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Thread: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

  1. #26
    Chambizzle
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Tinsley is good but that's only when the moon is aligned correctly.. and also when he wants to show up.

    AJ is a decent backup but he needs to learn how to decide on what he's doing instead of holding the ball 12 plus seconds every time he brings it up court.

    Time to stop hoping things will get better.. I think we need a player at PG that is consistent enough to help us get over that bridesmaid hump.

    Someone that's an immediate threat.

  2. #27
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Outside of making a run at Jason Kidd, I don't really think there's an available PG that is clearly better than Tinsley.

    If we trade Tinsley, I want someone who plays better defense and shoots better thank Tinsley in return. Outside of using him to shoot up in the draft, I don't really know who'd that be.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  3. #28
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Naming names...
    What about the foreign PG that Bird has supposedly been following?

    I remember someone commenting about him replacing AJ... and I replied "Maybe it isn't AJ they are looking to replace?"

    I'm sure someone knows the name of the player I am talking about. I'm surprised someone hasn't already brought it up considering there have been recent reports and threads here about Bird's interest.

    In 'speculation mode' doesn't this all kind of 'fit'?

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  4. #29
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    This draft is supposed to be one of the deepest PG drafts in a while.

    Maybe we are going to package Ron and Tinsley together for one great player, and try to snag a PG who drops too low in the draft?

    Or, even more interesting... we could package JO and Tinsley together.

    I freely admit I don't know how BYC works though, just wishful thinking here, really.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  5. #30
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    This draft is supposed to be one of the deepest PG drafts in a while.

    Maybe we are going to package Ron and Tinsley together for one great player, and try to snag a PG who drops too low in the draft?

    Or, even more interesting... we could package JO and Tinsley together.

    I freely admit I don't know how BYC works though, just wishful thinking here, really.

    I would be shocked... shocked... shocked... to see the Pacers get anyone but a veteran for the starting PG role or first off the bench.

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  6. #31
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I would be shocked... shocked... shocked... to see the Pacers get anyone but a veteran for the starting PG role or first off the bench.

    -Bball
    But what veterans are worth trading Tinsley for, that are available?

    There aren't many.
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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    But what veterans are worth trading Tinsley for, that are available?

    There aren't many.
    Did you not read the post I made just before the one you are replying to? Maybe the Pacers really are interested in this guy:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=11775
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  8. #33
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    I read that.

    That player will never move Tinsley to the bench, and would be considered a rookie coming into the league, anyway.

    So, once again: What available veterans are worth trading/benching Tinsley for?
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  9. #34
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    i could see where larry would like Jasikevicius...he strikes me as a bird kinda player....all around game and can shoot...larry loves guys that can shoot....and this team is probably lacking outside shooting as much as anything....

    as far as who might be available....i cant help but wonder about guys like stoudamire, van exel, mobley....i have my doubts as to whether any of these guys would be the answer, but for the most part theyre considered decent shooters...they also seem to have issues, but who knows...

    once we get into this speculation mode....well...seems like anything can be twisted around to meet ones desired effect....

    kidd is always brought up....and ive never really felt like he was a good fit here....not as good as some have made him out to be...but with reggie now gone...that might be a bit different....this team definitely needs some veteran leadership....i think dale would will take over some of that...but i wonder if theyre thinking at all about someone like kidd or payton...id could see them going to an older guy like that for a couple years and then maybe trying to get one of the many point guards in the draft to groom for the future-if they have their doubts about tinsley-which im not sure they do-nor do i....but i do wonder if they like his leadership abilities out of that position....

    and i have a feeling that new jersey isnt gonna be to helpful when it comes to trading kidd to the pacers...even if he wanted to come here-which, although we definitely are title contenders, i dont think indy is jasons kind of place....

    i assume the pacers wouldnt trade artest and jo in any scenario barring a garnett deal....so im not sure of any trade that begins with tins(byc) and anyone else would excite jersey at all...though i could see them somewhat being interested in tinsley if they had to give up kidd...as tins is kinda a poor mans jason kidd...he distributes the ball first and has great court vision and an average at best outside shot....

    again...all this is speculation...just throwing thoughts out there...also wonder about guys like McInnis, brevin knight, bobby jackson, jason williams, jay williams, sam cassell, antonio daniels....

    and as i type this, i find myself wondering....are any of these really viable scenarios for making the team better?? after all the pacers did just sign both tinsley and johnson to fairly long term deals....who knows...

  10. #35
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    BYC... long term deals... etc...
    Don't let that stuff distract you. IF Donnie Walsh WANTS to move a player he will find a way to do it IF that player has any trade value at all.

    -Bball
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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  11. #36
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Seriously...what about Marbury?

  12. #37
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by cramerica
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    Seriously...what about Marbury?
    Starbury??????? cmonnnnn.....

    actually hes a great talent....seems to have a serious attitude problem....seems to become very discontent....remember, he chose to leave kg-that is very hard to imagine....

    he rarely plays defense....i think the term cancer gets thrown around way too much...but he seems to have a number of issues wherever he ends up....he is a helluva weapon though....not really sure how he would fit in with this team....and i have serious concerns about how he would get along with carlisle and his tendency towards structure....

    he makes alot of money....and i find the concept of isiah doing a deal with bird a little hard to fathom....and isiah would want artest....ive said before the knicks would love to get artest...but im really not sure of anyone on their team id want in return....

    if they wanna take bender and croshere for marbury, then fine...or even pollard and one of the other 2....but not even zeke would do that...


