View Poll Results: PD versin of MFK - What do you do with PG13?

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  • Keep PG13 and "Go ALL IN"

    53 50.48%
  • Trade PG13 and "Re-TOOL"

    13 12.38%
  • Trade PG13 and "Re-BUILD"

    33 31.43%
  • Other?

    6 5.71%
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Thread: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

  1. #226
    Member Grimp's Avatar
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Interesting that a story about the Hawks having offered 4 first round picks at the Feb. trade deadline is now being reported. Just find the timing interesting.
    That was originally reported on trade deadline day. Denver offered something close to that also.

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  3. #227
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    I say if Pritchard fails this offseason we hand the keys to Grimp. He's put in his time.

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  5. #228
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I say if Pritchard fails this offseason we hand the keys to Grimp. He's put in his time.
    They wouldn't want a young upstart like me running things. Not until I'm at least 40 or older.

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  7. #229

    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    That was originally reported on trade deadline day. Denver offered something close to that also.
    "Source? You're making that up. You're full of bologna!"

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  9. #230
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    "Source? You're making that up. You're full of bologna!"
    It was tweeted on trade deadline day. Hawks and Nuggets made offers. Hawks 4 1sts, Nuggets I think 3 firsts and players.

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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I say if Pritchard fails this offseason we hand the keys to Grimp. He's put in his time.
    Grimp would probably trade PG for Nick Young, lol.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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  12. #232

    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I say if Pritchard fails this offseason we hand the keys to Grimp. He's put in his time.
    It depends on what you would consider failing. I mean a lot of us liked the moves Bird made last offseason and it didn't turn out so well. I think whatever moves Pritchard makes won't be pass or fail until we see it on the court.

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  14. #233
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    I'd not get overly excited over the 4-#1's the Hawks offered- they were the Hawks #1 in 2017 pick #19, the T'wolves #1 in 2018 , their own pick in 2019 and the Cavs #1 in 2019.

    Of those only the T'wolves pick in 2018 looks as a good pick baring the Wolves improving this season, the 2017 Hawks picks is immediately after the Pacers 18th pick, the Cavs 2019 pick assuming LeBron or Kyrie don't retire or have a terrible injury is likely at best even in 2019 a late 20's pick, the Hawks 2019 1st who knows.

    Its not as good an offers as you'd be mislead to believe by the headlines.

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  16. #234
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    I'd not get overly excited over the 4-#1's the Hawks offered- they were the Hawks #1 in 2017 pick #19, the T'wolves #1 in 2018 , their own pick in 2019 and the Cavs #1 in 2019.

    Of those only the T'wolves pick in 2018 looks as a good pick baring the Wolves improving this season, the 2017 Hawks picks is immediately after the Pacers 18th pick, the Cavs 2019 pick assuming LeBron or Kyrie don't retire or have a terrible injury is likely at best even in 2019 a late 20's pick, the Hawks 2019 1st who knows.

    Its not as good an offers as you'd be mislead to believe by the headlines.
    Not even that. The Twolves pick is guaranteed to be non-lottery, and turns into 2nd round picks if not conveyed by 2020. The offer is really just a bunch of late picks. But apparently some people here are fans of the shotgun approach...

    Getting it right is more important than getting more attempts IMO. And anyway, there's only so many young players you can reasonably develop at a time, as teams like the Celtics and Sixers have found. YMMV.

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  18. #235

    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    I'd not get overly excited over the 4-#1's the Hawks offered- they were the Hawks #1 in 2017 pick #19, the T'wolves #1 in 2018 , their own pick in 2019 and the Cavs #1 in 2019.

    Of those only the T'wolves pick in 2018 looks as a good pick baring the Wolves improving this season, the 2017 Hawks picks is immediately after the Pacers 18th pick, the Cavs 2019 pick assuming LeBron or Kyrie don't retire or have a terrible injury is likely at best even in 2019 a late 20's pick, the Hawks 2019 1st who knows.

    Its not as good an offers as you'd be mislead to believe by the headlines.
    Someone should tell Brian windhorst this bc he wouldn't shut up about it the other day ago. I didn't know the details of the 1st rounders but now that I see It's not much of a offer. Also you aren't getting a proven nba starter at least? That doesn't seem like much of an offer. 4 number 1's makes it sound a lot better.

  19. #236

    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    I say we keep him, let the season play out and force him to make the decision. Like others, I don't it's some given that he's going to LA. Hell they already have a potential stud in Ingram who plays the same position.

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  20. #237
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    If TPTB cannot discern what PG might do then you go all in
    If TPTB cannot discern what PG might do then that pretty much tells everyone exactly what he most probably will do... leave.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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  22. #238

    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If TPTB cannot discern what PG might do then that pretty much tells everyone exactly what he most probably will do... leave.
    Lol how?


