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Thread: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

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    Default I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Has there ever been a more overrated player in the NBA?!? I mean, really, just think about it.

    Jermaine O'neal gets posterized more than any other player in the league. He waits until someone cutting through the lane goes to the hole, and that's when he makes his move. He never waits and takes the charge. When have you ever seen him take a charge?! It's because he doesn't do dirty work like that. He get's the block and the glory, or get's his fat head put up on another Dwyane Wade poster.

    J.O. is incapable of shutting anyone down. Opposing PF's seem to have good offensive games against the Pacers. This being because he has zero 1-on-1 stopping ability. He get's his 'highlighted' blocked shots when helping out defensively. And how many times do I have to suffer through one of his 'I'll switch over to block Jeff's man' and then whomever he was guarding was left open for a lay-up?!

    Jermaine's offensive game has gone south. Yeah, he's been unhealthy, blah, blah, blah. He had a pretty good offensive year while Ron Artest was out. He did alright for himself. But once again, his rebounding numbers are dipping. It's like he's dropping 1 rebound per year. One year, it's 10, the next, it's 9, the next, it's 8. What is happening is he is falling more and more in love with that 15 foot jumper, and so he's not getting any offensive rebounds.

    Yeah, Jermaine can knock down that 15 foot jumper if he's on. When O'neal is hitting, he is one of the most lethal players in the league. But when he's not hitting, he is one of the most pigheaded, selfish, shot jacking assclowns in the league. I've suffered through so many of these games where JO thinks that if he just keeps shooting jump shots that eventually they'll fall.

    O'neal's problem is that he doesn't have trust. He doesn't trust his teammates. I've seen where he's being double-teamed or even triple-teamed and Miller or Jackson would be wide open and instead, he pulls up a turn around jumper that barely clanks rim. If you can't trust your teammates, then what good are you?

    Jermaine O'neal grew into a franchise role. He's gotten comfortable there and if Indiana is ever going to grow into a championship team, he is gunna have to get off his high horse and pass the damn ball or move on. I know alot of teams would take him and be willing to give us a lesser known PF that doesn't mind passing the ball.

    And for my last stab at O'neal, how many people here believe that if O'neal was in the West, he'd be a star? I don't. If he was in the West, he'd be just another player. Truth hurts sometimes. This is coming from a die hard Pacers fan that can see O'neal for what he really is; a spoiled kid.

    Just my thoughts.

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    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    AGREED

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    I am sorry but I disagree. JO needs more time in his career. He is a solid person to have, which is the first thing that is important for a team. As far as trusting teammates, he trusts Reggie a lot. I am saying htis after watching NBA League Pass for the past 4 years. I have never seen him hesitate passing to Reggie.

    I keep stressing on this but when JO's concentration level and focus are high, he is one hell of a player. He will mature in a year or two and he will understand that his concentration level and focus should be high every night.

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Apparently the only person in Indiana who thinks JO is a franchise player is Reggie miller.....

    I'll defer to Reggie on this. If he says its JO's team, Its JO's team.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    That entire post was ridiculous.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    That entire post was ridiculous.
    BINGO

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    I did not read the post, I need a little time to think to get a little perspective

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    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    too lame to reply to.

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    That's the thing that bothers me. It's alway, 'In a year or two' with him. We've been saying that enough. And maybe passing to Reggie, and that's it. He never passes the ball off when he's being doubled. He just spins to an off balanced jumper that clanks iron. If he would pass the ball more, then I'd be more apt to like him.

    Also, if he would take some charges, get some steals, and be more of a 1-on-1 defender. I think the system Indiana uses makes O'neal look more than he is. If the Pacers didn't dump the ball down low to him all the time, would he still get his points?

    If Jermaine didn't step out to shoot 15 foot jumpers all the time, would he get more rebounds? Jermaine use to dominate the boards and now he's becoming more and more accustomed to standing out there and letting the opposing teams bring in defensive boards. He's hell on the defensive boards for the Pacers, but seamingly does nothing for us with offensive boards. Extra possessions are key and it's time he learns that.

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    3ptmiller
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    AGREED

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Hey, I realize that people disagree with me, and that's fine with me. I'm just saying what I think. If my post is to lame to reply to, then why do you reply to it? I'm not out to start any wars with anyone, so we can leave our respective tsks to ourselves and back our posts with substance and not slanderous remarks.

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    3ptmiller
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by Fig Newton
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    That's the thing that bothers me. It's alway, 'In a year or two' with him. We've been saying that enough. And maybe passing to Reggie, and that's it. He never passes the ball off when he's being doubled. He just spins to an off balanced jumper that clanks iron. If he would pass the ball more, then I'd be more apt to like him.

