last year and, at least in my book, they're going to miss Brad Miller in the playoffs.

    Yeah, we missed him last year, too.
    It kinda pisses me off when pacer fans want to pretend Brad wasn't a good center and fit in well here.

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Matt, Valparaiso, IN: The Pacers have beaten nearly ever team in the West with the exception Kings, and they still get them at home. It seems to me that the Pacers are being overlooked as legit title contenders, why is this ?

    Marc Stein: Because this group still hasn't won a playoff series together and has to prove itself in the playoffs. And also because they're smaller than they were last year and, at least in my book, they're going to miss Brad Miller in the playoffs.

    Yeah, we missed him last year, too.
    It kinda pisses me off when pacer fans want to pretend Brad wasn't a good center and fit in well here.
    Since the comment is about the playoffs, his final two games of the series: 0 pts, 1 reb and 2 pts. 2 rebs. Series average 8.6 and 5.5.

    He was fine and he fit in well, but he was missed in the playoffs.....
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Matt, Valparaiso, IN: The Pacers have beaten nearly ever team in the West with the exception Kings, and they still get them at home. It seems to me that the Pacers are being overlooked as legit title contenders, why is this ?

    Marc Stein: Because this group still hasn't won a playoff series together and has to prove itself in the playoffs. And also because they're smaller than they were last year and, at least in my book, they're going to miss Brad Miller in the playoffs.

    Yeah, we missed him last year, too.
    It kinda pisses me off when pacer fans want to pretend Brad wasn't a good center and fit in well here.
    Since the comment is about the playoffs, his final two games of the series: 0 pts, 1 reb and 2 pts. 2 rebs. Series average 8.6 and 5.5.

    He was fine and he fit in well, but he was missed in the playoffs.....
    I thought it was determined he reinjured his foot in either game 5 or in game 6?

    BTW... if missing in action in a couple of games of the playoffs is going to be held against a player (who was pretty strong in games 1-4) then perhaps we should look at Al in that series? ...Not to mention Reggie.

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Matt, Valparaiso, IN: The Pacers have beaten nearly ever team in the West with the exception Kings, and they still get them at home. It seems to me that the Pacers are being overlooked as legit title contenders, why is this ?

    Marc Stein: Because this group still hasn't won a playoff series together and has to prove itself in the playoffs. And also because they're smaller than they were last year and, at least in my book, they're going to miss Brad Miller in the playoffs.

    Yeah, we missed him last year, too.
    It kinda pisses me off when pacer fans want to pretend Brad wasn't a good center and fit in well here.
    Since the comment is about the playoffs, his final two games of the series: 0 pts, 1 reb and 2 pts. 2 rebs. Series average 8.6 and 5.5.

    He was fine and he fit in well, but he was missed in the playoffs.....

    Exactly.

    Relax, Hicks. I never said he didn't fit in well here. Or that he wasn't a good center. I just couldn't resist the poke. Stein set it up so well.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    I am going to say this very carefully because this is still such a hot topic still.

    Pacers do not nor will not miss Brad Miller on the defensive end of the floor. [size=9:7e04e67661](Exception: maybe a little defensive rebounding wise)[/size]

    Pacers certainly do and will continue to miss Brad on the offensive end of the floor in so many ways.

    Can we all agree on both of those statements.

    Watching Brad play one-on-one defense is often not pretty. he was guarding Odom Saturday.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    I am going to say this very carefully because this is still such a hot topic still.

    Pacers do not nor will not miss Brad Miller on the defensive end of the floor. [size=9:204d12a248](Exception: maybe a little defensive rebounding wise)[/size]

    Pacers certainly do and will continue to miss Brad on the offensive end of the floor in so many ways.

    Can we all agree on both of those statements.

    Watching Brad play one-on-one defense is often not pretty. he was guarding Odom Saturday.
    No, we can not.

    Watching Brad guard a quick finesse big man is not a good thing. Watching Jeff Foster guard strong post players is not any better. Oh, save your breath. I don't give a crap about what he did against Brand in the fourth quarter after Elton had been playing all game long. You wanna shiver in fear? Go back & watch a tape of Jeff playing against Jamal Maglure (sp?) He was made a fool of.

    Stop acting like Brad was just a one side of the court player. It doesn't play out any better than when you kept telling me Brad Miller wasn't an all-star . I'm not saying that Brad is a defensive stopper, but the fact is that he blocks 1.25 shots a game & steals .95 times a game. Jeff gives you .95 steals a game & blocks it .37 times a game.

