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Thread: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    I have not read anyone elses posts yet, but I can imagine the refs are a big topic of conversation. I refuse to talk about the refs, they did not decide the game, they did not even negatively influence the game. The Pistons played a very good game, dominated and deserved the win.

    Two worries prior to the game today: Billups posting Tinsley, and Sheed being aggressive. Well both of those two things happened.

    Let me start with Sheed. Yes he is very unselfish, yes he is a great team player, and yes he only wants to win. But if I were a Pistons fan he would frustrate me a little. He is so talented. In fact I think he is more talented than J.O. He can shoot threes, he can post up, he can shoot the midrange shot, he is a good passer, he is a decent ball handler. Defensively, he is very underrated, well I'll say it right now, he is as good a defender overall as Ben Wallace and he is a much better one-on-one low post defender. And his help defense is almost as good as Ben's.

    Sheed defended J.O extremely well and if you notice the first play Ben defended J.O he was able to back him into the lane and score rather easily. Anytime Sheed is aggressive I get very concerned as a Pacer fan.

    Billups: He was able to post up Tinsley with ease, was able to get right under the basket, and really controlled the whole game.


    What I want to get to though is this, We can talk about every aspect of a basketball game, but sometimes it does just come down to making shots.

    The Pistons made a defensive adjustment for game #4. They decided to pack it in more, cut off all pentration, trap Tinsley more often, crowd the lane and force the Pacers to shoot threes. I've never seen so many wide open three today by the Pacers. Too bad they went 1 of 17 while the game was still in doubt.

    If the Pacers had gone 6 of 17, that is 15 more points and the whole game is different. I thought the Pacers played hard, they just could not hit any outside shots. And that to me was the biggest difference in this game.

    One sure sign the Pacers are in trouble is when they have to go small and play JJ at power forward or god forbit Croshere at power forward, that is a sure sign of desperation. But you know what the Pacers had no choice, when you trail by 15 the whole game DD and Jeff really are unable to contribute, you need some offense. But of course then you see Ben start to get offensive rebounds and you start to see the Pacers interior defense break down.

    The series it still tied 2-2, Pacers can still win this series, in fact I would not be a bit surprised to see the Pacers win game #5 and lose game #6.

    Is there a worse feeling than to see the opposing team celebrating on the Pacers home court.

    I'm off to read other threads where I'm sure the refs will be crucified and J.O will be criticized.

  2. #2
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    I disagree with you about the refs, UB. They had a very negative impact on the game. Every time we scraped back from a deficit, they squeltched it with one bad/missed call after another, benefitting the Pistons far more than not. With that said...

    We lost because we settled for jumpers, and didn't hit them. JO was passive, and Reg became passive after missing his first 4 shots. Jack and Tins played okay, but nobody else really made an impact.

    We can play MUCH better. Will we?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I have not read anyone elses posts yet, but I can imagine the refs are a big topic of conversation. I refuse to talk about the refs, they did not decide the game, they did not even negatively influence the game. The Pistons played a very good game, dominated and deserved the win.

    Two worries prior to the game today: Billups posting Tinsley, and Sheed being aggressive. Well both of those two things happened.

    Let me start with Sheed. Yes he is very unselfish, yes he is a great team player, and yes he only wants to win. But if I were a Pistons fan he would frustrate me a little. He is so talented. In fact I think he is more talented than J.O. He can shoot threes, he can post up, he can shoot the midrange shot, he is a good passer, he is a decent ball handler. Defensively, he is very underrated, well I'll say it right now, he is as good a defender overall as Ben Wallace and he is a much better one-on-one low post defender. And his help defense is almost as good as Ben's.

    Sheed defended J.O extremely well and if you notice the first play Ben defended J.O he was able to back him into the lane and score rather easily. Anytime Sheed is aggressive I get very concerned as a Pacer fan.

    Billups: He was able to post up Tinsley with ease, was able to get right under the basket, and really controlled the whole game.