    Also, if he would take some charges, get some steals, and be more of a 1-on-1 defender. I think the system Indiana uses makes O'neal look more than he is. If the Pacers didn't dump the ball down low to him all the time, would he still get his points?

    If Jermaine didn't step out to shoot 15 foot jumpers all the time, would he get more rebounds? Jermaine use to dominate the boards and now he's becoming more and more accustomed to standing out there and letting the opposing teams bring in defensive boards. He's hell on the defensive boards for the Pacers, but seamingly does nothing for us with offensive boards. Extra possessions are key and it's time he learns that.
    And Reggie was kind enough to deffer to him alot last years... and there we lost all our hopes that Reggie had nothing left... that he was old... etc. Then he prooved everybody wrong and made us look like jackasses and we suddenly started winning games and had huge effort & performance from every player on there... then JO came back from suspension & injury and Reggie started defering again and if im gona be honest, everything went downwards from there...

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Yeah downwards, like winning a playoff series. Damn that sucked.

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by Fig Newton
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    Hey, I realize that people disagree with me, and that's fine with me. I'm just saying what I think. If my post is to lame to reply to, then why do you reply to it? I'm not out to start any wars with anyone, so we can leave our respective tsks to ourselves and back our posts with substance and not slanderous remarks.
    Come on now. After THAT post, you are telling US to respond with 'substance, not slander'? Not only is your logic absurd, in which you use a few choice examples to to represent Jermaine's overall game, but you are incredibly biased and hateful towards Jermaine (assclown?). Unless you come up with something that is more reasonable, and less bull-headed, I don't blame anyone for deeming your post 'lame'.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ptmiller
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    And Reggie was kind enough to deffer to him alot last years... and there we lost all our hopes that Reggie had nothing left... that he was old... etc. Then he prooved everybody wrong and made us look like jackasses and we suddenly started winning games and had huge effort & performance from every player on there... then JO came back from suspension & injury and Reggie started defering again and if im gona be honest, everything went downwards from there...


    Dude, atleast on Reggie's last gamenight, post like Reggie went out, with some class. Give JO some credit, the guy is injured. He needs to improve on a lot of things but things take time. The Detroit team that you see now took time to assemble. You have to be patient and just not point fingers. JO, Jamal and Sjax have made mistakes during the series and they will learn from it.

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ptmiller
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    And Reggie was kind enough to deffer to him alot last years... and there we lost all our hopes that Reggie had nothing left... that he was old... etc. Then he prooved everybody wrong and made us look like jackasses and we suddenly started winning games and had huge effort & performance from every player on there... then JO came back from suspension & injury and Reggie started defering again and if im gona be honest, everything went downwards from there...
    I'll be honest with ya, I was one of those people that said Reggie was washed up, had nothing left, and should have retired 3 years ago. But Reggie proved me wrong. He made me feel like the fool I was for all the aweful things I said about him. And on this night, I shed a tear for Reggie. Partly because his legacy is over without him having a ring, and partly because of the ignorant things I had said about him.

    The chemistry we developed with Reggie and Jack before JO came back was really good. I kinda thought we would have beaten Boston better if we were still using that game plan. But when JO came back, the offense shifted back to him, and Reggie began passing up shots. JO said he wouldn't change the offense, but he couldn't help it. He got the ball down low and Reggie's unbelievable play went back to him being in the backlight.

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    Come on now. After THAT post, you are telling US to respond with 'substance, not slander'? Not only is your logic absurd, in which you use a few choice examples to to represent Jermaine's overall game, but you are incredibly biased and hateful towards Jermaine (assclown?). Unless you come up with something that is more reasonable, and less bull-headed, I don't blame anyone for deeming your post 'lame'.
    Touche', harsh criticism deserving another.

    If I say Jermaine is an immature crotch pheasant, he won't be sending me a message calling me a dirty douche bag. You standing up for him and calling my post 'lame', is being slanderous to me, and thus prevoking me to defend my own rights. I love this site, and don't want this to become something I don't want it to be, so I'll say, I'm sorry for the absurdness in my post, my rant became a little to testy, in which I never intended to offend anyone, just simply spark a debate.

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Right after being eliminated it is hard for me to talk objectively about subjects like this. I disagree with your premise and will only say for now all team leaders on contenders are doubted until they win a championship or retire.

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian
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    Right after being eliminated it is hard for me to talk objectively about subjects like this. I disagree with your premise and will only say for now all team leaders on contenders are doubted until they win a championship or retire.
    Well said. And maybe if we're all lucky, next year, I'll look like the idiot I am for saying all these nasty horrible things about JO, when the Pacers bring home the trophy.

