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Thread: Where do you stand?

  1. #26
    Member CableKC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    I feel that the Pacers are nearly there and that Artest ( because of what he means offensively and defensively to the team and how that changes the way the team plays ) would make enough of a difference to make the Pacers far more competitive against the "elite" teams like the Pistons, Spurs and the Heat.

    I don't feel that its a problem with mental toughness as the Pacer roster was able to outlast other teams and make it to the 2nd round of the Playoffs despite all the problems that they encountered this year. But unlike many other Pacer fans.....I do not feel that Artest ( assuming...and thats a BIG ASSUMPTION...that he doesn't make as much "noise" as this last season ) is the "root of all the evil" that resides woes of the Pacer Fans. We arecognize that the lack of durability and health of the Pacers roster at each of the position seems to catch up to us at the worst time each year....towards the end of the season and during the Playoffs.

    The question is how we address the durability and overall health of the Pacers starters and backup players.

    Either by becoming a "Catagory 1" follower by making internal changes ( such as working on better player conditioning ), coaching adjustments ( and make smarter adjustment in playing time and roster rotations ), and pray that this helps in the long run.

    or

    Follow the "Catagory 2" belief and get the players that the Pacer's organization feels would make the difference. But if that happens, it will likely mean that at least 2 of the "Big 4" of JONeal/Tinsley/Artest/SJax ( likely Artest and Tinsley ) along with solid backups like JJ/AJ/Foster/DDavis would have to be packaged to get the type of players that would change the team.

    I am a "Catagory 1" Pacer fan with a helping of "Catagory 2" mixed in. I think we are nearly there....we just have to figure out a way to address the injury bug issue ( especially with JONeal and Tinsley ).

    If a start HAD to be made ( in terms of roster change ) it should be made with Tinsley...either by figuring out a way to decrease his chances of getting injured ( either through conditioning and making adjustments to his playing time ) or by trading him ( along with others ) for another PG.

    But since it appears that it would be difficult to even slightly upgrade at the PG spot without losing either SJax, or Artest....I am in favor of keeping the roster as is ( if possible ) and see what happens. Just like I am willing to put another season on the line by keeping Artest, we should probably do the same for Tinsley. But just like Artest...if the right deal comes along for Tinsley ( or Artest for that matter ), the Pacers would be foolish not to make such a move.

  2. #27
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    No, talent is the most important thing to a basketball team. Without talent, you don't get championship experience, because you'll never get to the championship. If you even want to use that logic, then you're still not on top. The Spurs have two rings to your one, still above you.
    The Spurs have a core, but they aren't the same team. David Robinson was the emotional leader of that group in 1999 and 2003. Heck, there's only one guy left from 1999. And besides that, I've already said I respect the spurs.

    Now which is it? Are you saying that they didn't need to make changes, or did need too? You've started out with one tune, changed it, now changed it back. Who said break up a team? Adding better role players hardly constitutes breaking up a team. Why sign Arroyo, if you're already the champs?
    We added Arroyo without changing the core of our team. There's a difference between core players and role players.

    I already mentioned the Spurs. Duncan is anything but arrogant. The Pistons, the actual team and not you, are anything but arrogant. They still have the mentality that they are underdogs. Sheed just ripped the media for not giving them credit, and Rip said that they use that as motivation. Tell them they need to be arrogant. Not being like that gives them their edge.
    Rasheed Wallace is arrogant. Billups is arrogant. Both of those guys have the belief that they're better than anybody that can guard them.

    Manu is possibly the most arrogant player in the NBA. He'll take on anybody, anywhere. His attitude is the reason he's the all-star, and not tony parker.

    Look at the Bulls. The Rockets. The Bad Boys. The Lakers. They all won multiple titles, and each team had the belief that nobody else could touch them if they played their best. They knew that no matter what anybody else did, they could impose their will on a game and beat anybody. Thats the attitude you HAVE to have in order to win a championship. You treat opponents with disdain.

