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Thread: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    MM is on JMV show and said he thinks they need to upgrade the point guard point position. And he's not talking about AJ

    MM also said that Rick had a press cofnerence today and repeated his comments from last night about how they need to gt better and changes are likely

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Because I feel like getting shot, I will say that I think this team could flourish with a Jason Terry type of guard. The defense would be no better, but the way Rick runs this team we'd get more out of a guard that could kill you from 3.

    Think AJ with better handles, quicker, and is a serious 3 point threat.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Clearly I disagree. I think Tinsley is the PERFECT pg for out team. However I love the Pacers more than I love Jamaal's game. If he is always going to be injured then I can see trading him for someone who wont.

    It just Amazes me that people who will wait on Bender have given up on a player with FAR FAR more ability. I am willing to wait another year on Jamaal and see if he can play and entire season and series without being out a long time. Sassan said that team people told him that Jamaal's injury had flared back up because he came back too soon. IMO we would not have even gotten one game against Detroit had he not played let alone gotten out of the 1st round without him. Thats not a player you dump.

    What we need is an Aroyyo like backup. In other words a real pg to be the backup not a slow sg with pg height. Both of the Pistons backups were better than our backup. It is an area we need to upgrade. I think AJ played well late into the season but he is terrible against Detroit. And if we want to win a title that means getting a pg who can distribute and drive to the basket as our backup.

    On the issue of replacing the starting pg Jamaal when healthy is a top 5 pg. (IMO he is in the top 3) who do you get to replace him who is not a SERIOUS downgrade. The Suns are not trading Nash. The Nets are not going to give us Kidd. After that it is a drop in talent.

    Maybe the way to go would be a pg we can distribute to an extent (at least better than AJ) but can shoot the lights out ala Nick Van Excel or a player who has started but is earning the end like Sam Cassell.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Rick prefers PGs like Travis and Chauncey, and they might as well give Rick the types of players he wants.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Rick prefers PGs like Travis and Chauncey, and they might as well give Rick the types of players he wants.
    I would rather dump Rick than ever see Travis Best in a Pacer uniform again.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    I would rather dump Rick than ever see Travis Best in a Pacer uniform again.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I will say that I think this team could flourish with a Jason Terry type of guard.
    Well, Terry's not going anywhere, so who did you have in mind? Starbury?

    When I look at a lineup that includes Jermaine, Artest, and Jackson, my first thought is "we need another guy in the starting five that needs the ball!" I'd love a deadeye shooter off the bench, but that's a different story.
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    I have been on a real roller-coaster ride with JT from the moment he got here. When he's good he's very good but Detroit has exposed his mental weakness. Frustrate him and he can destroy the Pacers as quick as anything. Is it maturity or mental toughness? I guess that's what the coaches are paid to determine and I'm not.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Nick Van Exel (sp?) will be looking for a new home. We could send Pollard's ending deal along with Fred for him. I seriousley doubt Poartland will be picking up the option on him.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    I have been on a real roller-coaster ride with JT from the moment he got here. When he's good he's very good but Detroit has exposed his mental weakness. Frustrate him and he can destroy the Pacers as quick as anything. Is it maturity or mental toughness? I guess that's what the coaches are paid to determine and I'm not.
    Supposedly he has been playing hurt. He came back too soon it was not mental it was physical. That does not ease the concern of his health of course. But I dont think his mental toughness should be in question. He has shown to be very mentaly tough.

    Some of the game plan was down right stupid. Just bringing it up the floor and handing it to J.O. for the one and done is idiotic. We need to be in the open floor to beat Detroit.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    I doubt Jamal is going anywhere. The Pacers just signed him to a 6 year deal.
    Sorry, I didn't know advertising was illegal here. Someone call the cops!

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by TruWarier
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    I doubt Jamal is going anywhere. The Pacers just signed him to a 6 year deal.
    Good point he will be base year this year.

    Hey if we trade Pollard and Jones for a top notch PG AND keep Jamaal I would be happy as could be. I want us to have 2 good point guards not just one.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Supposedly he has been playing hurt. He came back too soon it was not mental it was physical. That does not ease the concern of his health of course. But I dont think his mental toughness should be in question. He has shown to be very mentaly tough.

    Some of the game plan was down right stupid. Just bringing it up the floor and handing it to J.O. for the one and done is idiotic. We need to be in the open floor to beat Detroit.
    Stupid fouls followed by more stupid fouls = mental weakness in my book. When the coach has to sit you down for the 4th quarter in a crucial game because you're letting your emotions dictate your play you're playing weak.
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    This relationship is going to be interesting. I get soooooooo frustrated with Tinsley's antics at times and then am thoroughly impressed other times. I am concerned about his learning curve though. What is he 26 or 27? His maturity level may never catch up to what this team needs. I think Larry and/or Carlisle can talk to Tins until they are blue in the face and it just goes in one ear and out the other.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    Stupid fouls followed by more stupid fouls = mental weakness in my book. When the coach has to sit you down for the 4th quarter in a crucial game because you're letting your emotions dictate your play you're playing weak.
    We were down 1 with the ball when Rick took Jamaal out. We lost by 9 I dont think Rick had to take him out. I think Rick was stupid for taking him out.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    We need to keep this in perspective, Jamaal only really got to play about 10 games with these guys since his injury, and this was not nearly the same team he was playing with before his injury. The real reason we lost this series was because we did not have chemistry. These guys had not gone through this with this particular group of guys. They did not know what worked and did not work with this lineup. Tinsley did not have enough time to develop chemistry with these guys.