    Now you & I both agree on one thing. We don't use stats. to judge a player. I have often said that blocks don't equal good defense. But I have watched both players & I still say the same thing. Brad is better defending centers & strong 4's while Jeff is better at the quicker big men.

    BTW, I'm glad to see you admit that Brad's defensive rebounding is missed. Which brings me to another issue. Isn't Jeff Foster's big clame to fame his rebounding? Why would we miss Brad's rebounding if Jeff is here? I already have the answer to that btw.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  9. #9
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    I am going to say this very carefully because this is still such a hot topic.

    Pacers do not nor will not miss Brad Miller on the defensive end of the floor. [size=9:861ad40740](Exception: maybe a little defensive rebounding wise)[/size]

    Pacers certainly do and will continue to miss Brad on the offensive end of the floor in so many ways.

    Can we all agree on both of those statements.

    Watching Brad play one-on-one defense is often not pretty. he was guarding Odom Saturday.
    No, we can not.

    Watching Brad guard a quick finesse big man is not a good thing. Watching Jeff Foster guard strong post players is not any better. Oh, save your breath. I don't give a crap about what he did against Brand in the fourth quarter after Elton had been playing all game long. You wanna shiver in fear? Go back & watch a tape of Jeff playing against Jamal Maglure (sp?) He was made a fool of.

    Stop acting like Brad was just a one side of the court player. It doesn't play out any better than when you kept telling me Brad Miller wasn't an all-star . I'm not saying that Brad is a defensive stopper, but the fact is that he blocks 1.25 shots a game & steals .95 times a game. Jeff gives you .95 steals a game & blocks it .37 times a game.

    Now you & I both agree on one thing. We don't use stats. to judge a player. I have often said that blocks don't equal good defense. But I have watched both players & I still say the same thing. Brad is better defending centers & strong 4's while Jeff is better at the quicker big men.

    BTW, I'm glad to see you admit that Brad's defensive rebounding is missed. Which brings me to another issue. Isn't Jeff Foster's big clame to fame his rebounding? Why would we miss Brad's rebounding if Jeff is here? I already have the answer to that btw.

    Sorry, but I have to respond.

    Peck, I don't think Brand scored on Foster the whole game. I know he didn't in the first 6 minutes of the first quarter when Foster was on him, and then when Foster went to ther bench brad got it going and kept it going until Jeff came back in at the 4 minute mark.

    In theory Peck, I can agree that brad is a little better against the bigger stronger low post players. The only problem with that is there are so few, and besides Brad is not very good on those few anyway.

    Bottom line the Pacers are a better defensive team with Jeff Foster than they would be with Brad Miller. (I realize coaching has a lot to do with it, but I am taking that out of the equation for now)

    Peck we have discussed all this so many times before, I am actually boring myself.

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    I think one advantage the Pacers have over teams like the Kings, San Antonio and Minny is that they play defense. I will give you any of those teams and the Pacers will win a 7 game series.
    I'm a bit amazed that Stein didn't jump all over this one.

    I'll give him Sacto and Minny's sort of average on D but the Spurs???

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    UB you are missing a couple of things here. And Peck I am suprised you didnt catch it.

    First of all Jermaine was not a very good defender last year. Tinsley didnt even know what the word meant. You dont think that had something to do with the coach?

    If you think Brad can not defend then you have clearly not watched much of his career. Well I have and when he was in Charlotte that was his claim to fame. He was a very good defender. He is the one guy in the league who can hold his ground against Shaq.

    Foster would still be playing the same number of minutes as he is now. So he should be producing the same. If anything I think the person who's numbers would be down had we kept Brad would have been Al.

    It all comes back to that they chose Al over Brad (in their minds IMO they could have kept both) I think it was a bad choice. I like Al a lot but he is the odd man out because there are two people who are better than him at his positions. Now Bender is coming along and Cro seems to be doing ok.

    We should have sent Al and Mercer to San Antonio or Utah and Kept Brad then Jermaine would not have to play center. (which we have seen he is a better pf than C)

  12. #12
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    I am going to say this very carefully because this is still such a hot topic.

    Pacers do not nor will not miss Brad Miller on the defensive end of the floor. [size=9:ba2095925f](Exception: maybe a little defensive rebounding wise)[/size]

    Pacers certainly do and will continue to miss Brad on the offensive end of the floor in so many ways.

    Can we all agree on both of those statements.