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  23. #239
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I've lived through the 20 win seasons and I'm not talking one or two season, I'm talking 4 and even then getting out of the 20's only meant another 8 years of just being mediocre with one of those years another dip down into the 20's. People its a lot harder than you think it is. We had several lottery picks including 3 # 2 picks and we still could not pull out of it. Losing begets losing mostly.

    That being said I understand sometimes you just have to and you have no choice. But IMO we still have a choice. Unless Paul is lying and is already wearing gold and purple undies then he said he would stay if we were a contender. I know it would be a damn near hail marry to do it but anybody not named Paul George would be on the block and that includes Myles Turner which I believe you could get quit a haul for. I'd do anything to bring in anyone who could help us win right now which would include Dwight Howard if he could be had for the right price.

    We've never had a player of Paul's skill set. I would move heaven and earth to keep him. But only if he would really be willing to be here.
    Part of all of those 20 win seasons was because the franchise, and the NBA in general, was in poor financial shape. Always having to get rid of draft picks because they wouldn't be able to afford salary. Whatever the exact details were, it was very much a 1970's and 1980's bunch of problems that the current Pacers wouldn't face. In most sports today, teams have to try to be "bottom of the barrel" bad for several years in a row. They'd get some draft picks that actually want to play here and that would keep butts in the seats to the point where they wouldn't be dropping curtains in the upper level. Even letting Teague walk and trading PG for 25 cents on the dollar (at worst) they'd still have money to sign SOMEONE since the money has to be spent. At worst, they'd be awful for two years and back to 35-42 wins (like they already are) in 3 or 4 years.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

  24. #240
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by timid View Post
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    Lol how?


    Sent from my SM-G900T1 using Tapatalk
    TPTB "Paul, do you want to re-sign with us, yes or no?"

    PG "Maybe"

    TPTB "What's it going to take?"

    PG "I want to win"

    TPTB "Here? You want to win here, right?"

    PG "I guess. Sure. Or somewhere."

    TPTB "So what do you think we need to do to show you our commitment to you and get that contract signed?"

    PG "Yeah, just a good team, man"

    TPTB "So no names or types you'd like us to go for?"

    PG "I'm not the GM. That's you guy's"

    TPTB "Well, if I get a list of potential targets would you want to look at it and see if we're on the same page? Maybe rank them?"

    PG "Maybe. I'd look at the list"

    TPTB "If you and me can narrow down the list, do you want to sit in on meetings with them? Maybe do some recruiting?"

    PG "I don't know if I want that responsibility. I might. Maybe if you get the list ready I can look at it and we go from there"

    TPTB "So you wouldn't rather be involved with making the list in the first place?"

    PG "I don't know. That's a lot of pressure."

    TPTB "We have our future to think about. The way we use our assets to build around you would be totally different than what we would do if you are going to leave us. We need some guidance from you to know what paths to really take."

    PG "Yeah, I understand, but this is about my future too"

    TPTB "But do you see your future as a Pacer? Do you definitely want to be here?"

    PG "Yeah. Sure. Definitely. ....Maybe...."

    ==================

    Kind of like that.... If PG is confident and sure and totally involved in helping the Pacers to understand his vision for his future and the future he'd like to see with the team then they should be working toward making it happen (unless it's crazy demands and so they should then understand they don't want to do, or can't do, what he's requesting).

    OTOH, if he's being a wishy washy, non-committal, flip flopping, behind the doors saying one thing while investigators are hearing others from around the league, then that should tell them what his likely thinking is.
    If he has one foot out the door, it should be obvious from the inside like TPTB are. Between dealing with him directly and from hearing from inside sources, a definite leaning should be obvious.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  26. #241
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If TPTB cannot discern what PG might do then that pretty much tells everyone exactly what he most probably will do... leave.

    There are a lot of moving parts to this situation. A lot of it depends on PG's honesty. He may not be honest as he does not want his future team depleted because of a trade,
    ie Lakers. Maybe he is not absolutely sure? Maybe he wants the Pacers to trade him so he can say all he ever wanted to do was win and the Pacers look like the bad guy and gave up on him. Maybe the Pacers will not trade him and will try and put some better players around him and try to get past Lebron one more time and let the chips fall where they may.


    Ultimately I think he is gone this year and goes home to the Lakers.


    Maybe Gordon Hayward wants to come home.

