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Thread: Looking ahead part 3......

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Looking ahead part 3......

    Today we tackle the center spot.

    We have a total of 6 players that all can play min. at the center spot on the floor & one player who under dire circumstances can when called upon.

    Dale Davis, Jeff Foster, Scot Pollard, John Edwards, David Harrison & Jermaine O'neal all can play the spot & Austin under rare & special circumstances can play there as well.

    Truely, only Scot Pollard, John Edwards & David Harrison are centers. However as of now none of the above are starters & unless there is real dramatic improvement by Harrison over the summer none of them will start next season either.

    Right now I think you have to project Dale as the starter & no it's not just because I'm doing this. Rick has already stated he likes to bring Dale into the game warm from the pre-game & I just think he is more comfortable with Dale in there so right now, if he re-signs, my guess is Dale will start.

    Jeff will be the first big man off of the bench, if he is still here (I will cover this below) & he will play either half or maybe slightly more than half of the game.

    Harrison should be getting the rest of the min. & if he doesn't then there is either something wrong with him or we've made a move to get someone better.

    Pollard will have DNP-CD's by his name on some nights & then other nights he will play solid min. & will be the first big man used if either Dale or Jeff go down with injury's.

    Jermaine will play a lot at center next season if Foster is still here, just like he has for the past two seasons. He can be very affective in the center spot so if he plays min. there we will be fine.

    John Edwards will be on the I.R.L. next season & will probably dress for about 5-8 games. He will not play many min. & will only either be the concession player or the victory cigar.

    Now let's look at the players one by one.

    Dale Davis. He is still as strong as any player on our team & he still can get up & down the floor very well for his advanced age. He will have nights that will make us think he's 26 & then there will be nights where we will wonder if he didn't retire back in 96. What he is is everything Jermaine is not. He is rugged, he plays physical without getting flustered in the post. He is a great one on one defender & even though he doesn't have the hops anymore he still is one of the smartest defenders at the center spot in the NBA. Even if he doesn't start he would still be an asset to have coming off of the bench for the right price. & that is the key right there, the right price. I would think that the Pacers & Dale's agent have already talked about money & my guess is that they would never have even bothered with this season bringing him back if they didn't think there was a reasonable deal there.

    The Pacers should re-sign Dale for a reasonable salary & allow him to contribute about 20 min. a game (some nights more some nights less) & I think they will. He is a good locker room presence & with Reggie leaving I think Dale will fall into a leadership role on the team.

    Jeff Foster. There are going to be tons of people who will argue that Jeff should be the starter & maybe they are right. Heck, Carlisle may even agree & let Jeff start next season as well. But it's just my opinion that as long as Jermaine O'neal is the other player on the floor Jeff shouldn't be getting all of the min. here. I know U.B. & myself disagree over this but I do NOT beleive that Jeff Foster & Jermaine O'neal are an ideal match on the floor. Jeff was at his absolute best, IMO, when he & Dale played together, which shocked nobody more than me because I never would have guessed that that would have worked. IMO, he has proven that he is a dynamic bench player. A player that can come in & wreck absolute havoc when teams don't key on him.

    Here is the rub though. He is truely one of the Pacers best trading assets. A big man with a resonable contract will go a long long way in this league. By himself he won't garner much of a player, but packaged with another player he becomes a great trading tool for the team.

    Either way it goes there I will trust Walsh (did I just type that?) & whatever he decides. Jeff still has his weaknesses but he went a long way in the playoffs to erase the fact that he can't block shots, which was always one of my biggest b!tches with him.

    My guess is Jeff will still be here, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him elsewhere either.

    Scott Pollard. He is on the last year of his contract. That makes him a trading goldmine. But it also makes him valuable to the Pacers for the exact same reason. That is why I would not be shocked to see Jeff gone & Scott here so that they themselves get rid of some payroll. As a player he has his uses. He can face up & hit a 10' jumper. He can board, he takes up space underneath & he is a true legit center in size & strength. Like Dale, he is a good locker room guy from all reports & from his performances when the team was shorthanded he becamse somewhat of a fieldhouse favorite.

    To the shock of everybody, I think Pollard is here next year. However if the team tries to dump one of thier troubled children (pick your choice) then Scot could be packaged to make the deal go through. BTW, I have no problem with Scott staying on. He is still stone hands but he has his uses & he isn't afraid to mix it up under the board.