    What I want to get to though is this, We can talk about every aspect of a basketball game, but sometimes it does just come down to making shots.

    The Pistons made a defensive adjustment for game #4. They decided to pack it in more, cut off all pentration, trap Tinsley more often, crowd the lane and force the Pacers to shoot threes. I've never seen so many wide open three today by the Pacers. Too bad they went 1 of 17 while the game was still in doubt.

    If the Pacers had gone 6 of 17, that is 15 more points and the whole game is different. I thought the Pacers played hard, they just could not hit any outside shots. And that to me was the biggest difference in this game.

    One sure sign the Pacers are in trouble is when they have to go small and play JJ at power forward or god forbit Croshere at power forward, that is a sure sign of desperation. But you know what the Pacers had no choice, when you trail by 15 the whole game DD and Jeff really are unable to contribute, you need some offense. But of course then you see Ben start to get offensive rebounds and you start to see the Pacers interior defense break down.

    The series it still tied 2-2, Pacers can still win this series, in fact I would not be a bit surprised to see the Pacers win game #5 and lose game #6.

    Is there a worse feeling than to see the opposing team celebrating on the Pacers home court.

    I'm off to read other threads where I'm sure the refs will be crucified and J.O will be criticized.
    After watching Sheed for awhile, I'm absolutely convinced there aren't 5 players in the league who have a greater skill-set Rasheed Wallace has. You touched on all of it. There's nothing he can't do. He can do more things than Jermaine. In fact, other than Garnett, I'm not sure what other players have a greater skill set than Sheed.

    The thing about Sheed is that he's content to just be a good player, a borderline all-star. Players like Jermaine & Garnett aren't.

    I've just learned to live with it. You know what you're getting with Sheed, and the positives far outweigh the negatives.

  4. #4
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    That James guy with Cleveland has some pretty good skills.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Rasheed has MVP type talent. There is no way that guy should average less than 25 points per game, it's sickening what an amazing waste of talent that guy's body is

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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan
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    That James guy with Cleveland has some pretty good skills.
    And you could also say that about Kobe, T-Mac, Dwyane Wade and probably some others I'm forgetting.

    But Sheed's skills rank right up there, especially for a big man. UB's 3rd paragraph describes him perfectly. He's just not comfortable being the man. Just wants to be a complementary part on a good team.

    Him and Detroit is a perfect marriage, in I'm sure more ways than one to Pacer fans.

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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Sheed would be a great player if he could bring it more often than he does.

    And, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I liked seeing JJ at the 4.
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Not hitting shots, not getting defensive rebounds, and bad officiating definitely contributed to our loss in that order. But I think those Jamaal turnovers absolutely killed us and our momentum.

    Check the boxscore score from yahoo.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2005051511

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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Rasheed has the most complete game of any big man in the NBA. I wouldn't say if he used it he'd be better than TD or Garnett, but he has the offensive skills of Dirk and the defensive skills of KG.

    Halfcourt execution. Bottom line. The execution in the halfcourt was very bad tonight. The only play that worked at all was the drive-and-pitch and then the shots didn't fall. The Pistons just clogged everything down inside. It was the bumping, holding and grabbing, etc we've seen from great defensive teams and since you weren't hitting your shots they could pack it in a little more.

    The adjustments I'd make for Indy are:

    1) Cut down the TO's - duh
    2) Reverse the ball. The Pistons were very vulnerable to quick ball reversal several times but the ball didn't get reversed
    3) Play Foster more - the O-Boards the Pistons got in the 4th killed whatever slim chance you had for a comeback
    4) This isn't really an adjustment but you have to hit at least a few shots to soften the middle
    5) JO needs to pass like he did in G 7 vs Boston. Detroit shaded him a lot early - then quit after a while. But they still kept the middle full and a pass-out could have helped (though with the way you were shooting, maybe not)
    6) Billups killed you - I don't have a great solution for that - when a big man hedged out Rasheed went to the corner. He did that Friday too but tonight he hit his shots.
    7) More discipline in the halfcourt - mostly this is on Tinsley. He tried to be spectacular too often and it usually ended up being a TO
    8) I was disappointed in JJ's passing up open three's several times - maybe he would've bricked 'em too but brick one first before you quit
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  10. #10

    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    The series it still tied 2-2, Pacers can still win this series, in fact I would not be a bit surprised to see the Pacers win game #5 and lose game #6.
    I couldn't agree more.