    Sad situation that we will not get to see PG finally beat Lebron and I think he would have and would have gone to the finals and won.
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  27. #242
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post
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    Part of all of those 20 win seasons was because the franchise, and the NBA in general, was in poor financial shape. Always having to get rid of draft picks because they wouldn't be able to afford salary. Whatever the exact details were, it was very much a 1970's and 1980's bunch of problems that the current Pacers wouldn't face. In most sports today, teams have to try to be "bottom of the barrel" bad for several years in a row. They'd get some draft picks that actually want to play here and that would keep butts in the seats to the point where they wouldn't be dropping curtains in the upper level. Even letting Teague walk and trading PG for 25 cents on the dollar (at worst) they'd still have money to sign SOMEONE since the money has to be spent. At worst, they'd be awful for two years and back to 35-42 wins (like they already are) in 3 or 4 years.

    You make that sound so automatic.

    Let us review the Minnesota Timberwolves record for the past 10 years.

    32-50
    22-60
    24-58
    15-67
    17-65
    26-40
    31-51
    40-42
    16-66
    29-53
    31-51

    One year in the past 10 they have come close to almost being mediocre. Do you have any idea how many times in that decade they have started over or blown it up? I don't either but I know its more than twice. One of the big problems facing these franchises is that the losing wears on players. So let's say you draft a good player do you really think they cherish the thought of spending 7 years of their career winning 20-30 games a year. We have Paul George wanting to bolt right now and he has played in the playoffs almost every year he has been in the league and we've never been in the 30 win column during his tenure.

    You say that the Wolves are an anomaly, take a look at the 10 year record of the Kings or Wizards prior to the previous 3 years or 76ers or almost any other team that has tanked out. Sure there are a few who get that once in a generation player but they are few and far between.

    Also your version of what happened during the 80's is only partially correct. Yes we were a financial mess, no doubt. However for the most part the Pacers had their own top pick during the 80's (obviously minus the idiotic trade for Tom Owens) and we even got the # 2 pick 3 times and several top 10 picks (including taking the ROY at # 4). None of the top picks ever turned the club around and only after about 8 years did any of the picks who stuck it out started to gel into any form of a team and only then after they got Larry Brown to coach. Prior to hiring Brown the general standard thought was that we needed to start over again.

    Look I'm not saying tanking doesn't work on occasion, it does and there are things that can prove it. However tanking as a general rule typically begets losing which generally begets more losing and there are things that can prove that as well.

    There are no guarantees and there is no ONE way to win, if there were everybody would do it.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  29. #243
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    Default POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    http://twitter.com/JoshEberley/statu...89370755883008

    It says:
    2017 #15, 20, 26, 2018 #1 (top 8 protected) and Crabbe for PG


    I'd have to give some serious thought if I believed PG is gone after next season.


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  30. #244
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by indyman411 View Post
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    http://twitter.com/JoshEberley/statu...89370755883008

    It says:
    2017 #15, 20, 26, 2018 #1 (top 8 protected) and Crabbe for PG


    I'd have to give some serious thought if I believed PG is gone after next season.


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    I'd do 15 + 20 + 2018 top 5 protected + McCollum for PG. Not Crabbe, and they can keep the 26th pick.

    But I guess that's only if you can't get the Celtics or Lakers to pony up higher picks, and knowing PG wanted out.

    Would the 15, 18 and 20th picks be enough to entice the Kings for the 5th overall pick or Magic at 6? I'd love to get either Fox or Isaacs.

    So walking away with McCollum and either Fox/Isaacs would be a pretty big win.
    Last edited by Sparhawk; 05-21-2017 at 06:12 PM.
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  32. #245
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    You make that sound so automatic.

    Let us review the Minnesota Timberwolves record for the past 10 years.

    32-50
    22-60
    24-58
    15-67
    17-65
    26-40
    31-51
    40-42
    16-66
    29-53
    31-51

    One year in the past 10 they have come close to almost being mediocre. Do you have any idea how many times in that decade they have started over or blown it up? I don't either but I know its more than twice. One of the big problems facing these franchises is that the losing wears on players. So let's say you draft a good player do you really think they cherish the thought of spending 7 years of their career winning 20-30 games a year. We have Paul George wanting to bolt right now and he has played in the playoffs almost every year he has been in the league and we've never been in the 30 win column during his tenure.

    You say that the Wolves are an anomaly, take a look at the 10 year record of the Kings or Wizards prior to the previous 3 years or 76ers or almost any other team that has tanked out. Sure there are a few who get that once in a generation player but they are few and far between.

    Also your version of what happened during the 80's is only partially correct. Yes we were a financial mess, no doubt. However for the most part the Pacers had their own top pick during the 80's (obviously minus the idiotic trade for Tom Owens) and we even got the # 2 pick 3 times and several top 10 picks (including taking the ROY at # 4). None of the top picks ever turned the club around and only after about 8 years did any of the picks who stuck it out started to gel into any form of a team and only then after they got Larry Brown to coach. Prior to hiring Brown the general standard thought was that we needed to start over again.