    Watching Brad play one-on-one defense is often not pretty. he was guarding Odom Saturday.
    No, we can not.

    Watching Brad guard a quick finesse big man is not a good thing. Watching Jeff Foster guard strong post players is not any better. Oh, save your breath. I don't give a crap about what he did against Brand in the fourth quarter after Elton had been playing all game long. You wanna shiver in fear? Go back & watch a tape of Jeff playing against Jamal Maglure (sp?) He was made a fool of.

    Stop acting like Brad was just a one side of the court player. It doesn't play out any better than when you kept telling me Brad Miller wasn't an all-star . I'm not saying that Brad is a defensive stopper, but the fact is that he blocks 1.25 shots a game & steals .95 times a game. Jeff gives you .95 steals a game & blocks it .37 times a game.

    Now you & I both agree on one thing. We don't use stats. to judge a player. I have often said that blocks don't equal good defense. But I have watched both players & I still say the same thing. Brad is better defending centers & strong 4's while Jeff is better at the quicker big men.

    BTW, I'm glad to see you admit that Brad's defensive rebounding is missed. Which brings me to another issue. Isn't Jeff Foster's big clame to fame his rebounding? Why would we miss Brad's rebounding if Jeff is here? I already have the answer to that btw.

    Sorry, but I have to respond.

    Peck, I don't think Brand scored on Foster the whole game. I know he didn't in the first 6 minutes of the first quarter when Foster was on him, and then when Foster went to ther bench brad got it going and kept it going until Jeff came back in at the 4 minute mark.

    In theory Peck, I can agree that brad is a little better against the bigger stronger low post players. The only problem with that is there are so few, and besides Brad is not very good on those few anyway.

    Bottom line the Pacers are a better defensive team with Jeff Foster than they would be with Brad Miller. (I realize coaching has a lot to do with it, but I am taking that out of the equation for now)

    Peck we have discussed all this so many times before, I am actually boring myself.
    I quote the great Ben Sisco "lie to yourself if you must but don't stand between me & the blood wine".

    So basically in your opinion anything less than 2nd all-defensive team will be an injustice to Jeff. ed:


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    To quote the great Pacers.com scores and schedules pages:

    2002-2003 38-25
    2003-2004 47-16

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    To quote the great Pacers.com scores and schedules pages:

    2002-2003 38-25
    2003-2004 47-16

    Coaching

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    To quote the great Pacers.com scores and schedules pages:

    2002-2003 38-25
    2003-2004 47-16

    Coaching

    Which we couldn't afford had we re-signed Brad.

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    To quote the great Pacers.com scores and schedules pages:

    2002-2003 38-25
    2003-2004 47-16

    Coaching

    Which we couldn't afford had we re-signed Brad.
    At least, not at the final asking price...

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    To quote the great Pacers.com scores and schedules pages:

    2002-2003 38-25
    2003-2004 47-16

    Coaching

    Which we couldn't afford had we re-signed Brad.
    How would you and the other we dont need Brad people going to feel if we loose to the Kings in the Finals? Or if Shaq destroys us in the middle after we traded the one guy who got under his skin.

    (although I believe Brad will be the way the Kings finally get past the Lakers yet the conspiracy theorist in me cant believe the NBA would allow two small market teams into the finals)

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon



    So basically in your opinion anything less than 2nd all-defensive team will be an injustice to Jeff. ed:
    I would not go that far, he just won't be thought of for that type of thing. No Jeff is not one of the 10 best defenders in the whole NBA.



    Ragnar, you must have not read my posts in this thread, I never said Jeff is a better player than Brad, of course he isn't, the offensive gap is way too great. The rebounding is about equal between the two, but I give jeff the edge for his defense. Don't take my word for it, take Carlisle's word for it, he has said it on his radio show.

    I can't think of 5 guys that I would rather have Brad guard one-on-one

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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Ragnar, you must have not read my posts in this thread, I never said Jeff is a better player than Brad, of course he isn't, the offensive gap is way too great. The rebounding is about equal between the two, but I give jeff the edge for his defense. Don't take my word for it, take Carlisle's word for it, he has said it on his radio show.

    I can't think of 5 guys that I would rather have Brad guard one-on-one
    I am not trying to say that overall Brad is a better defender. In fact I am right with you that overall Jeff is the better defender. I would go so far as to say that if the choice were between Brad or Jeff I would have chosen Jeff. I know I will be in the minority on that one. But that was not the choice we could have had both.