    David Harrison. Here is the real quandry. If David would just build on his early rookie year he makes any of the above three expendable (yes even Dale) but if how he ended his rookie year is anything like next season will be then he won't touch the floor. This guy has all of the tools to be a monster. He has size & strength the likes of which we have never seen on our team. He has a decent face up jumper & he was blocking shots so well that by his 3rd or 4th game in (I forget which) he was forcing other teams to adjust thier offense. He is a great team rebounder but doesn't rebound well himself (he boxes out sometimes 2 players at at time which allows others to get the boards but he just doesn't pick up the boards himself) which he has to improve on.

    Eddy Curry scares me in the future. David Harrison puts my mind at ease for the future, as long as he is early rookie David.

    You all will laugh at this but I'll say it anyway. I think if David could build on his early play that in 4-5 years he will be the best center in the NBA & will be an unstopable force for us. That is if everything & I mean everthing goes right for him.

    Again, people will laugh but I will say this. The one player on our team that I would consider untouchable is David Harrison. Now don't get me wrong if somebody said "hey, would you take Shaq for Harrison" of course I would. But to me the size of his contract & the size of him & the early play he showed makes me believe that no other player on our team has the potential that he does.

    So in review this is what I think should happen.

    1. Re-sign Dale.
    2. Work David Harrison to death over the summer & next season he should be the first backup center.
    3. Jeff will be the first big man off of the bench & he will play along side J.o. who will be the center when he is in.
    4. Scot will be the 10,11 or 12th man.
    5. Edwards for as little as possible to a contract.

    Jeff & Scot will be mentioned in trade rumors & I wouldn't be suprised to see either gone.

    My real problem is that we have a lot of depth at the center spot but to be honest not much quality. It will be center by commitee which can work, but I don't know for how long & against who.

    I would not mind an upgrade at the center spot.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  2. #2
    3ptmiller
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Nice post! Im sorry Peck if i maybe change subject, but i just want to ask some questions about Edwards since i have never seen him play... Is he a good player? Whats his weak & strong sides?

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    (Dale Davis. He is still as strong as any player on our team)

    (David Harrison. He has size & strength the likes of which we have never seen on our team.)

    *Cough, cough*

    My real problem is that we have a lot of depth at the center spot but to be honest not much quality. It will be center by commitee which can work, but I don't know for how long & against who.

    I would not mind an upgrade at the center spot.

    (Yawn) . . . another good post by Peck. (grin)

    The only thing I question is your last statement is kind of generic. 'I would not mind an upgrade at the center spot.'

    I know this is your end of year position by position comments on the team, but I would like to see some posts from you when you get done with this, on who you would like to see on the team. (Other than Brad) (grin)

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ptmiller
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    Nice post! Im sorry Peck if i maybe change subject, but i just want to ask some questions about Edwards since i have never seen him play... Is he a good player? Whats his weak & strong sides?
    Here is where I differ slightly from almost everybody else on here, ok one of the many things I differ on .

    I don't think Edwards is that bad.

    Don't get me wrong I don't think we will ever need to worry about his availabilty over all-star weekend or anything. I just think for a designated I.R.L. player & even a backup backup big man, I've seen worse.

    He has legitimate size & he has some strength. He is not very skilled but if he was he wouldn't have gone undrafted. He will never challenge any of the above for min. on the floor. Now if you think we should have used the money to sign a player who was more skilled & could really play if the situation merited it then I won't disagree.

    But in the long tradition of Sundovs, Grey's, Drielings, etc. he isn't the worst thing I've ever seen.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    (Yawn) . . . another good post by Peck. (grin)

    The only thing I question is your last statement is kind of generic. 'I would not mind an upgrade at the center spot.'

    I know this is your end of year position by position comments on the team, but I would like to see some posts from you when you get done with this, on who you would like to see on the team. (Other than Brad) (grin)
    Yea, you kind of caught me witht that whole strength thing didn't you.

    How about this. David has size the likes of which we've never seen & for a rookie is probably the strongest Pacer rookie ever.

    Is that better?

    I know my last statment is generic & to be honest I meant for it to be that way. I would not be opposed to a trade for a better center if we could get one or I could also see going with the group we have & trying it again at the center spot.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  6. #6
    3ptmiller
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Here is where I differ slightly from almost everybody else on here, ok one of the many things I differ on .