    That's what the regular season is all about. Finding out what works for the team and what does not. But we did not have the luxery of having the regular season to have this group gel. A point guard's job is based on the tendencies of the other players on the team, something that is usually learned during the regular season, something Tinsley did not have the luxery of having.

    And the talk about him not having a jumpshot is bs. Have you all forgotten about the 15-20 points he averaged when he needed to during the regular season (before he was injured). His injury is the real reason he couldn't hit a shot. The reason he got this injury was because he was playing way to many minutes since there wasn't even one regular starter out there. Now that AJ can play, we can play Tinsley 30-35 minutes a game next year and get quality minutes with AJ.

    Tinsley is the perfect point guard for the Pacers, esp. considering that we'll have Ron back. He looks to pass first, which not a bad thing when you have J.O., Ron, and Jackson on the team. And his passing skills are only passed by 3 or 4 other point guards in the league.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Well, Terry's not going anywhere, so who did you have in mind? Starbury?

    When I look at a lineup that includes Jermaine, Artest, and Jackson, my first thought is "we need another guy in the starting five that needs the ball!" I'd love a deadeye shooter off the bench, but that's a different story.
    Rick's offense doesn't require someone like Tinsley to make it run. The others can more or less play either way, but if you give them a 1 who can be a deadly shooter, it makes it tougher on the opposition. Look at what Billups did to us.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Ragnar,

    I love JT as much as you, but in that fourth quarter when everything started going wrong the crowd got really pissed at the refs.

    JT got taken out because he got frustrated, and feeding off of the crowd IMO he grabbed and took a stupid foul.

    I would have benched him as well, he wasnt playing with his brain, he was playing with his heart at that point.

    Thats fine on the street, but not in game number 6 of the ECF
    So you pull him out, have a quick conversation, then put him back in.

    Though I don't think the Pacers could do anything to stop the Pistons last night. Reggie said it in his press conf very well. Very good, physical teams do that. They hang around and hang around and at the end of the games they just wear you down and grab it.

    The '90's Pacers and Knicks both used to do the same thing.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  19. #19

    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    I think JT was out of gas and sync. You don't miss 3 months and comeback ready to play. J.O. was obviously affected by his injuries. Artest if he isn't traded will make a huge difference. We do need to make some changes, but not drastic, we got the pieces. I think our biggest upgrade would be at the center position, DD is not a center but is good fit if the other teams is weak there also.
    Tinsleys injury problems are not the type of chronically injured players (somebody stepped on his foot) hamstring,calf etc. Yes we need to do something, but don't forget we won 61 games a season ago with nearly the same team.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Rick's offense doesn't require someone like Tinsley to make it run. The others can more or less play either way, but if you give them a 1 who can be a deadly shooter, it makes it tougher on the opposition. Look at what Billups did to us.
    So who would you pick? Let's name names here. I don't see anybody out there that would be an improvement on Tinsley. If we're talking AJ, then that's another story.
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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    I've been posting for a while about my problems with Tinsley for this team, as good as he is.

    I'm surprised but, honestly, pretty happy to hear that changes may be in order.

    I agree with Anthem, though. Who? Specific names need to be discussed.

    But, with Tinsley, it's hard to use him at crunch time in big games: inconsistent shooter, inconsistent free throw shooter, not championship level defense, unpredictable emotions and decision making. It's a shame to see someone so good have to sit at the end.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Oh, yeah. I meant to post this last night. I thought it was perhaps a tip-off of a Tinsley trade when Reggie, during the press conference, said the team belonged next year to Jermaine . . . (pause) . . . and Ron . . . and Stephen.

    No mention of Tinsley. For a guy that is holding on to the ball most of the time during the game, and is central to the offense, you think Reggie would have mentioned him. But he does mention Ron, despite all the wild trade speculation going on! I believe that Reggie may have a sense that the "changes" Rick was talking about involve Tinsley.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Jamaal has a poison pill provision and will be a base year player next year. I could see a trade to bring in a new starter but Jamaal will be here next year. He would be almost impossible to trade due to the base year status. It would be a very stupid move on the Pacers part if they trade him.


    VA he was taken out after a Detroit foul not a foul by him. The bottom line is that we were in that game untill the second he took Tinsley out. You can say he made a stupid play all you want but we were in that game. We imediatly went in the ****ter when he was pulled. That was the dumbest coaching move of Ricks career.

    He was playing injured yes he was not as quick as he had been. He tore a ligament in his foot that takes 6 to 9 months to heal. That happaned to my wife in High School and she is astounded he was able to come back so soon.

    He came back early because we were not getting out of the 1st round. Remember we were toast. He came back and he won 2 games in the 2nd round for us. And without him we would not have won a single game aganst Detroit we would have been swept. We would not have even made the second round had he not come back.

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    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    He came back early because we were not getting out of the 1st round. Remember we were toast. He came back and he won 2 games in the 2nd round for us. And without him we would not have won a single game aganst Detroit we would have been swept. We would not have even made the second round had he not come back.
    Exactly!

  25. #25

    Default Re: Montieth: Pacers need to upgrade point guard position

    A Tinsley trade, if there were one, would almost certainly need to involve a team under the cap

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