    Its also no conicidence that the most arrogant player of all time is Michael Jordan. He knew he was better than everyone else, and he wasn't afraid to show it, and go for the throat. Mercy meant NOTHING to him.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  3. #28
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    The Spurs have a core, but they aren't the same team. David Robinson was the emotional leader of that group in 1999 and 2003. And I've already said I respect the spurs.



    We added Arroyo without changing the core of our team. There's a difference between core players and role players.



    Rasheed Wallace is arrogant. Billups is arrogant. Both of those guys have the belief that they're better than anybody that can guard them.

    Manu is possibly the most arrogant player in the NBA. He'll take on anybody, anywhere. His attitude is the reason he's the all-star, and not tony parker.

    Look at the Bulls. The Rockets. The Bad Boys. The Lakers. They all won multiple titles, and each team had the belief that nobody else could touch them if they played their best.

    Its also no conicidence that the most arrogant player of all time is Michael Jordan. He knew he was better than everyone else, and he wasn't afraid to show it, and go for the throat. Mercy meant NOTHING to him.
    sounds like someone has confidence confused with arrogance....big difference....appears the pistons are confident...appears some of their fans are arrogant...

  4. #29
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    sounds like someone has confidence confused with arrogance....big difference....appears the pistons are confident...appears some of their fans are arrogant...
    call it confident then, whatever. Though its extreme confidence.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  5. #30
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    The Spurs have a core, but they aren't the same team. David Robinson was the emotional leader of that group in 1999 and 2003. And I've already said I respect the spurs..
    Emotional leader? So the emotional leader makes things go? Hardly. Tim Duncan was the leader that mattered, and he's still there. What I'm starting to get out of you is that you respect the Spurs and Shaq. Is that all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    We added Arroyo without changing the core of our team. There's a difference between core players and role players..
    There's very little of people that think this team shoud be dismantled and rebuilt, but that's beside the point. Your statement was towards changes in general. Changes doesn't dictate the degree of changes, on that there are some. Quit backpeddling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Rasheed Wallace is arrogant. Billups is arrogant. Both of those guys have the belief that they're better than anybody that can guard them.

    Manu is possibly the most arrogant player in the NBA. He'll take on anybody, anywhere. His attitude is the reason he's the all-star, and not tony parker.

    Look at the Bulls. The Rockets. The Bad Boys. The Lakers. They all won multiple titles, and each team had the belief that nobody else could touch them if they played their best.

    Its also no conicidence that the most arrogant player of all time is Michael Jordan. He knew he was better than everyone else, and he wasn't afraid to show it, and go for the throat. Mercy meant NOTHING to him.
    No. They're confident. There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, but the difference is huge. Arrogance is when you think you don't have anything to prove, that you are number one and everyone should understand that you're number one. Confidence is thinking that you're number one, but also believing that everyone else thinks they're above you. Confident players play with something to prove. Arrogant players play for themselves.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    sounds like someone has confidence confused with arrogance....big difference....appears the pistons are confident...appears some of their fans are arrogant...
    Thank you fore. Picking up where we left off from RATS, but you just didn't know it.

  7. #32
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    Until Joe Dumars takes a 'stupid' pill we are going to have to deal with the Pistons and Kstat's glee.

    Dumars is the unquestionable best GM in the NBA right now IMHO. The Walsh/Bird combo hasn't proven to be even close IMHO.... but maybe with the havoc of last season behind us, and a new summer to sort things out, maybe we will make a viable upgrade and put the Pistons back on the defensive. The problem with that is, the last time it happened the Pistons trumped us with the RWallace move at midseason while we stood pat... looking down from the mountain of our regular season juggernaut



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  8. #33
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'd like to see some major tweaking, but not touch the core of JO/Ron/Jax.
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  9. #34
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do you stand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'd like to see some major tweaking, but not touch the core of JO/Ron/Jax.


    Then I would classify you in group number 1. The premise of group number 1 is that you don't want to touch JO/Ron/Jax.

    Maybe this was a bad idea for a thread, but I just kind of wanted to get a sense of how everyone felt about this core we have now.

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