    I don't think Edwards is that bad.

    Don't get me wrong I don't think we will ever need to worry about his availabilty over all-star weekend or anything. I just think for a designated I.R.L. player & even a backup backup big man, I've seen worse.

    He has legitimate size & he has some strength. He is not very skilled but if he was he wouldn't have gone undrafted. He will never challenge any of the above for min. on the floor. Now if you think we should have used the money to sign a player who was more skilled & could really play if the situation merited it then I won't disagree.

    But in the long tradition of Sundovs, Grey's, Drielings, etc. he isn't the worst thing I've ever seen.
    With other words
    Weak Side: He sux at everything
    Good Side: He gets money for doing nothing?

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    Member skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    As UB mentioned in another thread, you can divide the team up into PG, swing players and power players. The distinction of PF and C is just a matter of matchups.

    JO is a weakside shotblocker so he should be matched up on the weaker post player from the other team. Since JO is going to swallow 35+ minutes, its really a matter of who is teamed up with him.

    DD and Foster give the Pacers a flexible lineup, big or fast. As DD gets on Harrison is going to have to get more of those minutes, it is important that he gets in shape over the off season.

    I think Edwards is the definitive 12th man. Tall and doesn't complain.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Good review Peck, I was just wondering though ... where did the SF spot review go?

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Well, center's far and away your weakest position IMO. Mainly because while you have a ton of players who can spend time there, outside of JO, they all fit in this category: Good backup.

    Except maybe for Harrison and that's hard to say at this point.

    The problem is, I can't think of anyone in the 5 million or less range who'll be available this summer who could help you. Maybe someone will pop up later.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  10. #10
    recap
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    Well, center's far and away your weakest position IMO. Mainly because while you have a ton of players who can spend time there, outside of JO, they all fit in this category: Good backup.

    Except maybe for Harrison and that's hard to say at this point.

    The problem is, I can't think of anyone in the 5 million or less range who'll be available this summer who could help you. Maybe someone will pop up later.
    I don't know that I agree with this statement. Outside of Miami and San Antonio there are very few true centers in the league. I think that our group of "good backup" centers has the potential to be one of the best front-courts in the league. We have a ton of flexibility, veteran leadership, and an up-and-coming potential monster in Harrison. Is there any team's second unit that could really compare to a Foster-Harrison combo? Those two would start on half the teams in the NBA. Personally, I like going from an ONeal/Davis (or Pollard) starting line-up to the Foster/Harrison second unit. There will always be an experienced defensive/rebounding specialist on the floor with a real post threat. To me the big questions are how healthy Pollard will be and how much DD has left in the tank.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Good review Peck, I was just wondering though ... where did the SF spot review go?

    Regards,

    Mourning

    Peck is only up to part three. The first part was point guards, two was shooting guards. This part of course is sinners . . . er centers. He hasn't posted either forward yet.

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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Peck, I too was expecting your review of the small forward spot. But you skipped ahead to center.

    Who is going to be a better player Harrison or Al Jefferson. I'd rather have Al.

    I have real questions about Harrison, about whether he will ever be anywhere close to the physical condition he needs to be. If he doesn't he'll never amount to much.

    Next season if Pollard can be as healthy and in as good a shape as he was to start this season he'll be a huge help, remember how good he was for the first 3 or 4 weeks of the season, I remember the game at Minnesota in November as an example. But then his back started acting up

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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by recap
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    I don't know that I agree with this statement. Outside of Miami and San Antonio there are very few true centers in the league. I think that our group of "good backup" centers has the potential to be one of the best front-courts in the league.
    Potential? What's this talk about potential?

    Dale Davis is 36 and has been in the league 14 years
    Jeff Foster is 28 and has been in the league 6 years
    Scott Pollard is 30 and has been in the league 8 years - and hasn't been healthy in 4
    David Harrison has shown some promise but the only world where he's a "potential monster" is the one where he and Jon Bender are the only two basketball players in existence.

    I've seen the word potential tossed around here pretty badly but this is one of the worst uses of it I can remember. The center production you had this year will very likely be your production next year - though again, Harrison could be pretty decent eventually.