    Look I'm not saying tanking doesn't work on occasion, it does and there are things that can prove it. However tanking as a general rule typically begets losing which generally begets more losing and there are things that can prove that as well.

    There are no guarantees and there is no ONE way to win, if there were everybody would do it.
    They've already had a taste of how bad things could be if he left FOR NOTHING--he was out for a year. Did they only win 20 games then? Did the franchise fall apart? It's not a stretch to think getting something in return for him would put them well above your worst-case scenario. What if he was surprisingly more responsible for some of the nonsense ("selfish dudes" era, etc) and general lack of chemistry than what the average fanboy would ever believe? You don't see any chance for the team to say, "finally, that drama is somewhere else" and end up better off in the long run with players who aren't worried about who they can recruit and take with them to their next team?
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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  34. #246
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I'd do 15 + 20 + 2018 top 5 protected + McCollum for PG. Not Crabbe, and they can keep the 26th pick.

    But I guess that's only if you can't get the Celtics or Lakers to pony up higher picks, and knowing PG wanted out.

    Would the 15, 18 and 20th picks be enough to entice the Kings for the 5th overall pick or Magic at 6? I'd love to get either Fox or Isaacs.

    So walking away with McCollum and either Fox/Isaacs would be a pretty big win.
    Maybe it is just me, but I'm not going to trade PG for a protected pick.

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  36. #247
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post
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    They've already had a taste of how bad things could be if he left FOR NOTHING--he was out for a year. Did they only win 20 games then? Did the franchise fall apart? It's not a stretch to think getting something in return for him would put them well above your worst-case scenario. What if he was surprisingly more responsible for some of the nonsense ("selfish dudes" era, etc) and general lack of chemistry than what the average fanboy would ever believe? You don't see any chance for the team to say, "finally, that drama is somewhere else" and end up better off in the long run with players who aren't worried about who they can recruit and take with them to their next team?
    Well not to beat this dead horse but there is one HUGE difference between now and the year Paul broke his leg and that difference now coach's in Orlando. Do I think we might find out that Paul was a disruption behind the scenes? Sure, its possible and maybe even probable to a point but Paul is also something else that nobody on this team now or then comes close to. One of the top players in the NBA. I don't care about All NBA teams or other awards, I believe Paul is easily a top 20 player (probably much higher than that). But the drop off from Paul our best player to our second best player is like falling from the 101st floor to the first. Our second best player is either a second year player who hit the wall hard in the second half and never really recovered or a player who has been an NBA castaway for the past 3 years and was revived here in Indiana. So yes IMO you take Paul George off of the team as we have it currently constructed we are a low 30's win team.

    Now that does say something about Paul but it really say's much more about the state of our franchise. I just believe we are absolutely talent starved.

    Look again I'll say it. If we believe Paul is going to walk no matter what then yes move him now and get the best deal you can. But if he is serious about giving us a chance then IMO it would be better to make whatever moves necessary to win now and keep him. The draft is a crap shoot at best and even under the best of circumstances it takes years to develop most players.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  38. #248
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    I think the reality is that team got a lot of wins because of familiarity. Vogel obviously is not the main reason or else he'd be able to do the same thing in Orlando.
    Last edited by freddielewis14; 05-21-2017 at 07:10 PM.

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  40. #249
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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I think the reality is that team got a lot of wins because of familiarity. Vogel obviously is not the main reason or else he'd be able to do the same thing in Orlando.
    Well at least you didn't say it was because Dan Burke this time.

    Familiarity would be a little hard to have considering that we had a new point guard for most of the season (remember Hill was injured as well), a new shooting guard (remember Lance walked), Power forward (West was injured for 18 or so games) and oh a new small forward as Paul was injured himself.

    So yes the fact that 4 of the 5 starters were in new roles or just new to the team they were all very familiar with each other. Not to mention a rebooting of the entire bench.


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    Default Re: POLL - What do you want to do with PG13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Well at least you didn't say it was because Dan Burke this time.

    Familiarity would be a little hard to have considering that we had a new point guard for most of the season (remember Hill was injured as well), a new shooting guard (remember Lance walked), Power forward (West was injured for 18 or so games) and oh a new small forward as Paul was injured himself.

    So yes the fact that 4 of the 5 starters were in new roles or just new to the team they were all very familiar with each other. Not to mention a rebooting of the entire bench.
    I never said it was because of Dan Burke, I said it wasn't only Vogel and Burke played a major role. And from the looks of Orlando's defense I was right.

    Yes we had injuries that year, but I think having a consistent identity and continuity helped us eek out some wins that season.

    Again, Vogel had one of the worst records in the league last year, I don't understand why he's still credited as a guy that can get the most out of any team.

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