  13. #38
    Jesus Shuttlesworth
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    The only PGs that would be worth trading Tinsley for are Hinrich, Ridnour, Arenas, Nash, or Kidd. None of those would happen anyway.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Ok if we get Starbury I will not be able to watch the Pacers any more. With Reggie retired and Steph on the team there would just be nothing for me to watch.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Give Tins a break. He has to improve on the maturity front. He has this street ball ego thing on some plays and that definitely hurts. But to give up on some one so soon would be disaster later. He is the one who got us into the second round and made us take Detroit to 6.

    When his head is fine, he is top 5pg in the league. We don't know if he will be that way consistently. To find out I am willing to wait another year. Then he won't be a base year player and his salary is reasonable for other teams to bite on a trade.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Ok if we get Starbury I will not be able to watch the Pacers any more. With Reggie retired and Steph on the team there would just be nothing for me to watch.
    If you could find a coach who'd get Marbury to play defense and cut down on his outside shots you'd have an absolute monster player on your hand because he's very good at running an offense.

    I don't know if that coach is out there. If he is, it's probably either Rick Carlisle or Larry Brown. I'm hoping Herb Williams is but I have my doubts.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  17. #42
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Good point he will be base year this year.

    Hey if we trade Pollard and Jones for a top notch PG AND keep Jamaal I would be happy as could be. I want us to have 2 good point guards not just one.
    That or getting that 2nd "good" point guard via trading up in the draft is exactly what I hope we'll do. Playing a draftee at a veteran team does bring major risks on the short term though. On the other hand on the longer term, 2 years and up, it might very well be the best thing to do. I haven't really decided this issue for myself yet.

    Regards,

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  18. #43
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    That or getting that 2nd "good" point guard via trading up in the draft is exactly what I hope we'll do. Playing a draftee at a veteran team does bring major risks on the short term though. On the other hand on the longer term, 2 years and up, it might very well be the best thing to do. I haven't really decided this issue for myself yet.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    call me crazy, but i have a hard time picturing rick playing a rookie point guard much....remember...tinsley was the third guard behind kenny anderson and aj at the beginning of last year...given ricks propensity to not play young players, im fraid a rookie will sit most of the time...that why i was kinda hoping that we draft a point guard with our pick, but more to be the 3rd guard as i have a feeling that would be the best that rick would allow....and theres a ton of depth in this draft at pg...i think the jack kid has been mentioned and might be an interesting pick...dunno...i just cant see rick playing a rookie pg much....then the question becomes do u use a draft pick on a pg that really probably doesnt have much of a future here

  19. #44
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    call me crazy, but i have a hard time picturing rick playing a rookie point guard much....remember...tinsley was the third guard behind kenny anderson and aj at the beginning of last year...given ricks propensity to not play young players, im fraid a rookie will sit most of the time...that why i was kinda hoping that we draft a point guard with our pick, but more to be the 3rd guard as i have a feeling that would be the best that rick would allow....and theres a ton of depth in this draft at pg...i think the jack kid has been mentioned and might be an interesting pick...dunno...i just cant see rick playing a rookie pg much....then the question becomes do u use a draft pick on a pg that really probably doesnt have much of a future here
    I aggree on doubting that Rick would play that PG pick a lot of minutes in his first year. I mentioned that too on another thread around here by Peck that deals with our point guard position. That's why it might be CRUCIAL to deal AJ so Rick HAS to play this new player. However, that brings the real risk of Tins playing in what I consider too many minutes again and thus bringing into danger his durability again as I want Tins to be playing between 28 and 32 minutes a game. So, maybe Larry and/or Doony should apply some pressure on Rick on this.

    Regards,

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  20. #45
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    If you could find a coach who'd get Marbury to play defense and cut down on his outside shots you'd have an absolute monster player on your hand because he's very good at running an offense.

    I don't know if that coach is out there. If he is, it's probably either Rick Carlisle or Larry Brown. I'm hoping Herb Williams is but I have my doubts.
    I agree.

    But that is one risk I don't want the Pacers taking.

    What about Crawford, DK? How's he at PG?
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  21. #46
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    No way in H will we get someone better than Jamaal in trade. He's getting better every year and will continue to do so IMO.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    I agree.

    But that is one risk I don't want the Pacers taking.

    What about Crawford, DK? How's he at PG?
    More spectacular passing (Marbury very rarely makes the "great" pass - just draws the defense and tosses to the open guy) even better at breaking down the defense and can get real goofy with his shot selection and decision-making. The Knicks used him at PG and Marbury at SG quite a bit the last few games of the year - the results were mixed. But never boring.

    And while Marbury is a bad defender, Crawford's horrendous. Both of them could be pretty good though - Crawford maybe better than that - if they made it a priority.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  23. #48
    Diesel
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Thats only because Tinsley can't stay healthy. When he's healthy hes one of the top pgs in the league and we also have AJ whos become one of the best backup pg's in the league. The problem is our starter is always injured and then were forced to play Gill for 20minutes a night who probably couldn't start for a NBDL team.

  24. #49
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    I really think Carlisle's talking about the backup PG spot.
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