    As for teams with better center rotations:

    Boston (Lafrentz, Blount, Jefferson)
    Chicago (Davis, Curry, Chandler
    Denver (Camby, Nene)
    New Jersey (Krstic, Collins, Robinson)
    Miami
    Spurs
    Jazz (Okur, Borchardt, Boozer)
    Houston (Yao, Mutombo)
    Dallas (Dampier, Nowitzki)
    Detroit (don't think I need to explain that one)
    Clippers (Kaman, Wilcox)
    Philly (Dalembert, Jackson, Rogers)
    Phoenix (Stoudamire, Hunter)

    Heck, I'm not so sure I wouldn't take the Bucks (Gadzurich, Pachulia), Cleveland (Ilgauskas, Traylor) or Warriors (Foyle, Cabarkapa) over Indy's centers.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  14. #14
    Harmonica
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    I agree, Peck.

    It's just a feeling I have, but I think there will be changes made over the summer and I can see either Foster or Pollard being packaged with another player to try and make some upgrades. And I can easily see Memphis being a trading partner. Here's why: West likes Foster and the Pacers came extremely close on pulling the trigger on a deal that would have sent him to Memphis at the beginning of the 2003-04 season. At the time, it would have been a salary dump, but Foster's value has surely increased since then. And Memphis has a stockpool of talent that might be of interest to us.

    The question is, who would Foster or Pollard be packaged with and for whom?

    Honestly, I have no idea, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was either Ron or Jermaine. Or Tins or AJ, for that matter. But I'm sure it hasn't been lost on both Donnie and Larry that the Pacers lost to the Pistons in 6 with Ron, and without him. True, there may have been significant improvements in his game since the ECFs, but his game has never been the issue. I'll leave it at that for now because we're getting ahead of ourselves and I'm sure Peck is saving the best for last.

    I'll end on this note: The real star of this team is Rick Carlisle and the trick will be to build a team around him. He's a special coach. As I pointed out to Kstat in another thread, it took Larry Brown over 25 years and far more than 4 playoff appearances to win a title. Rick will do it much sooner.

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    recap
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    Potential? What's this talk about potential?

    Dale Davis is 36 and has been in the league 14 years
    Jeff Foster is 28 and has been in the league 6 years
    Scott Pollard is 30 and has been in the league 8 years - and hasn't been healthy in 4
    David Harrison has shown some promise but the only world where he's a "potential monster" is the one where he and Jon Bender are the only two basketball players in existence.

    I've seen the word potential tossed around here pretty badly but this is one of the worst uses of it I can remember. The center production you had this year will very likely be your production next year - though again, Harrison could be pretty decent eventually.

    As for teams with better center rotations:

    Boston (Lafrentz, Blount, Jefferson)
    Chicago (Davis, Curry, Chandler
    Denver (Camby, Nene)
    New Jersey (Krstic, Collins, Robinson)
    Miami
    Spurs
    Jazz (Okur, Borchardt, Boozer)
    Houston (Yao, Mutombo)
    Dallas (Dampier, Nowitzki)
    Detroit (don't think I need to explain that one)
    Clippers (Kaman, Wilcox)
    Philly (Dalembert, Jackson, Rogers)
    Phoenix (Stoudamire, Hunter)

    Heck, I'm not so sure I wouldn't take the Bucks (Gadzurich, Pachulia), Cleveland (Ilgauskas, Traylor) or Warriors (Foyle, Cabarkapa) over Indy's centers.

    I guess that I wasn't clear. I think about the pf and center positions together, so what the Pacers need is the guy to compliment JO in the first unit and in the second unit a guy that can score from the post and a second player that is a great rebounder/defender. If we are talking about pure centers/post players that can do it all, then you're right, our guys are all second-stringers. However, if we are talking about a group that can compliment JO and give teams a bunch of different looks, then our group of centers is better than most of the groups you listed above. For example, the first team you listed was Boston. I would actually argue that by most standards Foster, DD, Harrison, and Pollard are better than LaFrentz, Blount, and Jefferson (granted Jefferson has the most upside), but if we are talking about a combo of any of those players plus Walker, I will take JO and our guy. We argued last summer alot about who would be better than who we have to pair with JO. Since we obtained Davis, I don't think there are many players that we could add that would improve the Pacers at center and give us more flexibility.

