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Thread: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

  1. #126
    Administrator Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by BornIndy07 View Post
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    But the Spurs retired a players number who did that all the time...

    And I do think Pachulia had intent
    Yeah, kinda hard to feel bad for Pop when he had Bruce Bowen doing dirty crap for him for years.


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  3. #127
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    We have people lamenting the lack of physicality in the NBA today, waxing poetic about the 90s and "enforcers", and then calling Zaza Pachulia dirty and lambasting Bruce Bowen.

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  5. #128
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    We have people lamenting the lack of physicality in the NBA today, waxing poetic about the 90s and "enforcers", and then calling Zaza Pachulia dirty and lambasting Bruce Bowen.
    Because... narrative. The outcome you wanted to see determines your bias.

    If it were Curry or Durant getting hurt the same people would have a totally different opinion.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  6. #129
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Because... narrative. The outcome you wanted to see determines your bias.

    If it were Curry or Durant getting hurt the same people would have a totally different opinion.
    Of course. GSW would no longer be a Superteam...


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

  7. #130
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Of course. GSW would no longer be a Superteam...
    That should not affect your opinion on how dirty or appropriate the play was.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  8. #131

    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by BornIndy07 View Post
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    But the Spurs retired a players number who did that all the time...

    And I do think Pachulia had intent
    Which is why I don't have any sympathy for anything associated with the Spurs outside of Kawhi in this situation.

  9. #132
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    How terrible the Spurs will lose this series because of old clumsy Za za. I remember his accidental elbows from his Atlanta days.


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    Or that time he crushed Westbrook with a screen at mid court.

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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    We have people lamenting the lack of physicality in the NBA today, waxing poetic about the 90s and "enforcers", and then calling Zaza Pachulia dirty and lambasting Bruce Bowen.
    I'm not in either one of those groups, but I will say there was a huge difference from physical play and purposefully trying to injure a player.

    BTW, today's game has a higher percentage of purposeful acts to injure another player per physical play. In part that's because there is far, far less physicality. But also because guys aren't getting that physical energy out every play. The game doesn't have to be football. I just wish it wasn't ballet. Ok, maybe I do lament the lack of physicality...
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

  11. #134

    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Or that time he crushed Westbrook with a screen at mid court.
    Pachulia is funny as hell. The stare down is too funny. When he did the dance in Boston after hitting the jump shot is priceless

  12. #135
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    This is ugly already.

  13. #136
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Simmons is about to get PAID this off season

  14. #137
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    LMA is throwing the game lmao

  15. #138

    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    This series is a joke

  16. #139
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Tough to say whether Zaza on Kawhi was intentional or clumsiness - it was definitely a foul...

    But talking about physical play - f ex this is what I want to see in basketball court : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQgnwcHg8ZY

    The small guys shouldn't feel free to run around the court without caution. Westbrook initiates a contact and expects Zaza to meekly surrender the space??? Nah, he comes at you - you flatline him. That's fair. Best way to take that boring pick-&-roll away This is how defense should handle every player who tries to create by dribbling. Move WITHOUT a ball and create by passing....

  17. #140
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Superteams now 18-0 in the playoffs.

  18. #141
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    LMA is throwing the game lmao
    San Antonio has mastered the draft, but their free agency record is still a little sketchy.

  19. #142
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    We have people lamenting the lack of physicality in the NBA today, waxing poetic about the 90s and "enforcers", and then calling Zaza Pachulia dirty and lambasting Bruce Bowen.
    There's a difference between physical play and dirty play.

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  21. #143
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    There's a difference between physical play and dirty play.
    Yes, this Zaza/Kawhi -case was most definitely not PHYSICAL play. It was either a dirty play or unfortunate clumsy play.

    But the afore-mentioned "knockout" Zaza laid on Westbrook was a proper PHYSICAL play. That's something we should see more of. Much more...

  22. #144

    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    The problem with these discussions is that they are so tribal.

    Bruce Bowen was dirty, so, IMHO was Zaza's play. One doesn't negate the other. And yes, there's a difference between physical and dirty.

    Larry Bird with Bill Simmons (at the 18:20 mark) talking about Bill Laimbeer, dirty play, and stepping under ankles:


    Looks like Aldrige took the Bird approach to dealing with the situation BTW.

  23. #145
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    That should not affect your opinion on how dirty or appropriate the play was.
    I don't think it was a dirty play. I just think it was clumsy *** center who had no business closing out on a shooter. It is what it is. People want to call it a "dirty" play, but how many times does he even get a CHANCE to be a dirty player on a perimeter player? Bruce Bowen is different, because he was perimeter defender. He had a chance to pull that "tactic" multiple times in a single game. A dirty play for Zaza would be something like giving an elbow to a player coming into paint, blocking the face while pretending to make a play on the ball, or setting VERY hard screens in pick and roll plays.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

  24. #146
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    A dirty play for Zaza would be something like giving an elbow to a player coming into paint, blocking the face while pretending to make a play on the ball, or setting VERY hard screens in pick and roll plays.
    None of those things are dirty, they are physical plays. If an opponent with a ball gives you a chance to cause concussion with a "baskatball play", you should hunt them everytime. Make them timid, make them afraid of even touching the ball...

  25. #147
    Administrator Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    A dirty play is a play made with intent to significantly injure. Stepping under a player that's coming down, twisting/pulling a player's arm/leg during a tie-up, nutshots...those are dirty plays.

  26. #148
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    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    A dirty play is a play made with intent to significantly injure. Stepping under a player that's coming down, twisting/pulling a player's arm/leg during a tie-up, nutshots...those are dirty plays.
    I understand that, but I still don't think this particular incident was dirty. His idea of a closeout was "scooting" towards the player with his arm outstretched, lol. It really was just an unfortunate clumsy play. There are basketball reasons why bigs are considered a bad matchup against perimeter players outside of the paint. And Shaq can stop pretending that bigs do that on a regular basis...he irritated me so bad with his comments.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

  27. #149

    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio



  28. #150

    Default Re: 2017 Western Conference Finals: (1) Golden State vs. (2) San Antonio

    http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/05/16/...ssed-the-line/

    Bruce Bowen: Zaza Pachulia crossed the line


    Spurs coach Gregg Popovich ranted against Zaza Pachulia for his injury-causing closeout of Kawhi Leonard and Pachulia’s seemingly dirty history – which prompted one major question:

    How could the man who coached and defended Bruce Bowen be so sanctimonious?

    Well, Bowen burst right through that irony, too.

    Bowen, via Mike Monroe of Bleacher Report:

    “Well, I used to hate it when people called me dirty. I thought it was unfair when people just piggyback on what other people say. And I still do.”

    But Bowen has no sympathy whatsoever for Pachulia.

    “That play? I’ve watched it and, yeah, I thought he took an extra step,” he said. “Plenty of time to stop where he did, but he continued moving in that direction of Kawhi. That seems like it’s intentional and it’s definitely dangerous.”

    “What was his intent?” Bowen said. “You can re-wind something five times and convince yourself of anything. What I saw, he kept moving in that direction after he contested the shot. You know you have to let a player come down. He kept walking into that space, so, for me, that says more about the intent.”

    “I don’t know what is going to happen to Zaza,” Bowen said, “but if that had been me, I know what would have happened: suspension.”

    I was with Bowen until that last line. He kicked Wally Szczerbiak in the face:


    …and got only a fine. There was no plot to unduly punish Bowen.

    Bowen is probably still partial to the Spurs, with whom he won three championships and who retired his number. Popovich is obviously loyal to San Antonio.

    They have neither objectivity nor the moral high ground. But, in this case, they’re right. Pachulia was dirty.

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