    What I was trying to say is that to defend Shaq you would need Brad to do the best. He defends Shaq better than anyone. Thats why the Kings got him. As long as Shaq is in the NBA having a guy who defends him fairly well is a good thing.

    I have been a Foster fan since the first time I saw him play and felt that the biggest mistake Bird made in 00 was leaving him off the finals roster. (well and leaving Travis in at the end of the game where he..... well you know)

  20. #20

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    To quote the great Pacers.com scores and schedules pages:

    2002-2003 38-25
    2003-2004 47-16

    Coaching

    Which we couldn't afford had we re-signed Brad.
    How would you and the other we dont need Brad people going to feel if we loose to the Kings in the Finals? Or if Shaq destroys us in the middle after we traded the one guy who got under his skin.

    (although I believe Brad will be the way the Kings finally get past the Lakers yet the conspiracy theorist in me cant believe the NBA would allow two small market teams into the finals)

    How would I feel if we lost to the Kings in the finals? Like I would if we lost to any other team in the finals. I have no doubt that if we make it to the finals and lose, regardless of who it is, you'll somehow bring it back to Brad. Short of a championship, I'm sure this entire season will come down to Brad for a lot of people here. I don't dwell in woulda-shoulda-coulda beens or what ifs—it's a complete waste of energy if you ask me.

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    How would you and the other we dont need Brad people going to feel if we loose to the Kings in the Finals? Or if Shaq destroys us in the middle after we traded the one guy who got under his skin.
    I'll gladly let Brad be the Shaq-stopper in the WCF. I'd much rather deal with Brad in the Finals with our current squad than try to deal with Shaq even with Brad still here.

    Or if we do have to deal with Shaq in the Finals, then I guess Brad wasn't up to the role of Shaq-stopper anyway......

    It's a win-win.....
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    Why do we continue to talk about Brad? He isn't on the pacers roster, last time I checked. Why don't we worry about what we actually have on this team. Yes he is gone. Oh well. Worrying is not going to bring him back.

    Anyways.

    I am very happy with the progress we have made this year, that 9 game differential is very nice.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon



    How would I feel if we lost to the Kings in the finals? Like I would if we lost to any other team in the finals. I have no doubt that if we make it to the finals and lose, regardless of who it is, you'll somehow bring it back to Brad. Short of a championship, I'm sure this entire season will come down to Brad for a lot of people here. I don't dwell in woulda-shoulda-coulda beens or what ifs—it's a complete waste of energy if you ask me.
    Of course if you get right down to it... everything here (message brds like this) could be construed a waste of energy in that regard.

    The 'Brad' debate continues because some feel that with new coaching he was the piece of the puzzle that more than gave this team a chance to compete with anybody (all the way to the rings). That being said, the fact that the team is sailing right along without him gives the other side of the aisle plenty of ammo and comebacks.

    The debate probably shouldn't be seen as a whiney 'coulda-woulda-shoulda' but rather a debate about HOW/IF the team could make a miscalculation like that?

    It's all speculation until the end of the year when we can all look back and either say "Well, Brad would not have mattered at all" or "Man, we had no inside presence to counter them"... and of course maybe.... "Brad looks like a shell of himself since the All Star break. The Pacers were right. Call him half-season All Star half season waste"


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  24. #24

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    I'll gladly let Brad be the Shaq-stopper in the WCF. I'd much rather deal with Brad in the finals with our current squad than try to deal with Shaq even with Brad still here.

    Or if we do have to deal with Shaq in the finals, then I guess Brad wasn't up to the role of Shaq-stopper anyway...

    Now how can anyone argue with that?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Marc Stein chat 3/8: not quite on the Pacers bandwagon

    The 'Brad' debate continues because some feel that with new coaching he was the piece of the puzzle that more than gave this team a chance to compete with anybody (all the way to the rings). That being said, the fact that the team is sailing right along without him gives the other side of the aisle plenty of ammo and comebacks.
    Um, bball, you're a seemingly intelligent guy. Someone who can grasp a concept without someone having to explain it to you repeatedly. So what part of this don't you understand? I'll say it slowly this time so it doesn't sail over your head:

    Had. We. Re. Signed. Brad. We. Would. Not. Have. Been. Able. To. Fire. Isiah. And. Hire. Rick.

    So take away Rick and add Brad and Isiah back into the equation and whaddaya got? Certainly not the best record in the NBA right now. And definitely not the best road record.

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