    As far as potential, I meant what I said. This group has the potential to be a great group of centers that are smart, veteran, play good defense, and compliment JO perfectly. It is potentially a great group because we have never ...not for one game, seen them all healthy and available at the same time. So as far as potential, outside of Harrison, I'm not talking about liklihood of individual improvement. I'm talking about potential as in the potential for a group to be great together.

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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH


    Questions then. IF WE STAND PAT, HOW DO WE IMPROVE OUR REBOUNDING AND INTERIOR DEFENSE??? Is RC going to suddenly quit running 4 players back to stop tansition?

    ANSWER: Only by totally revamping our defensive schemes and teaching the players we have to box out. They haven't learned it yet, what makes anyone think they ever will?




    oh, and Ron Artest is not a rebounder so he is not the answer either.


    Unless DD regains his hops or we provide a heart transplant for DH, an upgrade is needed...badly.
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH


    Questions then. IF WE STAND PAT, HOW DO WE IMPROVE OUR REBOUNDING AND INTERIOR DEFENSE??? Is RC going to suddenly quit running 4 players back to stop tansition?

    ANSWER: Only by totally revamping our defensive schemes and teaching the players we have to box out. They haven't learned it yet, what makes anyone think they ever will?




    oh, and Ron Artest is not a rebounder so he is not the answer either.


    Unless DD regains his hops or we provide a heart transplant for DH, an upgrade is needed...badly.


    What?

    I disagree with almost all of your post.

    The Pacers actually block out very well, in fact the only player who does not block out is J.O. he just rarely does.

    On the rebounding issue. Part of it is the Pacers approach to transition defense. But that only hurts the offensive rebounding. With Reggie gone who has been a terrible rebounder his whole career, the Pacers will be a better rebounding team, if you look the Pacers backcourt always gets outrebounded - but that will now change.


    ___________________________________________
    "oh, and Ron Artest is not a rebounder so he is not the answer either".
    ______________________________________________

    He did average 8 rebounds per game in the ECF last season. But I admit that was an aberration - he generally does not get a lot of rebounds himself. But he makes the Pacers a very good rebounding team.

    Ron is great at blocking out, his man gets very few offensive rebs, and because Ron's defense is so good that helps the Pacers rebound better.

    If we assume the Pacers lineup is Tins, Jax, Ron, J.O and either Dale or Ieff, I promise you the Pacers will be in the top 4 in defensive rebounding % and in the top 6 in overall rebounding %

    Rebounding will not be a problem at all next season.

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    I'll end on this note: The real star of this team is Rick Carlisle and the trick will be to build a team around him. He's a special coach. As I pointed out to Kstat in another thread, it took Larry Brown over 25 years and far more than 4 playoff appearances to win a title. Rick will do it much sooner.
    Great point.

    I think this would make for an interesting thread in itself.

    What do you think Rick's ideal team is? How would you go about building a team around him, what trades/changes do you think need to be done?
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    I'll end on this note: The real star of this team is Rick Carlisle and the trick will be to build a team around him. He's a special coach. As I pointed out to Kstat in another thread, it took Larry Brown over 25 years and far more than 4 playoff appearances to win a title. Rick will do it much sooner.
    I am sorry, but despite all the respect I have for whaty Rick has done and does, I have to disagree with this.

    In my opinion the role Brown plays is heavily under-estimated, he's responsible for the defense, the one thing we had going for us in most parts of the season, and it seems he is much more a "players-coach" then Rick is.

    Outside of the time we fell back to offense we ran in the '97-00 era, our offense has been anything but exciting or good.

    To furthermore, consider trading JO would be a colossal mistake, and I think considering his market value at the moment, so would trading Ron be, add to that trading JT would mean finding a team under the cap (he is BYC this coming year) and you are far more "limited" then you think.
    Trading Ron or JO would mean a total re-vamping and certainly not bring us any closer to a championship then we are now.

    IF we are to trade to make this team a team after Rick's image (think AJ as starting PG) then we simply have more players to throw away and can relax for the next couple of years, as I do not see a championship on the horizon in that case, not to mention the loss of revenue a total revsamp would be, considering the most recognizable face just retired and trading away one or more starters would only make it harder to fill seats.

    As far as the 1 spot goes, I see Harrisson starting before Christmas, and consider a line-up of Harrisson, O'Neal and Artest with JT and Jax (where I would even have Jax coming of the bench preferably) as a phenomonal threat for any contender.