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by Fig Newton
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    Touche', harsh criticism deserving another.

    If I say Jermaine is an immature crotch pheasant, he won't be sending me a message calling me a dirty douche bag. You standing up for him and calling my post 'lame', is being slanderous to me, and thus prevoking me to defend my own rights. I love this site, and don't want this to become something I don't want it to be, so I'll say, I'm sorry for the absurdness in my post, my rant became a little to testy, in which I never intended to offend anyone, just simply spark a debate.
    It's all good, I think we are all a bit testy after that game. Sorry for being a bit harsh there.


    Although, I will say I don't consider saying someone's post is lame to be slanderous. Not tactful, obviously, but I think slander would be more like "That was lame, you are stupider than my pet gerbil."

    But I'm probably wrong here.
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    3ptmiller
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerwaala
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    Dude, atleast on Reggie's last gamenight, post like Reggie went out, with some class. Give JO some credit, the guy is injured. He needs to improve on a lot of things but things take time. The Detroit team that you see now took time to assemble. You have to be patient and just not point fingers. JO, Jamal and Sjax have made mistakes during the series and they will learn from it.
    Class means nothing if u aint honest, then its only a lie...

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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    It's all good, I think we are all a bit testy after that game. Sorry for being a bit harsh there.


    Although, I will say I don't consider saying someone's post is lame to be slanderous. Not tactful, obviously, but I think slander would be more like "That was lame, you are stupider than my pet gerbil."

    But I'm probably wrong here.
    It's probably me being to sensitive. My own emotions have gotten me in trouble in the past and so I've been trying to not take things said to seriously. We, the internet community, tend to take things out of proportion to often. Just as my wording on a few things in my original post have, sometimes we word things wrong, and sometimes we take things wrong. My goal was never to make anyone mad at me, but our emotions are all running wild after tonight, and my timing for such a post was pretty bad. My apologies about it all, but I do thank you for being cool about it and accepting my flaws.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    My how quickly we forget.

    Let's be fair to JO here for a second. Who remembers the stretch of play he put on between the time he came back from suspension on Dec 25th, and the time he got injured on March 3rd? I'll do the math for you. JO averaged 27 ppg during the 33 games in that span. Not only that he had several monster games in that stretch, going for 35+ several times, including his huge 55 pointer on Jan 4th. After coming back early from the injury, it was too much to expect the same type of production. When JO comes back healthy next season, I think then you can probably expect it.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Was this thread started before or after the game?

    Jermaine had a great game tonight.
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'll say it, I DON'T think Jermaine is our franchise player

    Fig,
    I'm still inclined to agree with you more than disagree but this probably isn't the time for me to have this discussion. Tossing JO out with the trash probably isn't the answer but JO is at best a complimentary player at this point in his career. He can talk a good game but until he learns to share the ball, make quicker decisions, and keep his head in the game (all consistently) then I'm afraid I am going to have problems with him. This season the stars aligned for him to take his game to the next level and show that all this effort and growing pains of the past had indeed been worth it. It could truly be 'his' team. I don't think he showed that at all.

    Let's not pretend JO before the injury was on a tear. He wasn't. He had some higher scoring games but he didn't necessarily shoot a good percentage to do it. More importantly, the team wasn't winning. More times than not he would shrink from the occassion. I know he's been injured but that injury just makes his refusal to pass out of double and triple teams, to force the ball, to shoot fadeaways all the more glaring as a deficit in his game. I don't think it is too much to ask that the face of the franchise circa 2005 make his teammates better and take pressure off of them. Did the JO we saw most games this season make his teammates better or take pressure off of them? I have to say 'no'.

    Many times he was putting them behind the 8 ball by shooting woeful percentages and stalling the offense in the process. His lack of blocking out gave the other teams second chance opportunites. Few were the times where he got his teammates open looks by passing out of doubleteams to the open man. His 'highlight' defense was usually good (blocks) but his regular defense sometimes left things to be desired. It is not always the highlight reel plays that matter... it is most times the little things that really matter. And one of these days people will realize the little things aren't really so little. They matter. A lot.

    OTOH, games like tonight show he can be effective... but we saw too little of that this season.

    I know some are going to blame coach Carlisle for a lot of this. I have some thoughts on this as well but perhaps I should save them. As I said, tonight probably isn't the best time to get into some of this.

    I'll just end by saying we have some Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde happening with this team and we will need to be getting that figured out and under control before we can hope to beat the Pistons in a best of 7 game playoff series.

    -Bball
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