    Did anybody really expect the Pacers to win this game?

    It was a game they should win.
    It was a home game.
    It was a game that could take pressure off of them.
    Rasheed guaranteed a victory.
    and...

    IT WASN'T A PRIME NUMBER!!!!

  11. #11
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    2) Reverse the ball. The Pistons were very vulnerable to quick ball reversal several times but the ball didn't get reversed
    This is my pet peeve. Rick said days ago that we have to attack their weak side, but no, he ends up calling iso's for half the game.
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    Member Mr. Pink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    I wish O'neal could embrace Rasheed's role. JO isn't ready to be the dominating player he wants to be. He'd help this team out a lot more if he would accept the TEAM role, instead of the ALL-STAR role.

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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Another adjustment I would make is taking less three's and attacking the bucket more. There was a time during the first half where we should like 5 three's for every jumper. That's not gonna cut it!

    That block by Ben Wallace on JO early in the 1st quarter set the tone. I think that play had a big impact on how we were going to play. You didn't see Tinsley really dominate the way he did, because Ben was focused from the start. No one really attacked the basket after that block.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    UB, I agree it comes down to making shots. Especially in a game like today where we were not going to get any calls inside.

    The only way to win these games is knock down the open jumper. Our team failed to execute and lost. The refs didn't lose it, but they certainly didn't give us any benefit of the doubt calls.

    Our team, as per usual, CAN NOT WIN THE BIG HOME GAME!!! Only once in our history can I ever remember us getting the big home game and this was a game 5 against Milwaukee in our NBA Finals Run. We may have done it against the Knicks as well, but don't recall.

    We ALWAYS CHOKE when we have a chance to strangle the other team. Just as Hicks pointed out on Fri/Sat thread!

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  15. #15
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Late last night I went back and watched the first and third quarters of the game, and my initial analyze was a little off. Turnovers killed us. Right after Pacers cut it to 6 in the 3rd, Jamaal had two straight turnovers and then J.O was clearly fouled and no call.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    Back in the late-1990s, before Sheed's problems with the refs 'took over' his game, he was clearly a top-five talent. And he hasn't really lost that talent, but it took Larry Brown to 'channel' it.

    As long as he's not locked-in on the refs, the only PF in the league that's clearly better is Duncan (although I usually consider KG as SF since he's so soft). I'm not sure if I think JO is better than Rasheed, I think JO is better in the post offensively, which is the most telling criteria, but 'Sheed is better at just about everything else and Sheed doesn't hesitate to use his body. JO's added the twenty pounds to get to 260 but he's playing like he's back at 230. Now I know the shoulder injury is a variable, this isn't a 'call-out' on JO but its true that he's playing softer than we'd all like to see.
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  17. #17
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    I have to think the shoulder injury is still bothering him.

    Don't forget the last we heard it will take 8 months for it to heal completely

  18. #18

    Default Re: Sometimes it does come down to just hitting shots.

    I was shocked when I read the box score........we shot 37% from the field and the Piston's shot 40%!!! I would have thought the ratio would have been more like 25% to 45%.... It was a very crappy game to watch, the Pacers inisisted on shooting what the Piston's were giving them, primarily long outside jump shots and were flat out terrible at hitting anything. Tinsley had a poor game, seemed like he was trying to get things rolling but just kept turning the ball over on his drives. I didn't see alot of ball movement......just JO taking low percentage shots from outside the key. He was flat out terrible last night. Passive play from most players.....except for Mr. Jackson. They won't shoot this poorly every night.Thank God. The offense was on cruise control from the opening tip-off. Not alot of effort and too much iso crap.
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