    IF we re-sign DD, then he can make sure Hulk is learning the NBA in the fast lane, and Jeff, Cro and Pollard are expendable.
    With the draft of a PG Gill is expendable and so would signing the Euro PG make AJ expendable (his trade value is probably at an all time high right now)
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    I am sorry, but despite all the respect I have for whaty Rick has done and does, I have to disagree with this.

    In my opinion the role Brown plays is heavily under-estimated, he's responsible for the defense, the one thing we had going for us in most parts of the season, and it seems he is much more a "players-coach" then Rick is.


    Then how do you explain the success Rick had in Detroit?

    Also, Greg Popovich was successful with Brown in San Antonio, and still is successful without Brown in San Antonio. Brown is wonderful at relating to the players, I'm sure, but this team isn't going to become a defensive sieve if he would happen to leave.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  21. #21
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    What?

    I disagree with almost all of your post.

    The Pacers actually block out very well, in fact the only player who does not block out is J.O. he just rarely does.

    On the rebounding issue. Part of it is the Pacers approach to transition defense. But that only hurts the offensive rebounding. With Reggie gone who has been a terrible rebounder his whole career, the Pacers will be a better rebounding team, if you look the Pacers backcourt always gets outrebounded - but that will now change.


    ___________________________________________
    "oh, and Ron Artest is not a rebounder so he is not the answer either".
    ______________________________________________

    He did average 8 rebounds per game in the ECF last season. But I admit that was an aberration - he generally does not get a lot of rebounds himself. But he makes the Pacers a very good rebounding team.

    Ron is great at blocking out, his man gets very few offensive rebs, and because Ron's defense is so good that helps the Pacers rebound better.

    If we assume the Pacers lineup is Tins, Jax, Ron, J.O and either Dale or Ieff, I promise you the Pacers will be in the top 4 in defensive rebounding % and in the top 6 in overall rebounding %
    Rebounding will not be a problem at all next season.
    Sorry UB, we simply disagree. We are outrebounded by 1.25 Rpg....Detroit outrebounds their opponents by nearly 4 rpg. BIG DIF in my opinion, and since it is Detroit I aim to destroy, we have to improve by over 5 rpg to be even with them. As to Ron, when under the basket he can do a good job of boxing out or just plain out-muscling his opponent but, for the most part he is defending too far out on the floor to be effective inside presence. Good for stopping penetration, bad for rebounding.

    That is a HUGE move up in the rebounding standings you are promising UB. Do you really think DD can standup to that many minutes reg season and PO's? Or that Jeff can keep that rebounding pace up over the entire time? I am firly convinced that we will get beaten down physically, again, and at the end of the next year's playoffs we will once again be lamenting the fact that.."If only JO hadn't been injured...or Jeff....or....."

    We need a rebounding big man that can stand up to the punishment.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

  22. #22
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    We won't ever be a great rebounding team unless A) JO takes his board work to that next level of commitment (he has the ability to be very good), or B) someone else steps up and becomes that "special" rebounder alongside JO.

    Our team as of now would be an above average rebounding team, but would always get killed on the boards by Detroit.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  23. #23
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    With Ron in the line up last year we were something of around +1.25 last year in rebounds, that was without Jackson, who is a good rebounder for his position aswell. This season ... well I find it hard to draw a lot of conclusions on the rebounding part, because of all of the suspensions and injuries that, except for the latest stretch (in which we , obviously, still played without Artest) and play-offs we didn't have a group of players without serious gaps due to the above mentioned circumstances, which is why I mentioned the previous season.

    In other words, I'm not concerned about our rebounding for next year. I don't view getting equal or more rebounds as the as Pistons critical either. As long as we get within around 2 of them at about +2.75-3.25 rebs per game, I'm a happy man .

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  24. #24
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    I gotta believe having Jax at the SG position makes the rebounding situation better. He was in the same position as Ron, always guarding the best shooter out on the perimeter. By having Ron lock down on the outside, that allows Jax to become free and hit the boards. He had decent numbers this year, but he always got the missed FT rebound so that inflated them a little bit.

  25. #25
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking ahead part 3......

    Geezer, I promise. Go back and look at he rebounding stats from the 04 season. pacers were pretty good, and they'll be better next season.

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